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  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1730

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #100 on: December 11, 2020, 02:13:43 pm »
Why not? Are American or Western politics immune to political machinations or coup attempts?
Are you seriously trying to equate the Soviet political system with the American one? I mean, if it's tongue-in-cheek, then you earned yourself a lol. If you're serious... well...



What makes a coup a coup is the intent. The law is simply a tool that is used. It is designed to remove the current leader in power outside the standard means with the goal of a certain faction in seizing power.
Nononono.

Look it up in a dictionary. It's all about the legality.
The wiki on "coup d'état" has some interesting reading on the subject, actually.
Anyway, for a change in leadership to qualify as a coup, it's generally agreed that you need "illegal and overt attempts by the military or other elites within the state apparatus to unseat the sitting executive."
Otherwise it's just a change in leadership. Like what happened here in Korea recently. That wasn't a coup.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean about how it depends on intent. I wouldn't mind hearing more about your ideas on that, if you feel the inclination.

The law can be whatever it wants to be....
And yet, they never removed Mr. Trump from office. Because they couldn't. Because the law wouldn't allow them to. Because they couldn't change the law to suit their wants. Checks and balances and all that, I guess. Good things, those.


The rhetoric of "It's all such a crock of sh!t!" isn't very convincing, btw. Leave that for FB, please.
Citing relevant information from reliable sources to support your opinions is probably the best way to go, here.

Oh, and imho, South Korea would probably continue to negotiate with any incumbent American administration. Even if it came out that they were in league with Russia. Or worse yet, in league with Japan! They don't really have much choice, unfortunately.  :sad:
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 02:19:36 pm by Kyndo »


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #101 on: December 11, 2020, 02:33:59 pm »
1. That assumes that Trump/GOP commits the coup and not the other way around (although at this point, yeah, it's more likely Trump would, but if by some magical dust it materializes that in fact there was some sort of substantive election fraud and Trump actually won, then it would be the other way around. Again, it was the Dems+Never Trump Rs that already attempted a soft coup.
I mean the boldest assumption I'm making is that a coup happens in the first place, lol. I'm sure Trump will posture his way out of office but I doubt there's going to be any serious opposition to Biden's victory once all the lawsuits fall through. He'll probably keep mouthing off about being cheated but nobody in mainstream media will take it seriously, so it'll matter. If Biden is sworn in, just ignore him. Maybe Dorsey will actually ban him from twitter too.


If you love the country, you can hate Trump, but you also should raise a very skeptical eye at the whole process that went down. The next time, it may target a progressive who wants to reform the system and might propose such shocking things as trimming the military budget by 50% and instead focusing on health care and infrastructure. The same tactics that were used against Trump will be used against them. War, Inc. does not play around.
Oh, I'm sure they will, but they've already been doing that (see Iowa caucus).


2. Be careful for what you wish for on Mitch. There's a lot worse out there than Mitch, trust me. And there's no way Romney or Sasse will be majority leader now. Heck, Mitch is considered squishy by the Trump base.
Honestly I'd almost take worse over boring at this point


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #102 on: December 11, 2020, 02:37:57 pm »
And yet, they never removed Mr. Trump from office. Because they couldn't. Because the law wouldn't allow them to. Because they couldn't change the law to suit their wants. Checks and balances and all that, I guess. Good things, those.

They didn't remove Trump from office because

1) majority Republican senate
2) if they kicked Trump for reasons listed, the Republicans would be able to do the same to a Democrat at some theoretical future point in time

I guess that sort of qualifies as checks and balances in a way. If politics ever gets to the point where the politicians themselves are as polarized as their constituents, I'm sure one of the parties will say **** it and really try to screw the other regardless of cost to themselves. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending how you see it) politicians right now don't really mean half the things they say about each other when the cameras are on.


Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #103 on: December 11, 2020, 06:57:25 pm »
Oh, I'm sure they will, but they've already been doing that (see Iowa caucus).
Another good point. We already had a Dem party that put its finger on the scale while the Republicans, say what you will, had a fair and impartial primary in which they let the candidates duke it out and the voters to make their choice.

Doesn't that show a pattern of behavior by the Democrats? If they can't hold free, fair, impartial elections WITHIN their own party, why should we believe that they'll do it with the entire country?


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2546

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #104 on: December 11, 2020, 08:50:06 pm »
Another good point. We already had a Dem party that put its finger on the scale while the Republicans, say what you will, had a fair and impartial primary in which they let the candidates duke it out and the voters to make their choice.

Doesn't that show a pattern of behavior by the Democrats? If they can't hold free, fair, impartial elections WITHIN their own party, why should we believe that they'll do it with the entire country?

Are you really putting "free, fair, impartial elections" on the table as a criticism of Democrats given the utter asshattery that Trump and the Republicans are pulling right now?

The Republicans want to overturn the "will of the people" and have Trump re-elected by his own political sycophants.

Get off your Trump fanboi high horse.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4427

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #105 on: December 11, 2020, 09:12:54 pm »
That will literally never happen (mainly since the "true story" has already been told, and was pretty ****** lame), and I'm pretty sure Martini isn't immortal.
You can be alive right now and know its a crock of shit- No country has treated as real. Just visit a foreign policy forum. No one talks like its real because those people aren't gullible sap idiots. They know it is all political theater.

If it was real, the rest if NATO would have implemented massive sanctions on Russia, blocked off the Black Sea and closed the Baltic, and the information would have been released in short order.

Not a bunch of vague statements and innuendo that were fodder for Rachel Maddow.

FFS, at least have half a brain in trying to figure out what is real and what is theater. Stop being such gullible saps and just regurgitating what CNN feeds you because you hate Orange Man.
Nope.  Countries do treat trump as a security threat. The Russian investigation into trump was begin by the FBI for entirely credible reasons.

I'm not going to argue with you.  You'll continue with this until doomsday,  no matter how wrong you are.


Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #106 on: December 12, 2020, 11:56:27 am »
I doubt Trump will run in 2024, the fallout from this election cycle will definitely put him off it. He might make some sort of symbolic attempt for his fanbase/ego but now he's got his term in and future book deal prospects I think he's happy.

Not sure what fallout you mean. 2/3 of Congressional Republicans back his bid to throw out the election results.

That book should be a lot of fun for his ghost writer  :lipsrsealed:

That plus his lack of motivation. If the corporate dems weren't fishing around for someone to prop up I honestly don't know if he'd have ran (and even then the dems were ready to drop him at any opportunity until it became clear he was their best bet)

Maybe it’s just some contrived corporate-backed origins story, but the cringe “Battle for the Soul of the Nation” slogan was actually Biden’s idea. Pretty sure he was independently motivated. He probably would have ran in 2016 if not for his grief and the embarrassment of not having the endorsement of his boss.


Oh I'm sure there's some sort of story there, but I highly doubt whatever story it is will keep Biden out of office.

No it won’t keep him out of office. If there’s a story I’m sure we’ve already heard most of it (along with a lot of fluffy BS), namely that his son is something of a POS making money off his dad’s name, but highly doubt anything is going to turn up that shows any impropriety by Sleepy Beijing himself even if there’s something funky in Hunter’s taxes, though it will be interesting to see how the Biden justice department handles his case after the handoff coup. No doubt it will serve as fodder for NewsMax or whatever until the next “but her emails!” controversy though.

Well, nobody's holding a gun to their head, but they have to if they want to preserve their careers. Which they do, and so they will. Not that it's a good thing, but at least if Trump attempts some sort of coup they're pretty likely to break our way.

I think the tacit implication is that if they don’t go along with Trump, they will at the very least get plenty of threats of guns to their heads, and this by the very people whose votes they need (assuming they’ll leave future elections up to the voters after this debacle).

