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  • tylerthegloob
  • The Legend

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    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
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Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2020, 09:10:41 am »
previously unsaid sentences in human history
damn, beat me to it
more gg more skill


Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2020, 11:39:25 am »
I wouldn't be so condescending. As someone who has lived in the DPRK and to an extent makes a living out of exposing the workings of the regime, I hope you take no offense when I say that she's a hell of a lot more of an authority on the subject than you or I. Regardless, she confirmed what I'd already suspected. Your analogy of Germany and Russia couldn't be more incorrect either. Germany has other alternatives for oil. The DPRK is sanctioned when it comes to oil, Germany isn't. The DPRK has no real means to get any significant amount of oil from anywhere else other than China.
Germany would still face major economic disruption. You could also apply a similar standard to a host of countries.

Anyways, I trust Yeonmi Park to speak authoritatively as much as I trust Ayaan Hirsi Ali to speak authoritatively on Islam, which is to say, not at all. Celebrity figures pushed by various entities in service of an agenda, particularly those with little experience in power, are incredibly unreliable sources.

Believing she has the inside scoop would require me to believe that a person who was the child of someone working as a civil servant in Omaha, Nebraska and defected at 13, would know the inner workings of the US govt, including trade, defense, intelligence, and so on and that post-defection, various authoritative sources would use her as an outlet for sensitive information that could be traced back to them. Someone they have no relationship with and seems to open her mouth and blabs whatever. If anything, such a person would be a prime candidate for DISINFORMATION.


Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2020, 12:09:32 pm »
Germany would still face major economic disruption. You could also apply a similar standard to a host of countries.

Anyways, I trust Yeonmi Park to speak authoritatively as much as I trust Ayaan Hirsi Ali to speak authoritatively on Islam, which is to say, not at all. Celebrity figures pushed by various entities in service of an agenda, particularly those with little experience in power, are incredibly unreliable sources.

Believing she has the inside scoop would require me to believe that a person who was the child of someone working as a civil servant in Omaha, Nebraska and defected at 13, would know the inner workings of the US govt, including trade, defense, intelligence, and so on and that post-defection, various authoritative sources would use her as an outlet for sensitive information that could be traced back to them. Someone they have no relationship with and seems to open her mouth and blabs whatever. If anything, such a person would be a prime candidate for DISINFORMATION.

And you're an ESL teacher. What makes you more knowledgable on the subject?

You're putting out some ultra crap analogies too. I do agree that in this case, only an idiot would take the information from a single source as truth, particularly when it comes to a secretive dictatorship. Again, I believe certain things she says because she's not the first person I've heard say it and logically, it makes sense. She wants to wear tight tops on YouTube? That's her choice, she's doing what she wants to make a living. She might have an agenda to get more views, this doesn't mean her appearance or agenda is going to completely discredit what she has to say, particularly if one weighs it up against prior knowledge or other sources to formulate an intelligent opinion.

Would the DPRK regime survive if China decided to cut off relations and trade? No, the regime is at the mercy of the CCP, ipso facto, the DPRK is a vassal state and her dear leader, and future dear leader, will have to answer to the CCP.



  • hangook77
  • The Legend

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    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2020, 12:28:29 pm »
It's no coincidence the most popular North Korean defector is also the hottest. In her latest video and many others she's in tight clothing showing cleavage. She makes loads of money on Patreon. (Attractive women have a huge advantage; they get the red carpet treatment.) That said, she seems like a nice person. I think rather than just telling people what they want to hear "China is bad!" she's sincere in her speculation / assertion ... or maybe I'm just hypnotized by her beauty. But this  is wrong: 

November was the second straight month China exported no diesel or gasoline to North Korea. 

https://in.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-trade-northkorea-idINKBN1EK0FB

North Korea also sources some of its oil from Russia.

I think she was doing this before she turned it into a patreon and more money making, dressing sexy spiel she's been on the last 2 or 3 years.  (Her look is more put on with makeup and clothes than natural beauty anyhow.  She looks good, but it is a put on look.  I have known some natural beauties in my life.  So, it has kind of ruined me?  Made me picky.)  Sure, she is cashing in more recently.  But she was speaking out on this stuff several years ago before she 'monetized' her opposition.  Doesn't make her wrong though.  (However, she has said she's married like a billion times.  You don't have a nice apartment in downtown Chicago without making money or being married to someone who does.  All the lame guys who keep going on her page and asking her to marry them.  Ha ha,  Lame.) 


Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2020, 12:57:07 pm »
And you're an ESL teacher. What makes you more knowledgable on the subject?

You're putting out some ultra crap analogies too. I do agree that in this case, only an idiot would take the information from a single source as truth, particularly when it comes to a secretive dictatorship. Again, I believe certain things she says because she's not the first person I've heard say it and logically, it makes sense. She wants to wear tight tops on YouTube? That's her choice, she's doing what she wants to make a living. She might have an agenda to get more views, this doesn't mean her appearance or agenda is going to completely discredit what she has to say, particularly if one weighs it up against prior knowledge or other sources to formulate an intelligent opinion.

Would the DPRK regime survive if China decided to cut off relations and trade? No, the regime is at the mercy of the CCP, ipso facto, the DPRK is a vassal state and her dear leader, and future dear leader, will have to answer to the CCP.


I'd like to point out that I was the only person who way back when called out the claim of "Seoul destroyed in hours by NK artillery, 250k dead" as a crock of shit. You didn't need to be an "expert" to notice this, just have knowledge of things like counter-battery fire, sustained rate of fire, dud rate, relative inaccuracy of artillery, historical effectiveness of mass bombardments, understanding that the entire pop. of Seoul isn't just going to stand around in open air, etc. Of course various outlets and experts proclaimed this to be true and people lapped it up.

Also, other experts have described the NK-Chinese relationship as much more frosty and complicated.

Also, I never took issue with her dress, only her position which indicates she would NOT have access to high-level info out of NK, which is already notoriously unreliable. I mean, she makes Ahmed Chalabi look like someone with his finger on the pulse of the state of affairs.

Anyways, if NK really is China's vassal at their mercy, why was Kim Jong Nam assassinated? Why are there 100k+ troops along the NK border? Think they're there as a show of solidarity? "Being useful" as a foil and areas of mutual agreement are not the same thing as a vassal or staunch ally.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 01:01:28 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2020, 01:32:36 pm »
Also, I never took issue with her dress, only her position which indicates she would NOT have access to high-level info out of NK, which is already notoriously unreliable. I mean, she makes Ahmed Chalabi look like someone with his finger on the pulse of the state of affairs.

She escaped when she wasn't much more than a kid, yes. So, are you saying she stopped gathering information about the regime after her escape? You're telling me there came a point we she decided "Ok, I'm only going to rely on what I saw and experienced as a child." She probably had countless meetings and interviews with other defectors, corroborated their accounts and researched a bunch of other stuff AFTER she defected and had more freedom to pursue said information. You can make the claim that relying solely on her childhood experiences, she might not have the strongest opinion, but she doesn't rely solely on these experiences, you don't know what other knowledge she's accrued over the years.

Anyways, if NK really is China's vassal at their mercy, why was Kim Jong Nam assassinated? Why are there 100k+ troops along the NK border? Think they're there as a show of solidarity? "Being useful" as a foil and areas of mutual agreement are not the same thing as a vassal or staunch ally.

What's his assassination got to do with it? The North Korean elite can backstab, assassinate and fight one another for position, but this doesn't change the fact that the leader will still answer to China. Why are Chinese troops stationed on the border? I would've thought that would be obvious, defectors.

Aside from the human trafficking of North Korean woman into the hands of crass, Chinese farmers who're willing to pay for the wife the can't attract, both the DPRK and CCP do not want North Koreans escaping; it weakens the Kim regime and the preservation of another friendly, neighbouring dictatorship is in the CCP's best interests.... seriously, what else have the PLA got to do other than harass defectors and civilians?

You might disagree, but as far as I'm concerned the DPRK is a vassal state. A key factor is that the DPRK is a government/regime unlike any other. So, the question we must ask, is the regime's survival (not North Korea's survival, the regime's) dependent upon China? Absolutely. Therefore, it's a vassal state.




Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2020, 02:00:42 pm »
She escaped when she wasn't much more than a kid, yes. So, are you saying she stopped gathering information about the regime after her escape? You're telling me there came a point we she decided "Ok, I'm only going to rely on what I saw and experienced as a child." She probably had countless meetings and interviews with other defectors, corroborated their accounts and researched a bunch of other stuff AFTER she defected and had more freedom to pursue said information. You can make the claim that relying solely on her childhood experiences, she might not have the strongest opinion, but she doesn't rely solely on these experiences, you don't know what other knowledge she's accrued over the years.
By why elevate her above other defectors or sources? Wouldn't the first place to look be, I don't know, party higher-ups or senior military officials? You know people who actually sat in briefings and chowed with senior officials and knew the ropes of power?

And do you think deep sources with actual power are leaking stuff to her? You do realize the consequences for these people if they're caught, right? You think Major General Park knows or cares who Park Yeonmi is? You think he'd risk sensitive information with some youtuber? "I'm going to discuss sensitive stuff to the girl I don't know and have no connections with who blabs about everything on a global internet platform that everyone can watch and monitor." thought no North Korean official ever. Do you think anyone manages to rise or survive being that reckless and stupid? As I said, such a person is almost certainly a target for DISINFORMATION. Like, ideally so.

And the activities you ascribe to her can be ascribed to numerous other officials and experts. And most seem to indicate that the relationship is much more strained between NK and China and is not at all akin to a vassal situation. Vassals tend not to have ICBMs. You think those were solely a deterrent to the US?

Quote
What's his assassination got to do with it? The North Korean elite can backstab, assassinate and fight one another for position, but this doesn't change the fact that the leader will still answer to China. Why are Chinese troops stationed on the border? I would've thought that would be obvious, defectors.
Dude.......if you don't understand this, then I don't know what to say.

Kim Jong-Nam was China's figurehead they were keeping on ice in case they ever needed to go in and topple the regime. It was an open secret. NK taking him out was a clear message to China and not something a vassal does.

And you really think the troops are there to stop defectors? They're there so that if anything goes wrong with the regime they can quickly move in and take over and they're a not so subtle message to North Korea that if they really go full rogue and destabilize the region, they'd be facing a two-front war that would be over within 72 hours.

Quote
. So, the question we must ask, is the regime's survival (not North Korea's survival, the regime's) dependent upon China? Absolutely. Therefore, it's a vassal state.
By that "logic" pretty much every nation on Earth that's a part of the global economy is a vassal state. Interdependence does not equal vassalization. North Korea can trade with other nations such as Iran, Russia, etc. They also could decide to warm to the U.S. They're playing the game that Korea has always played- Playing off various powers and occasionally cozying up to one or the other to ensure survival.

Vassal states don't do things like bombarding Yeongpyeong island and sinking the Cheonan without the permission of the Suzerain. Do you seriously think China signed off on those things? They had the 100% exact opposite effect of anything China would want- Increased US-ROK ties, hardening of popular opinion against NK, and increased ROK defense spending and acquisition and deployment of alliance systems, to say nothing of the effect it would have on the JSDF.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 02:10:00 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1988

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2020, 09:18:04 am »
A lot of what North Korean defectors say on these public speeches, shows, forums, you've got to take with a grain of salt. They are paid for speaking against the NK regime, and it's in their interests to exaggerate their experiences. Don't get me wrong, I do believe they've gone through hardships, but other NK defectors have pointed out changes, and exaggerations, in their narratives.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

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    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2020, 11:21:13 am »
By why elevate her above other defectors or sources? Wouldn't the first place to look be, I don't know, party higher-ups or senior military officials? You know people who actually sat in briefings and chowed with senior officials and knew the ropes of power?

And do you think deep sources with actual power are leaking stuff to her? You do realize the consequences for these people if they're caught, right? You think Major General Park knows or cares who Park Yeonmi is? You think he'd risk sensitive information with some youtuber? "I'm going to discuss sensitive stuff to the girl I don't know and have no connections with who blabs about everything on a global internet platform that everyone can watch and monitor." thought no North Korean official ever. Do you think anyone manages to rise or survive being that reckless and stupid? As I said, such a person is almost certainly a target for DISINFORMATION. Like, ideally so.

And the activities you ascribe to her can be ascribed to numerous other officials and experts. And most seem to indicate that the relationship is much more strained between NK and China and is not at all akin to a vassal situation. Vassals tend not to have ICBMs. You think those were solely a deterrent to the US?
Dude.......if you don't understand this, then I don't know what to say.

