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  • Hero of Waygookistan

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    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2020, 12:19:05 pm »
Unfortunately, as long as there's a body positivity movement going on, they probably do.

The body positivity movement is a few people who were already fat anyways coping. Admittedly I've seen some pretty cringe shit from them but even when they do break onto mainstream news its usually as the resident laughingstock.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #81 on: November 13, 2020, 12:38:57 pm »
The body positivity movement is a few people who were already fat anyways coping. Admittedly I've seen some pretty cringe shit from them but even when they do break onto mainstream news its usually as the resident laughingstock.

Nothing funnier than an overweight person trying not to internalize the hate and scorn that society feeds them.


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #82 on: November 13, 2020, 12:45:15 pm »
Nothing funnier than an overweight person trying not to internalize the hate and scorn that society feeds them.

Paul Blart: Mall Cop grossed like 180 mill so society in general seems to agree


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #83 on: November 13, 2020, 12:59:33 pm »
For the majority of obese folk that might be accurate, but it's also a gross over-simplification.
Hypothyroidism, diabetes, leptin deficiency, and a myriad of genetic disorders can affect one's weight, as can various anti-depressants, contraceptives, anticonvulsants, blood-pressure medications etc.

Sure, but I wouldn't call it a gross over-simplification.

I'm talking about the result of an individual's choices and the obesity crisis. With many medical conditions, people have a more difficult time controlling their weight and as you said, this accounts for a small minority of obese people and does not significantly contribute to, or explain, the obesity crises around the globe.

My point is that the obesity crisis is caused by eating disorders and/or poor choices. Obesity related to hypothyroidism or leptin deficiency isn't the reason that nearly 40% of Americans are obese.


  • Kyndo
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #84 on: November 13, 2020, 01:05:21 pm »
No, you're right: I also believe that eating disorders of one sort or another are responsible for the majority of the world's obesity.
However, I think that there are a lot of complexities that are lost when summed up so simply.
There was another thread that looked at how socio-economic conditions can play an important role in one's weight, as might genetics, etc etc.
By saying it's all up to an individuals poor choices is ignoring a lot of important factors that strongly influence and exacerbate those poor choices.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #85 on: November 13, 2020, 08:53:39 pm »
“Leave Fat Kids Alone”
www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/opinion/childhood-obesity-health.html

Quote
I was in the fourth grade, sitting in a doctor’s office, the first time my face flushed with shame. I was, I had just learned, overweight.

I will remember the pediatrician’s words forever: It’s probably from eating all that pizza and ice cream. It tastes good, doesn’t it? But it makes your body big and fat.

I felt my face sear with shame.

There was more: Just imagine that your body is made out of clay. If you can just stay the same weight, as you grow, you’ll stretch out. And once you grow up, you’ll be thin and beautiful. Won’t that be great?

I learned so much in that one moment: You’re not beautiful. You’re indulging too much. Your body is wrong. You must have done it. I’d failed a test I didn’t even know I’d taken, and the sense of failure and self-loathing it inspired planted the seeds of a depression I would live with for many years.

...I worry about...children... who...endure similar remarks, the kind that shatter their confidence, reject their bodies and usher them into a harsh new world of judgment.

For the rest of my childhood, I weathered the storm of conversations like the one I had at the doctor’s office. Well-meaning, supportive adults eagerly pointed out my perceived failings at every turn.

...

My life was filled with self-flagellation, forced performances to display my commitment to changing an unacceptable body. Adults asked openly about what I had eaten, when I had exercised and whether I knew how to do either correctly. After all, if I was still fat, it must be my fault.

My body wasn’t just a body, the way a thinner one might have been. It was perceived as a burden, an inconvenience, a bothersome problem to solve. Only thinness would allow me to forget my body, but despite my best efforts, thinness never came.

The more I and others tried to change my size, the deeper my depression became. Even at such a young age, I had been declared an enemy combatant in the nation’s war on childhood obesity, and I felt that fact deeply. Bodies like mine now represented an epidemic, and we were its virus, personified.

