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  • jshtchr
  • Explorer

    • 8

    • November 05, 2020, 05:59:10 pm
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2020, 11:38:49 pm »
Ironic considering how complicated Epik is making things.  The schools and the Korean Teachers say they want experienced teachers, then EPIK disrespects their wishes by denying the hiring of experienced teachers.  Their arrogance is more important I guess.  If any of you ever go to one of those EPIK feedback meetings, you should all bring this point up and push for them to change it.

I guess I should be more specific. EPIK want everything to be smooth and uncomplicated for them.

I would be happy with a very rural position, but that position will probably go to a late applicant who wanted Seoul, and they will be miserable and do a poor job. It's a shame, because the PoE I wanted to apply to is actually very reasonable. Their regular recruiters are also decent.

Ironically, the only reason that PoE is using EPIK is because EPIK will manage the quarantine process. Guess what EPIK managed to screw up?


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2619

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2020, 09:36:35 am »
I guess I should be more specific. EPIK want everything to be smooth and uncomplicated for them.

I would be happy with a very rural position, but that position will probably go to a late applicant who wanted Seoul, and they will be miserable and do a poor job. It's a shame, because the PoE I wanted to apply to is actually very reasonable. Their regular recruiters are also decent.

Ironically, the only reason that PoE is using EPIK is because EPIK will manage the quarantine process. Guess what EPIK managed to screw up?

Korean teachers and local education officers have to start pushing back to EPIK and telling them they want more experienced teachers and to bend whatever hoops they must to make it happen.  I guess time for us to start suggesting to our co teachers to be more vocal to them.  Unless they want new teachers who will do a poorer job starting out and whom they also have to babysit more.  (By babysit, the Korean teacher has to go to the bank with them, go to KT with them to get a phone, go to the market to find or buy things, get lots of phone calls on nights and weekends for translation, etc.  An experienced teacher needs very little or none of this.  Easier for the Korean teachers.) 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2619

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2020, 10:08:16 am »
Actually, I just had a brainstorm of an idea.  Lets all highlight to our co teachers and schools this issue of experienced teachers and lightly suggest to them that they call EPIK along with local ed offices to start demanding experienced native teachers and to even hire those on D10 Visas so they can get those experienced teachers.  Of course, it may not lead to much.  But it is very little effort on our part to suggest. 


  • buckybee
  • Veteran

    • 125

    • August 30, 2015, 02:36:08 pm
    • Daejeon
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2020, 03:22:39 pm »
Did immigration change it back to an E2 automattically without having the documents?  (Thought someone said EPIK didn't give you the documents till after orientation)?

No, I ended up doing a visa run for personal reasons. However, my friend did this and she just changed her visa after orientation with the contract papers she received. It was easy.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2619

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2020, 09:15:28 am »
So for folks who just get off the airplane.  Are they doing orientation on a tourist visa?  I assume they are not actually getting their E2 Visa until they go to their school afterwards? 


Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2020, 09:42:39 am »
So for folks who just get off the airplane.  Are they doing orientation on a tourist visa?  I assume they are not actually getting their E2 Visa until they go to their school afterwards?

Don't you get the visa while in your home country (although I guess it could be from a Korean embassy in any country) before arriving? It's a stamp in your passport? And then you apply for your ARC once you are in the country.


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2020, 10:30:10 am »
Don't you get the visa while in your home country (although I guess it could be from a Korean embassy in any country) before arriving? It's a stamp in your passport? And then you apply for your ARC once you are in the country.

^Yeah, exactly this - you get the E2 before flying over and apply for the ARC after.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2619

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2020, 11:44:48 am »
I thought you couldn't work without an ARC though?  My first day, they took me to get the ARC and then I went to work.  Of course, I had to wait to get the printed card in the mail.  So, an orientation that is unpaid with no ARC number assigned is allowed?  Shouldn't make a difference because you would already have an alien ID number assigned.  It just transfers to your D10?  Again, some of you folks should take this up with EPIK.  I am not transferring, so not my fight.  It is still dumb.  I guess there was a time when in the past more foreigners would stick up for themselves.  I don't know what happened to them.


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2020, 12:09:22 pm »
I thought you couldn't work without an ARC though?  My first day, they took me to get the ARC and then I went to work.  Of course, I had to wait to get the printed card in the mail.  So, an orientation that is unpaid with no ARC number assigned is allowed?  Shouldn't make a difference because you would already have an alien ID number assigned.  It just transfers to your D10?  Again, some of you folks should take this up with EPIK.  I am not transferring, so not my fight.  It is still dumb.  I guess there was a time when in the past more foreigners would stick up for themselves.  I don't know what happened to them.