Crenshaw is just young Trump but with an eyepatch, some political knowledge, and an actual agenda. Which makes him about 10x more dangerous than Trump since the main thing that held Trump in check was his own incompetence.   

Nothing like Trump whatsoever!

Congressman (i.e. political experience) with some political knowledge: deep-state swamp dweeb

Has a policy agenda: nerd

Competent: sleepy

Went to Tufts and Harvard: elitist cabal apparatchik

Not a billionaire: Loser!

10 years military service: Sucker! Rube!

Place of birth: Some Kenya-like country

Eyepatch: Worthy of nothing more than mockery. “Creepy Crenshaw” should easily stick then. Here, I’ll save Trump the trouble.

Neutralized

« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 11:59:52 am by Don Hobak »


Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #107 on: December 12, 2020, 12:45:11 pm »
Look it up in a dictionary. It's all about the legality.
The wiki on "coup d'état" has some interesting reading on the subject, actually.
Anyway, for a change in leadership to qualify as a coup, it's generally agreed that you need "illegal and overt attempts by the military or other elites within the state apparatus to unseat the sitting executive."
Otherwise it's just a change in leadership. Like what happened here in Korea recently. That wasn't a coup.

What about the recent Japanese soft-stool coup?

And yet, they never removed Mr. Trump from office. Because they couldn't. Because the law wouldn't allow them to. Because they couldn't change the law to suit their wants. Checks and balances and all that, I guess. Good things, those.

Generally agreed upon as good, but not always the unshakeable girders we expect them to be.

“What Really Saved the Republic From Trump?”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/opinion/trump-constitution-norms.html?0p19G=2103

@Marty
Why weren’t those who staged the attempted Trump coup tried for treason after their effort was thwarted? Seems like the only fitting charge for such a heinous crime. Adam Schiff still walks free. :shocked:


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1730

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #108 on: December 13, 2020, 11:12:15 am »
What about the recent Japanese soft-stool coup?
Couldn't find any references to that!
...
...
...is it as scatological as it sounds?


Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #109 on: December 13, 2020, 03:36:21 pm »
Attempting to have a President removed under false pretenses is a soft coup. No different than having one "step down due to health".

Couldn't find any references to that!
...is it as scatological as it sounds?

Shinzo Abe recently “stepped down” due to “ulcerative colitis”, but it reeks of something foul if you ask me. And if the symptoms match the diagnosis, the answer to your question is a s-categorical yes.


Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #110 on: December 13, 2020, 04:38:19 pm »
Why weren’t those who staged the attempted Trump coup tried for treason after their effort was thwarted? Seems like the only fitting charge for such a heinous crime. Adam Schiff still walks free. :shocked:
The same reason they couldn't secure a conviction against Trump: Entrenched interests and balance of power means it's like moving lines back and forth across an entire front, ala WW1.

It's also the same reason the people who lied us into Iraq are not in prison and people like Comey and Clapper who lied about spying on the American public aren't in prison.

You do know that, right? Comey and Clapper, who are part of the group that made up this whole Russian mess, also had a hand in Iraq and were the direct leaders of the domestic American spying program, which they lied about under oath.
|
Or are you one of those people who is so ignorant and stupid that you only think stuff begins with Trump and have never bothered to look into the history of the people going after him?

Shinzo Abe recently “stepped down” due to “ulcerative colitis”, but it reeks of something foul if you ask me. And if the symptoms match the diagnosis, the answer to your question is a s-categorical yes.
Is it your claim that every head of state who has stepped down due to "health" has done so because they actually are in poor health and can't function?

Are you really that ignorant of history?


Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #111 on: December 13, 2020, 08:53:39 pm »
The same reason they couldn't secure a conviction against Trump: Entrenched interests and balance of power

Wait, I thought it was because the allegations were a crock of sh!t...

You do know that, right? Comey and Clapper, who are part of the group that made up this whole Russian mess, also had a hand in Iraq and were the direct leaders of the domestic American spying program, which they lied about under oath.