...

The war on childhood obesity reached its zenith with the 2010 introduction of the national “Let’s Move!” campaign, “dedicated to solving the problem of obesity within a generation.” It was a campaign against “childhood obesity” — not specific health conditions or the behaviors that may contribute to those health conditions. It wasn’t a campaign against foods with little nutritional value, nor against the unchecked poverty that called for such low-cost, shelf-stable foods. It was a campaign against a body type — specifically, children’s body types.

In 2012 Georgia began its Strong4Life campaign aimed at reducing...childhoo d obesity...[T]he billboards targeted fatness in children. Somber black-and-white photographs of fat children stared at viewers, emblazoned with bold text. “WARNING: My fat may be funny to you but it’s killing me. Stop childhood obesity.” “WARNING: Fat prevention begins at home. And the buffet line.” “WARNING: Big bones didn’t make me this way. Big meals did.”

The billboards purported to warn parents of the danger of childhood fatness, but to many they appeared to be public ridicule of fat kids. Strong4Life became one of the nation’s highest-profile fat-shaming campaigns — and its targets were children.

...

Overwhelmingly, childhood anti-obesity programs hinged on shame and fear, a scared-straight approach for fat children. As of 2017, fully half of the states required that schools track students’ body mass index. Many require “BMI report cards” to be sent home to parents...And observational studies...have shown that the practice of parental notification doesn’t appear to lead to individual weight loss... One eating disorder treatment center called the report cards a “pathway to weight stigma” that would most likely contribute to development of eating disorders in predisposed students.

Experiencing weight stigma has significant long-term effects, too. A 2012 study in the journal Obesity asked fat adults to indicate how often they had experienced various weight-stigmatizing events. Seventy-four percent of women and 70 percent of men of similar BMI and age reported others’ making negative assumptions. Twenty-eight percent of women and 23 percent of men reported job discrimination. For various of the subcategory, the effects of stigma were especially dire for young people, very fat people and those who started dieting early in life. To cope, 79 percent of all respondents reported eating, 74 percent isolated themselves, and 41 percent left the situation or avoided it in the future. Rather than motivating fat people to lose weight, weight stigma had led to more isolation, more avoidance, and less support.

Despite ample federal and state funding, multiple national public health campaigns and a slew of television shows, the war on obesity does not appear to be lowering Americans’ BMIs. According to the Centers for Disease Control, since 1999 there has been a 39 percent increase in adult obesity and a 33.1 percent increase in obesity among children.

Weight stigma kick-starts what for many will become lifelong cycles of shame. And it sends a clear, heartbreaking message to fat children: The world would be a better place without you in it.

Yet, despite its demonstrated ineffectiveness, the so-called war on childhood obesity rages on... [F]or the sake of children who are told You’re not beautiful. You’re indulging too much. Your body is wrong. You must have done it, I hope some...will declare a cease-fire.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 08:57:45 pm by Don Hobak »


  • stoat
  • The Legend

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    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #86 on: November 14, 2020, 09:22:04 am »
Agreed. They should be educating/shaming the parents, not the kids.


  • chimp
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #87 on: November 14, 2020, 01:22:20 pm »
De choices de choices... God what a sanctimonious and boorish take on the situation.

Cheap mass-produced food provided to an animal primed to eat when it can. Corpulence is to be expected. Not everyone can govern themselves as well as us fit ones (there but for the grace of etc).

From what I see, fatness is just another stick for nasty people to beat people they don't approve of or who struggle with self-control. If a person is that bothered by gluttony don't ****** "shame" the poor lardass, be a decent person instead and be a small part of a world with at least a tiny little shred of humanity that doesn't drive people to such dysfunctionality on the one hand, or be a useful idiot for a culture that connives in stupidity and excess on the other.