They give you your ARC number (or something along those lines), you just have to wait a bit to get the physical card. I'm pretty sure usually you go grab it right away, the wait was longer than usual this year thanks to covid stuff which was admittedly a pain.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 12:10:59 pm by 745sticky »


Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2020, 12:20:37 pm »
I thought you couldn't work without an ARC though?  My first day, they took me to get the ARC and then I went to work.  Of course, I had to wait to get the printed card in the mail.  So, an orientation that is unpaid with no ARC number assigned is allowed?  Shouldn't make a difference because you would already have an alien ID number assigned.  It just transfers to your D10?  Again, some of you folks should take this up with EPIK.  I am not transferring, so not my fight.  It is still dumb.  I guess there was a time when in the past more foreigners would stick up for themselves.  I don't know what happened to them.

You can work without the ARC as long as you have a visa. They are not the same thing. You have 90 days from entering the country to register with immigration/apply for an ARC. It makes sense to get this taken care of as quickly as possible because life can be difficult without having an ID number in Korea.


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1629

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2020, 02:22:59 pm »

I guess there was a time when in the past more foreigners would stick up for themselves.  I don't know what happened to them.


Exactly. No one, including their families, knows what happened to them.  That's why most of us aren't willing to stick up for your beliefs anymore.  Sure, there was a time when no one on this board would've hesitated to send emails to multiple recruiters telling them the wages were too low and they needed to pay more.  Or, even sat their co-teacher down, and with the aid of visuals and schematics taken the time to explain the intricacies of switching over to a D10 visa to a completely disinterested person, and then requesting they please go and call EPIK and have them change this regulation.  But where are they now is precisely the kind of question that answers your question.  Sleep with one eye open Norma Rae.   


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2619

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2020, 08:21:37 am »
Exactly. No one, including their families, knows what happened to them.  That's why most of us aren't willing to stick up for your beliefs anymore.  Sure, there was a time when no one on this board would've hesitated to send emails to multiple recruiters telling them the wages were too low and they needed to pay more.  Or, even sat their co-teacher down, and with the aid of visuals and schematics taken the time to explain the intricacies of switching over to a D10 visa to a completely disinterested person, and then requesting they please go and call EPIK and have them change this regulation.  But where are they now is precisely the kind of question that answers your question.  Sleep with one eye open Norma Rae.   

Imagine if you took more of your energy rather than answer me with a sarcastic reply to defend your can't do attitude and actually spent it to get better wages what the outcome will be.  The enemy here isn't cheap greedy employers; it's my fellow ESLers. 

Honestly, if I lost my job.  I'd have to leave Korea.  Though I did get emailed by a couple of posts not too long ago offering me around 3 mil for some kindies.  (So, some good jobs are definitely around.)  Although given the rising cost of living, even 3 mil will soon not be enough. 


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1629

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2020, 08:43:55 am »
Imagine if you took more of your energy rather than answer me with a sarcastic reply to defend your can't do attitude and actually spent it to get better wages what the outcome will be.  The enemy here isn't cheap greedy employers; it's my fellow ESLers. 

Honestly, if I lost my job.  I'd have to leave Korea.  Though I did get emailed by a couple of posts not too long ago offering me around 3 mil for some kindies.  (So, some good jobs are definitely around.)  Although given the rising cost of living, even 3 mil will soon not be enough. 

Why?  I'm not some union rep.  I negotiate on my own behalf and am satisfied with my current job and income.  I have never had a moral issue with anyone taking privates to supplement their income, as is a common practice.  It's not a "can't do" attitude.  Your ideas on changing the system are naive and impractical.  I don't think you really understand the forces at work.  As long as the bar for entry remains low and there are a continued flow of people willing to take a job at 2.1 with free housing things won't change much.  You are not so valued that you can push for change.  It's unfortunate but it's a reality.  A hakwan replacing an experienced teacher with a fresh out of quarantine new arrival isn't going to experience a drop in attendance.  Your public school will value an experienced and capable teacher that can be left to their own devices to do their job, but their hands are tied by outside budgets.  They have a limited discretionary fund to sweeten the pot a bit, but it's mostly out of their hands. 


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6537

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2020, 10:09:43 am »
OnNut81: +1
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1629

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2020, 12:13:14 pm »
OnNut81: +1

OnNut 82, then? 

On another note, I'd like to submit Hangook77's opening collection of words for the most spectacular car crash example of a sentence today:

Imagine if you took more of your energy rather than answer me with a sarcastic reply to defend your can't do attitude and actually spent it to get better wages what the outcome will be.

Not a grammar stickler, but a run-on sentence with zero commas is a struggle to get through. 


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6537

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2020, 12:16:02 pm »
On another note, I'd like to submit Hangook77's opening collection of words for the most spectacular car crash example of a sentence today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv61yEcOqpw
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2619

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2020, 12:59:00 pm »
Why?  I'm not some union rep.  I negotiate on my own behalf and am satisfied with my current job and income.  I have never had a moral issue with anyone taking privates to supplement their income, as is a common practice.  It's not a "can't do" attitude.  Your ideas on changing the system are naive and impractical.  I don't think you really understand the forces at work.  As long as the bar for entry remains low and there are a continued flow of people willing to take a job at 2.1 with free housing things won't change much.  You are not so valued that you can push for change.  It's unfortunate but it's a reality.  A hakwan replacing an experienced teacher with a fresh out of quarantine new arrival isn't going to experience a drop in attendance.  Your public school will value an experienced and capable teacher that can be left to their own devices to do their job, but their hands are tied by outside budgets.  They have a limited discretionary fund to sweeten the pot a bit, but it's mostly out of their hands. 

