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Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« on: November 09, 2020, 09:23:25 pm »
I came back to my family in Korea in early May when it seemed like shit was really hitting the fan in America concerning the coronavirus. At the time I was honestly worried that flights out of the US might suddenly cease running. The idea then was to spend the summer here, then go back to America to finish up by BSN in the fall when all this silly covid business had finally died down, and then bring my family over to live in the condo we bought as soon as I got a nursing job. Well, with the summer came a second wave more furious than the first, and my wife and I decided it was best that I stay here through the fall, do the online-available classes remotely, and then return to America with family in tow to complete the final few classes spring semester, including two days of clinical at a hospital. By then surely the country would have figured out how to get the virus relatively under control. At the time I was also starting to worry about election hijinks (successful coups, failed coups, bloodshed, etc) and thought our new plan would allow us a safe distance to see how that all plays out. In the meantime we went through all the steps and shelled out all the cash to get my wife a visa, which now expires February 21 if weíre not on a plane by then. Luckily, as bad as the election was, the true nightmare scenarios donít look likely at this point ó phew! ó but the coronavirus situation has only become worse and promises to worsen still over the coming winter months.

Which brings me to the topic of the thread. Is it complete insanity to bring my wife and young children out of the relative safety of Korea and into the maw of the beast in America right now (leave in Early January), especially considering the amount of virus exposure Iíll be subject to on clinical days? My wife is already not super looking forward to Wisconsin winters...  :sad:


  • VanIslander
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2020, 11:03:43 pm »
100,000 new infections daily in America.
100 new infections daily in Korea.

Six times more people and a thousand times higher infection rate.

I ain't goin' anywhere any time soon.
This is one thing Korea has done well at.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

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    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2020, 11:12:06 pm »
Government surveillance and tracking is the reason Korea contained this. That and mask wearing. And less immune system compromising obesity.


  • hippo
  • Super Waygook

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2020, 12:31:22 am »
I don't have any answers.

Do you think the US will have COVID-19 under control by January?

 If I remember correctly you also have a daughter.  Is this correct?  If so, how much do we know about the long-term effects of COVID-19 on your daughter?

How about you? Your wife?  Risk factors?

BSN is nursing, right?   You probably know more about this than most here on this forum regarding various certainties and uncertainties. 

Based on what I know (and much moreso my family life), I will be sticking around here.  I would imagine I would be sticking around in Korea for at least a while longer even if I was single.  In addition to the stats cited above, Korea is much more urban than the US, so if everything else was equal, Korea  would be doing a lot worse.


  • Mr C
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2020, 07:39:09 am »
Government surveillance and tracking is the reason Korea contained this. That and mask wearing. And less immune system compromising obesity.
So what? 
Mr. C is not a bad person, in fact is quite a good person here. One of the best people on this forum if you really look at it
-Mr.DeMartino


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2020, 07:51:11 am »
100,000 new infections daily in America.
100 new infections daily in Korea.

Six times more people and a thousand times higher infection rate.

I ain't goin' anywhere any time soon.
This is one thing Korea has done well at.

You're talking about discovered infections.  Korea is not doing random testing.  There was no testing done of school staff when P.S. schools reopened.  I can't just go and get a Covid test for peace of mind without symptoms.  Obviously Korea has way more Covid positive cases than are reported found everyday.  It's naive to believe there are less than 100 new cases popping up a day.  Korea has been smart with not cratering their economy over it.  No fever equals no covid?  Nope.  And I'm happy Korea hasn't gone into a blind panic over this. 


  • Kayos
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2020, 07:55:39 am »
You're talking about discovered infections.  Korea is not doing random testing.  There was no testing done of school staff when P.S. schools reopened.  I can't just go and get a Covid test for peace of mind without symptoms.  Obviously Korea has way more Covid positive cases than are reported found everyday.  It's naive to believe there are less than 100 new cases popping up a day.  Korea has been smart with not cratering their economy over it.  No fever equals no covid?  Nope.  And I'm happy Korea hasn't gone into a blind panic over this.

