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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2020, 04:00:20 pm »
It takes a special kind of sociopath to read an artlicle about the prevalence of asymptomatic transmission and think, "It's fine. Nothing will happen to me because I'm not fat."

Funny enough, this morningís episode of GoGo Dino taught my daughter how to fat-shame a pudgy allosaurus  :undecided:


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  • Super Waygook

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2020, 05:54:14 pm »
Itís estimated that about 20% of people who contract coronavirus are completely asymptomatic.

I am curious about that statistic.  Asymptomatic just means they donít recognize any symptoms, right? 

One of the things I am curious about is potential long-term effects of disease that are not immediately apparent.  There is already so much focus on the deaths and severe illnesses (and denial or downplaying of them).  But there isófor I think good reasonómore focus on the more severe cases.  I am curious to find out if there are any long term symptoms in people who had no symptoms or thought the symptoms were something else because they were so mild.

It is perhaps the least most concerning result of the pandemic for the time being, but the past year has made me more curious about the long term effects of diseases.  Just curious about this more than extremely concerned to be clear.

RIP Aaron Swartz who tried to liberate journal articles from publishers who donít pay their authors.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2020, 09:26:27 pm »
I am curious about that statistic.  Asymptomatic just means they donít recognize any symptoms, right? 

One of the things I am curious about is potential long-term effects of disease that are not immediately apparent.  There is already so much focus on the deaths and severe illnesses (and denial or downplaying of them).  But there isófor I think good reasonómore focus on the more severe cases.  I am curious to find out if there are any long term symptoms in people who had no symptoms or thought the symptoms were something else because they were so mild.

It is perhaps the least most concerning result of the pandemic for the time being, but the past year has made me more curious about the long term effects of diseases.  Just curious about this more than extremely concerned to be clear.

RIP Aaron Swartz who tried to liberate journal articles from publishers who donít pay their authors.

I mean, Iím just looking at Healthline lol, but hereís an interesting study using information gathered from the occupants of the Diamond Princess ship early in the onset of this pandemic. https://med.stanford.edu/content/dam/sm/id/documents/COVID/AsymptCOVID_TransmissionShip.pdf

Since itís very hard/highly unethical to conduct human experiments with a highly contagious and potentially lethal virus, naturally arising, contained situations like these often offer the closest approximation researchers can get to an experimental study. This pegs the asymptomatic infection rate at about 17.9%.

Yes, asymptomatic means that they donít exhibit any symptoms of illness while infected, but as this is likely going to be self-reported and after the fact, perhaps with some people there were in fact subtle symptoms like an itchy throat that the infectee shrugged off as seasonal allergies rather than attributing it to the virus.

My understanding is that the less severe the symptoms, the less likely you are to spread it and the less chance you would have of exhibiting any long term effects. This would have a lot to do with your viral load. Long term effects of the virus canít be known yet because the virus just hasnít been around for that long. Of course people who sustain irreparable damage to their lungs are going to have chronic respiratory issues going forward, and likewise any cardiovascular damage attributable to the virus could lead to chronic conditions as well. A lot of that is probably going to depend how the virus interacts with an individualís underlying health issues and vulnerabilities. Iím no virologist (!) but I donít think thereís anybody saying that this is the type of virus that stays dormant in your body like, say, herpes does in our nervous system, but perhaps thatís whatís happening with these few cases of ďlong-haulersĒ that I mentioned earlier. But yeah, ultimately weíre not going to know about long term effects of the virus until long term effects start to be reported, which may take a long time. :lipsrsealed:
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 09:37:40 pm by Don Hobak »


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  • The Legend

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2020, 02:27:17 am »
I heard one story a few months ago out of the UK that some people had no symptoms, but ended up with permanent scarring of the lungs, and all the complications that go with that.

Could somebody explain to me how scarring of the lungs is not a symptom?

My point is that when you have 1000s of authorities trying to make rules and vocabulary for something like this there are bound to be inconsistencies. Any attempt at standardizing ends up as 1000s+1.


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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2020, 04:34:20 am »
Yes, it would be insane.

 I'm in the US. I work from home. I go to the grocery store once a week. I pick up restaurant take-out once or twice a week. I go to Lowe's every couple of weeks for home project supplies. I ride my bike.  I social distance and so have to almost yell at my older hard of hearing neighbors. This is without a mask on.

In stores, etc. I always wear a mask and afterwards am constantly washing my hands.

In my area, most people are wearing masks. But in the two surrounding (red) counties where I sometimes ride my bike, I'll go in a convenience store and none of the employees, much less the customers, are wearing masks.

Infections and deaths are going up pretty much every day now.

This is a disease that has killed 1.28 million people and isn't slowing down. In the words of Dirty Harry, "So you have to ask yourself, punk, do you feel lucky?"




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  • The Legend

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2020, 04:36:46 am »
Some who test positive for coronavirus didnít even know they had it. Commonly NOTHING will happen if you catch it. Very healthy people arenít even mildly inconvenienced by it. The infection is neutralized quickly. And the length of being contagious is drastically shortened.
Could you post a scan of your medical license?