If most people refused to take lowballs, they'd disappear.  I am fine for myself.  But what's wrong with pushing to get the wage up for everyone?  Most young kids have no idea what inflation has been here and what money they would truly make?  Why make 3 million in today's income in 2008 and make 2 million in today's income in 2020.  You are getting ripped off.  You should be able to earn this from your regular job working full time.  You shouldn't have to take a pay cut and then make it up by sneaking around doing illegal privates.  That's pure BS.  As the living cost keeps rising, a 2 million wage will keep falling further and faster.  But keep advocating for people to take it.  People need to have self respect and refuse it.  Plenty of jobs and also plenty of other countries.  Supply and demand.  Refuse to take low wages and employers will have to up them.  Problem solved.  But these cowards take a pittance and who are too afraid to stick up for them-self is a huge part of the problem. 


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1629

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2020, 02:01:02 pm »


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1629

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2020, 02:18:37 pm »
If most people refused to take lowballs, they'd disappear.  I am fine for myself.  But what's wrong with pushing to get the wage up for everyone?  Most young kids have no idea what inflation has been here and what money they would truly make?  Why make 3 million in today's income in 2008 and make 2 million in today's income in 2020.  You are getting ripped off.  You should be able to earn this from your regular job working full time.  You shouldn't have to take a pay cut and then make it up by sneaking around doing illegal privates.  That's pure BS.  As the living cost keeps rising, a 2 million wage will keep falling further and faster.  But keep advocating for people to take it.  People need to have self respect and refuse it.  Plenty of jobs and also plenty of other countries.  Supply and demand.  Refuse to take low wages and employers will have to up them.  Problem solved.  But these cowards take a pittance and who are too afraid to stick up for them-self is a huge part of the problem. 

You're glossing over or not even taking into account something very important.  There are people that are probably in their early twenties that don't currently have a job on the horizon and aren't necessarily looking to start a career that want to come here.  They are not coming for the financial gain, but want some kind of adventure.  And if you're living at home after university wondering what to do next, Korea can be pretty exciting.  I still remember the sense of wonderment and excitement I had when I was first here.  I had never been to Asia before.  First trip into Seoul was like going to Disney World from my mid-size city in Jeolla.  You have to factor in that people who are looking for an experience or adventure are not concerned with whether they are dragging down salaries for the industry as a whole.  You're trying to impose your perspective on another group of people with totally different wants or needs.  I am not advocating people take a 2.1/month job, but it's not for me to decide what suits them.  You want people to get on board with your plan to change the industry, but you don't have a plan, just an agenda. 

By the way, the last few posts on here would dovetail nicely into that other thread about wages and jobs.  Started by you Hangook77?  Maybe the mods could use their modgic to move those posts from here into that thread and get this back on track, because the visa info alone is worthwhile. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2619

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: EPIK: D-4 to E-2
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2020, 02:34:08 pm »
You're glossing over or not even taking into account something very important.  There are people that are probably in their early twenties that don't currently have a job on the horizon and aren't necessarily looking to start a career that want to come here.  They are not coming for the financial gain, but want some kind of adventure.  And if you're living at home after university wondering what to do next, Korea can be pretty exciting.  I still remember the sense of wonderment and excitement I had when I was first here.  I had never been to Asia before.  First trip into Seoul was like going to Disney World from my mid-size city in Jeolla.  You have to factor in that people who are looking for an experience or adventure are not concerned with whether they are dragging down salaries for the industry as a whole.  You're trying to impose your perspective on another group of people with totally different wants or needs.  I am not advocating people take a 2.1/month job, but it's not for me to decide what suits them.  You want people to get on board with your plan to change the industry, but you don't have a plan, just an agenda. 

By the way, the last few posts on here would dovetail nicely into that other thread about wages and jobs.  Started by you Hangook77?  Maybe the mods could use their modgic to move those posts from here into that thread and get this back on track, because the visa info alone is worthwhile. 

Actually, it was you that replied with arguments demanding wages stay low and to act like an apologist for them.  Maybe you are a recruiter?  If you are a young person seeking adventure, Korea is really adventurous in 2020?  I do know even 10 years ago folks said it was too developed here and went onto other countries very quickly.  Most that came and stayed did it for the money.  But the money has disappeared for most folks.  The point is it could be better and should be better.  Maybe rather than argue with me, argue with those keeping wages low?  They laugh when we fight amongst ourselves.  Either way, I responded to the topic at hand but you felt triggered enough to argue and defend low wages and to think it;s wonderful.  Wages in spending purchasing power dropped for most teachers from 3 million won in 2008 (inflation) to 2 million won in 2020.  It is beyond me how stupid and argumentative people are about this and how they can defend it.