Kim Jong-Nam was China's figurehead they were keeping on ice in case they ever needed to go in and topple the regime. It was an open secret. NK taking him out was a clear message to China and not something a vassal does.

And you really think the troops are there to stop defectors? They're there so that if anything goes wrong with the regime they can quickly move in and take over and they're a not so subtle message to North Korea that if they really go full rogue and destabilize the region, they'd be facing a two-front war that would be over within 72 hours.
By that "logic" pretty much every nation on Earth that's a part of the global economy is a vassal state. Interdependence does not equal vassalization. North Korea can trade with other nations such as Iran, Russia, etc. They also could decide to warm to the U.S. They're playing the game that Korea has always played- Playing off various powers and occasionally cozying up to one or the other to ensure survival.

Vassal states don't do things like bombarding Yeongpyeong island and sinking the Cheonan without the permission of the Suzerain. Do you seriously think China signed off on those things? They had the 100% exact opposite effect of anything China would want- Increased US-ROK ties, hardening of popular opinion against NK, and increased ROK defense spending and acquisition and deployment of alliance systems, to say nothing of the effect it would have on the JSDF.

Maybe she still has ways of talking to people inside Korea and maybe she does talk to some Korean experts sometimes as she use to do TED talks and go to other meetings before COVID came along.  (Of course the inner most working of the government are going to just be speculation.  But day to day life, there are these Chinese made phones and networks that can call into North Korea.) 


Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2020, 12:33:55 pm »
Maybe she still has ways of talking to people inside Korea and maybe she does talk to some Korean experts sometimes as she use to do TED talks and go to other meetings before COVID came along.  (Of course the inner most working of the government are going to just be speculation.  But day to day life, there are these Chinese made phones and networks that can call into North Korea.) 
About daily life? Sure and probably good sources. About geopolitical affairs? Likely not, beyond NK hawks who will just use her.

The thing is, most Korean experts describe the NK-China alliance as anything but smooth. The only ones who don't are China hawks and even they at times acknowledge China's limited influence.

As for other affairs, sure she could get stuff and mayyyybe once or twice in her life break a story that some expert gives her that you couldn't otherwise read or hear about otherwise, but that's about it.

You really have to look at things from the perspective of potential leakers and the level of paranoia and habits theyd develop during their rise to power. There's no trust or track record there for her to be regarded as any kind of link.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 12:40:47 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • hangook77
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Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2020, 01:02:11 pm »
About daily life? Sure and probably good sources. About geopolitical affairs? Likely not, beyond NK hawks who will just use her.

The thing is, most Korean experts describe the NK-China alliance as anything but smooth. The only ones who don't are China hawks and even they at times acknowledge China's limited influence.

As for other affairs, sure she could get stuff and mayyyybe once or twice in her life break a story that some expert gives her that you couldn't otherwise read or hear about otherwise, but that's about it.

You really have to look at things from the perspective of potential leakers and the level of paranoia and habits theyd develop during their rise to power. There's no trust or track record there for her to be regarded as any kind of link.

Even 'experts' don't know for sure what is happening.  They are often guessing themselves.  China does help NK.  Of course it is rocky, but they do usually tolerate a lot of stuff (including using their country for smuggling, money laundering, exporting, importing, etc.  Many said, KJU was dead or his wife was killed and it turned out not to be true.  She did live there and if she still communicates secretly with people living there, she certainly does have insight.  Though she won't know for sure what goes on inside the NK government's secret meetings.


Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2020, 02:14:12 pm »
Even 'experts' don't know for sure what is happening.  They are often guessing themselves.  China does help NK.  Of course it is rocky, but they do usually tolerate a lot of stuff (including using their country for smuggling, money laundering, exporting, importing, etc.  Many said, KJU was dead or his wife was killed and it turned out not to be true.  She did live there and if she still communicates secretly with people living there, she certainly does have insight.  Though she won't know for sure what goes on inside the NK government's secret meetings.
Minor crap like money laundering and smuggling, no one really cares about. If two countries share a border, there will be money laundering and smuggling. China is not going to invade over bootleg DVDs and CCCP officials stashing cash. The big stuff- things like sinking a ROK warship, shelling a ROK island, assassinating Kim Jong Nam, those are the things that determine if there is a close alliance or not.