When all is said and done, lecturing these people, clucking over "choices", or shaming them does nothing except make the blowhard feel superior.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 01:25:31 pm by chimp »
oo oo ahh ahh


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #88 on: November 15, 2020, 01:39:21 pm »
The problem with "eating disorder" is that it is overly broad. It can range from minor delays in feeling full to severe glandular issues and the degree to which one has control and responsibility varies significantly.


  • VanIslander
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #89 on: November 15, 2020, 03:01:12 pm »
Poor people often lack satiating food. They live in food deserts where their options are unsatisfying, less nutritious, less fibre items. Scientists have been studying satiety, the satisfaction point, when the body tells you it has what it needs. Kids eat dirt to get minerals. Eating a loaf of white bread gives 1000 calories but is unsatisfying, leaving the person hungry a couple of hours later. Minerals, vitamins and fibre in more expensive fresh fruit and vegetables makes the body signal "Enough!" waaay earlier than the SAD diet (Standard American Diet).


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #90 on: November 15, 2020, 07:20:23 pm »
So it *is* insane to go back to America, but mostly because I would be consigning my wife and children to a (shortened) lifetime of obesity, and all the shame and derision that come with it, unless we end up among the lucky(er) ones who somehow manage to stay out of that 40%-large demographic?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 07:25:14 pm by Don Hobak »


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  • The Legend

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    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #91 on: November 15, 2020, 08:05:14 pm »
I recently met a guy who weighs 336 lbs, down from 377 from bike riding. The doctor told him he was at risk of heart disease--shrugged it off--at risk of diabetes--shrugged it off--at risk of losing his ability to perform in bed--went out and bought a bike.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4451

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2020, 08:46:27 am »
Is it insane to leave Korea right now?

Yes...it is insane to leave one of the world's few safe havens, unless you're going to another safe haven like NZ, Canada or similar.

I just left the UK. Couldn't be more relieved to be out of that complete shithole the country currently is re covid. Twas fantastic seeing and spending time with family, but that was about it. Nothing else felt good or safe in London specifically.

The country is currently collapsing in on itself economically and politically...and nobody knows what to do because the British population voted possibly the most incompetent and corrupt leadership in the history of the country back in December.

The government is forcing schools to remain open and aren't even providing masks for teachers or students. Universities were forced to open so they could collect fees from students...then said students were locked in their accommodation and forced to do online classes as cases within said accommodations sky rocketed.

The government semi-forced businesses to stay open in August by offering what we're essentially bribes to businesses and customers...and now covid cases are going through the roof.

They allowed people to go on vacation around Europe and bring the virus back...and set up zero restrictions on anyone arriving from abroad. You could basically walk from the plane onto public transport with zero issues.

Buses and trains full of maskless pupils at the end of each school day...all doing what teenagers usually do - be loud, rowdy and physical with each other.

Millions have already lost employment and millions more are about to be laid off with no reprieve in sight.

Oh yeah, and Brexit.

So, OP...unless you're from and returning to one of the few countries that is currently functioning at close to normal, I'd suggest spending at least another year in Korea.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2020, 11:57:34 am »
Poor people often lack satiating food. They live in food deserts where their options are unsatisfying, less nutritious, less fibre items. Scientists have been studying satiety, the satisfaction point, when the body tells you it has what it needs. Kids eat dirt to get minerals. Eating a loaf of white bread gives 1000 calories but is unsatisfying, leaving the person hungry a couple of hours later. Minerals, vitamins and fibre in more expensive fresh fruit and vegetables makes the body signal "Enough!" waaay earlier than the SAD diet (Standard American Diet).

100% true. Sub-economic residential areas in the US have a more difficult time getting unprocessed food. What your body needs and what you crave aren't always the same and it's possible to screw things up if you constantly eat junk food.