About 4 weeks ago, I got a covid test without symptoms and I didn't even get charged for it when it came back negative. :o


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

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    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2020, 08:11:24 am »
So what?

I'm praising South Korea for their government surveillance, mask wearing, and physical fitness. That was undoubtedly helpful in the fight against COVID-19.

Non elderly folks in good health don't have to worry about the virus, it won't hurt you, but it's good to take steps to help the vulnerable among us.

It's a cold or flu but more contagious. If your immune system is strong you won't feel anything when you get it.

Stay in shape and one could never be sick again. Imagine no more colds or flu. It's possible.


  • oglop
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2020, 08:30:20 am »
please L I....just give it a rest


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2020, 08:43:38 am »
Short trip over for the wife and kid, then a return flight back to Korea to finish up some business??


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2020, 08:47:08 am »
People who get angry when I give health advice are themselves not in good shape. Itís obvious. But just wanted to share my experience about how exercising every day and eating strictly healthy food means NEVER being sick. Iím surprised by the extent of the positive change. Just typing words. Seems silly to be mad and offended / be a crab in the bucket when hearing pertinent information.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2020, 08:56:17 am »
People who get angry when I give health advice are themselves not in good shape. Itís obvious. But just wanted to share my experience about how exercising every day and eating strictly healthy food means NEVER being sick. Iím surprised by the extent of the positive change. Just typing words. Seems silly to be mad and offended / be a crab in the bucket when hearing pertinent information.

I need a Stossel video to fully understand it


  • Lazio
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2020, 09:00:20 am »
You're talking about discovered infections.  Korea is not doing random testing.  There was no testing done of school staff when P.S. schools reopened.  I can't just go and get a Covid test for peace of mind without symptoms.  Obviously Korea has way more Covid positive cases than are reported found everyday.  It's naive to believe there are less than 100 new cases popping up a day.  Korea has been smart with not cratering their economy over it.  No fever equals no covid?  Nope.  And I'm happy Korea hasn't gone into a blind panic over this. 

Like I wrote in another thread: look at the test positivity rates. For the last 2 days it was 10,42% and 7,58% respectively in the USA. In Korea it was 2,53% and 1,99%. There are undetected cases in every country obviously. But a lower positivity rate indicates a lower number of undetected cases.
*edit: Yesterday's numbers came out in Korea, since I wrote the above. Out of 14.761 tests, 100 were positive. That's 0,67%. They do fewer tests during the weekends (5,631 and 6,319 this past weekend). As you can see, the number of tests more than doubled, yet they found less people infected.

Also, when they find a cluster in Korea, a company or school etc ., they test everyone, and their contacts. Whether they have symptoms or not. Yet, they still don't find a lot of positive cases. It's like random testing on a small scale.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 11:16:36 am by Lazio »


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2020, 09:18:47 am »
I don't have any answers.

Do you think the US will have COVID-19 under control by January?

No way. Likely will be worse than it is currently, as hard as that is to believe.

 If I remember correctly you also have a daughter.  Is this correct?  If so, how much do we know about the long-term effects of COVID-19 on your daughter?

How about you? Your wife?  Risk factors?
I donít think the long term effects are really known for anybody. There are a small number of covid ďlong-haulersĒ whose symptoms linger for weeks to months (to years?), and of course it can do permanent damage to those whom it hits the hardest. Children are the least susceptible group to the virus, and the younger the better. My daughter is only three, so Iím not so much worried about her and the newborn. Thereís a prevalent belief that this coronavirus might be like chickenpox in this regard; generally harmless if infected in childhood, with worsening symptoms the older one is upon initial exposure. Iím more worried that my wife or I might get it, though weíre not particularly vulnerable.

BSN is nursing, right?   You probably know more about this than most here on this forum regarding various certainties and uncertainties. 