Think about this from the perspective of any leakers- Leaking secret information is incredibly dangerous. The risks are torture and death. You aren't going to risk getting caught by sending information that isn't critical.

And if you are sending critical information, you're not sending it to some youtuber you've never met and who seems to open her mouth about whatever and pursues attention and money. You're going to use your most trusted channels and people and you want it to go right to the top.

The only people who think a youtuber has the inside scoop on North Korea are people who rely solely on youtube for information.



  • hangook77
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    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
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Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2020, 08:19:10 am »
Minor crap like money laundering and smuggling, no one really cares about. If two countries share a border, there will be money laundering and smuggling. China is not going to invade over bootleg DVDs and CCCP officials stashing cash. The big stuff- things like sinking a ROK warship, shelling a ROK island, assassinating Kim Jong Nam, those are the things that determine if there is a close alliance or not.

Think about this from the perspective of any leakers- Leaking secret information is incredibly dangerous. The risks are torture and death. You aren't going to risk getting caught by sending information that isn't critical.

And if you are sending critical information, you're not sending it to some youtuber you've never met and who seems to open her mouth about whatever and pursues attention and money. You're going to use your most trusted channels and people and you want it to go right to the top.

The only people who think a youtuber has the inside scoop on North Korea are people who rely solely on youtube for information.



Sure, about the big stuff, she is getting it off the news like we are.  Though some high profile NK experts may talk to her occasionally in NK forums or whatever (after the information has already been sent to the proper people).  Prior to corona she was travelling a lot to NK forums giving speeches and meeting some of the NK experts?  I certainty am not claiming her the final dispenser of information.  She is more about day to day life, then anything else.  But, I do largely agree.   She was a passionate NK anti regime speaker for years.  Now, she is cashing in?  I guess.   



  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2021, 08:55:08 am »
Looks like Kim Jong Un's sister has been demoted.


Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2021, 07:08:07 pm »
A lot of what North Korean defectors say on these public speeches, shows, forums, you've got to take with a grain of salt. They are paid for speaking against the NK regime, and it's in their interests to exaggerate their experiences.

This is correct.

A lot of people don’t seem to realize they are living in an Anglosphere-controlled echo chamber, or they know and are just very nationalistic and invite this false image of the world. This chamber is exactly what the U.S. claims the “evil CCP” or “North Korean regime” is—a highly managed propaganda bubble, curated for the “correct” views. Heck, English itself is a rigged language, which just by communicating in it concludes its own values. Really, the only Westerners who can break out of this bubble are people who live abroad and learn other languages.

Anyhow, any Western approved representative from North Korea, China, Russia, Middle East that is allowed to appear in English-speaking media, is going to be a total shill. It’s a big business, book deals from the corporate oligopoly, etc. Then you’re supposed to say “oh, but I heard it from many sources so it must be true.” No, you only heard it from one source. You didn’t hear from the literally billions of people who have completely different views.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5663

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
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Re: The next leaders of South Korea & North Korea are likely to be women
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2021, 05:57:40 am »
This is correct.

A lot of people don’t seem to realize they are living in an Anglosphere-controlled echo chamber, or they know and are just very nationalistic and invite this false image of the world. This chamber is exactly what the U.S. claims the “evil CCP” or “North Korean regime” is—a highly managed propaganda bubble, curated for the “correct” views. Heck, English itself is a rigged language, which just by communicating in it concludes its own values. Really, the only Westerners who can break out of this bubble are people who live abroad and learn other languages.

Anyhow, any Western approved representative from North Korea, China, Russia, Middle East that is allowed to appear in English-speaking media, is going to be a total shill. It’s a big business, book deals from the corporate oligopoly, etc. Then you’re supposed to say “oh, but I heard it from many sources so it must be true.” No, you only heard it from one source. You didn’t hear from the literally billions of people who have completely different views.

Yep and have you heard, the Pope isn't Catholic.

I guess too that all the NK refugees that I had the pleasure of meeting in Seoul made up all the horror stories they told me about.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 06:01:49 am by confusedsafferinkorea »
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!