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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2020, 07:32:20 am »
I heard one story a few months ago out of the UK that some people had no symptoms, but ended up with permanent scarring of the lungs, and all the complications that go with that.

Could somebody explain to me how scarring of the lungs is not a symptom?

My point is that when you have 1000s of authorities trying to make rules and vocabulary for something like this there are bound to be inconsistencies. Any attempt at standardizing ends up as 1000s+1.
Often "symptomatic" is conflated with "noticeably symptomatic".
I have a good friend who suffered cascading organ failure a few years ago. In retrospect, there were a few symptoms in the months leading up to it, but 100% certainly there was something deeply wrong for the previous few years that just went entirely unnoticed.

   Scarring of the lungs can have symptoms as mild as slightly decreased lung capacity, which can go completely unnoticed, especially if one isn't particularly physically active.


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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2020, 08:29:38 am »
Could you post a scan of your medical license?
(JK)


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2020, 09:30:14 am »
Yes, it would be insane.

 I'm in the US. I work from home. I go to the grocery store once a week. I pick up restaurant take-out once or twice a week. I go to Lowe's every couple of weeks for home project supplies. I ride my bike.  I social distance and so have to almost yell at my older hard of hearing neighbors. This is without a mask on.

In stores, etc. I always wear a mask and afterwards am constantly washing my hands.

In my area, most people are wearing masks. But in the two surrounding (red) counties where I sometimes ride my bike, I'll go in a convenience store and none of the employees, much less the customers, are wearing masks.

Infections and deaths are going up pretty much every day now.

This is a disease that has killed 1.28 million people and isn't slowing down. In the words of Dirty Harry, "So you have to ask yourself, punk, do you feel lucky?"

Thank you for this. Sounds like youíre making it work despite the insane-making circumstances.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2020, 10:11:21 am »
Yes, it would be insane.

 I'm in the US. I work from home. I go to the grocery store once a week. I pick up restaurant take-out once or twice a week. I go to Lowe's every couple of weeks for home project supplies. I ride my bike.  I social distance and so have to almost yell at my older hard of hearing neighbors. This is without a mask on.

In stores, etc. I always wear a mask and afterwards am constantly washing my hands.

In my area, most people are wearing masks. But in the two surrounding (red) counties where I sometimes ride my bike, I'll go in a convenience store and none of the employees, much less the customers, are wearing masks.

Infections and deaths are going up pretty much every day now.

This is a disease that has killed 1.28 million people and isn't slowing down. In the words of Dirty Harry, "So you have to ask yourself, punk, do you feel lucky?"



Actually, luck (something that goes against probability) would be you getting the disease (lucky for the virus) and then dying from it (lucky for death). You not getting the disease and not dying would be the routine outcome.


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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2020, 10:34:36 am »
Unless the majority of people have good luck, in which case you need to be lucky.
Dirty Harry really ought to have said "Luckier", as luck is always relative.
"So you have to ask yourself, punk, do you feel luckier?"


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2020, 03:37:41 pm »
You would be crazy to leave Korea and head back to where the highest number of COVID-19 are.


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  • Waygook Lord

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2020, 03:56:15 pm »
On a deaths per capita basis America's not even in the top ten. (The U.K. is though.)


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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2020, 04:06:16 pm »
On a deaths per capita basis America's not even in the top ten. (The U.K. is though.)
True.
But!
Currently, the USA is at number 11 and catching up: Covid19 deaths in the USA are accelerating, while plateauing in most of the top 10.
Still, the change in leadership and resulting changes in how Covid19 is dealt with might mitigate the current trend. Here's to hoping that the USA stays out of this particular top 10!


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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2020, 07:21:02 pm »
On a deaths per capita basis America's not even in the top ten. (The U.K. is though.)

Actually, not true.
USA currently number 10
UK number 12
The USA will likely get several positions ahead in the next week or two as the number of cases are increasing there and so are the fatalities. Also the difference between the current number 6  (Brazil) and the USA is really small.


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  • Waygook Lord

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2020, 07:49:03 pm »
Where are you getting those figures?

These stats (updated today) show the USA at #12 and the UK at #9: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/


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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2020, 07:50:47 pm »
That's true, the US is ahead of the UK at number 10 now. San Marino and Andorra (numbers 1 and 4, respectively) are anomalies because of their tiny population sizes, so they can basically be disregarded. Among countries with populations over 50m, only Brazil is doing worse (although how deaths are recorded probably plays a large role here - one can imagine that there are plenty of deaths in India, Mexico, Colombia, etc. that aren't recorded as COVID).


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  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2020, 07:51:11 pm »


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  • Waygook Lord

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2020, 07:57:49 pm »
Both of those sites were updated today, so whose statistics should we more trust, and why?


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2020, 09:32:36 pm »
ďWisconsin hurtling toward 'tipping point' when hospitals won't be able to save everyone who is sick, health officials warnĒ

www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/11/covid-19-cases-put-wisconsin-hospitals-close-tipping-point/6253922002/

Iím guessing my state isnít alone in this.