Based on what I know (and much moreso my family life), I will be sticking around here.  I would imagine I would be sticking around in Korea for at least a while longer even if I was single.  In addition to the stats cited above, Korea is much more urban than the US, so if everything else was equal, Korea  would be doing a lot worse.

Nursing, right. Iím not looking for anyone to give me an ďanswerĒ so much as to get otherís thoughts. Thank you for sharing yours. And yeah, I know Korea has specific circumstances that make it particularly well-equipped to handle viral epidemics, but the US having legitimate reasons for not faring better doesnít negate any the danger. In fact, it lessens my hope that theyíll be able to make any meaningful headway against the virus until a vaccine is developed and widely available. (Pfizer had something of a breakthrough recently, I know.)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 09:22:05 am by Don Hobak »


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2020, 09:33:02 am »
Short trip over for the wife and kid, then a return flight back to Korea to finish up some business??

Yeah, I suppose thatís a decent backup plan. It would allow us (and her especially), to get some time on the ground and see how we feel about staying there without giving up our visa. Of course thereís a limit on how long we could wait it out in that scenario, but possibly long enough to see some real improvement concerning the virus.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2020, 10:15:23 am »
I just wanted to give my thoughts based on the lingering effects of the virus. From what I've read, the lasting side effects sound a LOT like the symptoms of an autoimmune disease. I am no expert, and even the experts don't have all the answers, so I'm not going to assume COVID gives people an autoimmune disease. However, as someone who has a couple of them and has to live with the symptoms every day, it's not easy, it can be debilitating, and I'd suggest avoiding an increased risk of getting these symptoms, no matter how small it is.


Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2020, 10:35:27 am »
I just wanted to give my thoughts based on the lingering effects of the virus. From what I've read, the lasting side effects sound a LOT like the symptoms of an autoimmune disease. I am no expert, and even the experts don't have all the answers, so I'm not going to assume COVID gives people an autoimmune disease. However, as someone who has a couple of them and has to live with the symptoms every day, it's not easy, it can be debilitating, and I'd suggest avoiding an increased risk of getting these symptoms, no matter how small it is.

Thank you for that. Yeah, I have a history of JIA which makes a severe reaction to the virus more likely, but it has long been in remission (I think?) and Iím not taking and drugs for it. My daughter has rather mild atopic dermatitis that is controlled without much use of medication (some topical hydrocortisone here and there). It seems that those with cardiovascular disease, diabetes, chronic respiratory disease, or cancer are at the highest risk.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 10:39:09 am by Don Hobak »


  • fka
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Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2020, 11:20:21 am »
Quote
I can't just go and get a Covid test for peace of mind without symptoms

Not sure where you live, but in Seoul you most definitely can do this.

Quote
I just wanted to give my thoughts based on the lingering effects of the virus. From what I've read, the lasting side effects sound a LOT like the symptoms of an autoimmune disease. I am no expert, and even the experts don't have all the answers, so I'm not going to assume COVID gives people an autoimmune disease. However, as someone who has a couple of them and has to live with the symptoms every day, it's not easy, it can be debilitating, and I'd suggest avoiding an increased risk of getting these symptoms, no matter how small it is.

This is true. Someone close to me (42 years old, non-smoker, normal weight, no outstanding health problems) caught COVID-19 and had terrifying symptoms long after the initial fever and headache. Breathing problems, rashes, extreme fatigue, brain fog, etc. The rashes still appear randomly, possibly a result of histamine hypersensitivity caused by mast-cell activation.

Yes, for many people, it may feel like a cold or flu, but downplaying its severity really does the world a massive disservice.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

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    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2020, 11:35:34 am »
Some who test positive for coronavirus didnít even know they had it. Commonly NOTHING will happen if you catch it. Very healthy people arenít even mildly inconvenienced by it. The infection is neutralized quickly. And the length of being contagious is drastically shortened.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5337

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Is it insane to leave Korea right now?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2020, 11:38:02 am »