This does tie in with my argument that eating disorders are to blame. As Dmart said, eating disorders manifest in many, many different ways, but chief if which (as far as I'm concerned) start in the mind. People eat when they're bored, sad, happy etc. instead of only eating when they're hungry. There are also plenty of people living within a reasonable distance of a store that sells fruit and vegetables at decent prices yet, they go straight for the Oreos.

I get that living in a food dessert is inconvenient, but honestly, I think the "food dessert" metaphor is quite the hyperbole. My family didn't live near a supermarket. We bought our vegetable once a week, blanched them and froze them. We ate vegetables every day.

I get that you can blame the 'food dessert' thing if you notice that you start putting on a bit of weight, but seriously... you're over 200kg! At what point did you realize your weight is a problem, at what point do you decide to watch what you eat and at what point are you responsible for what you put in your mouth? Lack of education? Sure, but if you realize you can no longer see your junk then perhaps you could educate yourself to find out what you can do to fix the problem.

My wife and I share a strange fascination with watching these shows on extreme obesity and weight loss. When these obese people discuss how they reached their weight, it ALWAYS begins with some kind of traumatic event that happened in their past whether it was sexual abuse, bullying, abandonment, loss, depression etc. the issue started in their head and eating was the coping mechanism as others would turn to alcohol or substance abuse.

An eating disorder is simply the manifestation of a deeper mental problem. I don't care if the nearest vegetables are an hours drive away, I'd say nobody becomes obese simply because it's a bit inconvenient to get unprocessed food.


  • VanIslander
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2020, 01:02:43 am »
Strawberries for $10 or strawberry-flavored cookies for $2.99?

Food deserts is a real phenomenom.
As an ex-uni student i totally get it.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2020, 06:57:12 am »
I somehow doubt that your university was smack dab in the center of a food desert, even if you went to uni in he days before compulsory meal plans, but I can see how your budget might have prevented you from sampling your grocer’s full assortment of goods.

Luckily, our condo is very walkable, with two markets within a few blocks. So maybe it is coronavirus I should be worried about...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 07:52:11 am by Don Hobak »


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2020, 07:49:10 am »
Strawberries for $10 or strawberry-flavored cookies for $2.99?

Food deserts is a real phenomenom.
As an ex-uni student i totally get it.

Strawberries are expensive everywhere and aren't exactly an essential.

Lentils are incredible foods and can be kept for ages. You can buy frozen mixed vegetables or have it delivered and stored in the freezer. Blanch almost any vegetable and store it in the freezer for months.

I seriously don't buy that people living in a 1st world country have absolutely no way of getting healthy foods. It might be trickier, but it's certainly possible and not terribly inconvenient.


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  • Waygook Lord

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    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #97 on: November 17, 2020, 08:11:26 am »
I seriously don't buy that people living in a 1st world country have absolutely no way of getting healthy foods. It might be trickier, but it's certainly possible and not terribly inconvenient.

BUT I DON'T LIKE LENTILS AND MCDONALD'S TASTES GOOD.
ETA 2day 4hour 45min to next reboot.
DO NOT UNPLUG


  • Kyndo
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #98 on: November 17, 2020, 08:34:14 am »
I seriously don't buy that people living in a 1st world country have absolutely no way of getting healthy foods. It might be trickier, but it's certainly possible and not terribly inconvenient.
Not every part of a first world country is necessarily first world, unfortunately.  :sad:


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2020, 12:23:09 pm »
Not every part of a first world country is necessarily first world, unfortunately.  :sad:

Absolutely, but I still believe there are ways. You telling me Americans can't have frozen veg or lentils delivered once a week?
Even so, an unhealthy diet alone isn't going to make you obese. It's an unhealthy diet coupled with extreme inactivity. Calling an ambulance to get your fat ass off the toilet, are you kidding me?

An aside, in SA, healthy food is expensive but fast food (McDonalds, KFC, Steers etc.) is expensive AF. We only got KFC once or twice a month, for Sunday lunch, and sometimes, we'd have Fisherman's Lane (seafood platter) instead.