Yes, I’ve gone over Kyndo’s diagram several times now and as a student of history I’ll have you know that I can trace this conspiracy straight PAST Comey and Clapper to Nixon, if not as far back as Reagan himself.

are you one of those people who is so ignorant and stupid
This too

Is it your claim that every head of state who has stepped down due to "health" has done so because they actually are in poor health and can't function?

To steal a line from Trump himself, it was a joke, but if I had to explain it I guess the point is that once anything qualifies as a soft, hard, or poached coo day tah, you start to see them everywhere.

Are you really that ignorant

Yes already!  :cry:


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #112 on: December 15, 2020, 08:44:51 am »
Not sure what fallout you mean. 2/3 of Congressional Republicans back his bid to throw out the election results.
I mean yeah, but they'd do the same for any other Republican.

I was more referring to the fallout to his image (although to be fair I could have worded it better since that started well before *this* specific election cycle lol). Dude used to be actually pretty well-liked by the liberal New York crowd. A second term would obviously do very little to rehabilitate his image, and if he "wins" how he is trying to, the next president (assuming its a Democrat, which is statistically likely) might actually try to convict and sentence him to something more than a fine.


That book should be a lot of fun for his ghost writer  :lipsrsealed:
Thoughts and prayers for them.


Maybe it’s just some contrived corporate-backed origins story, but the cringe “Battle for the Soul of the Nation” slogan was actually Biden’s idea. Pretty sure he was independently motivated. He probably would have ran in 2016 if not for his grief and the embarrassment of not having the endorsement of his boss.
I'm sure his friends in the party managed to gas him up a little bit, maybe even enough for him to think of something like that. He did also want to run to make his sons proud. But wanting to be President for the sake of being President hardly counts as motivation. I guess Trump sort of did the same thing but Trump was also visibly on uppers at all of his rallies so at least there was the entertainment factor, plus he's better at brazenly lying.

He barely had Obama's endorsement this year, hell he pretty much didn't until it was obvious he would win the Democratic primaries. Even then Obama was still talking shit behind his back ("don't underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up")


No it won’t keep him out of office. If there’s a story I’m sure we’ve already heard most of it (along with a lot of fluffy BS), namely that his son is something of a POS making money off his dad’s name, but highly doubt anything is going to turn up that shows any impropriety by Sleepy Beijing himself even if there’s something funky in Hunter’s taxes, though it will be interesting to see how the Biden justice department handles his case after the handoff coup. No doubt it will serve as fodder for NewsMax or whatever until the next “but her emails!” controversy though.
Even if you extrapolate I don't think there's enough there for the Republicans to actually pursue anything. I'm sure some people will go on about it, but it'll be to no effect


I think the tacit implication is that if they don’t go along with Trump, they will at the very least get plenty of threats of guns to their heads, and this by the very people whose votes they need (assuming they’ll leave future elections up to the voters after this debacle).
All of Trump's court cases have been thrown out. If they try to seriously prop him up anyways they'll have the CIA gun to their head, which is a lot more than just a threat.


Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #113 on: December 15, 2020, 08:51:31 am »
In other news, it looks like Biden just *might* still have a chance to pull off a victory here. His campaign is breathing new life today, however fleeting it may be.


  • Adel
  • Expert Waygook

    • 849

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #114 on: December 16, 2020, 04:57:39 am »
For those who question the notion of a 'Trump Cult' and loyalty to the dear leader above everything else!

  www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTbW0mgSvUc

In other news Trump has been tweeting supporting for idea of locking up some Georgian Republicans for not supporting his crazy fraud conspiracy theories.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 07:13:34 am by Adel »


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2546

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #115 on: December 16, 2020, 08:06:49 am »
In other news, it looks like Biden just *might* still have a chance to pull off a victory here. His campaign is breathing new life today, however fleeting it may be.

Nah-uh! Until Biden is inaugurated, I think Donny still has a chance of winning.  We all know the Electoral College is a deep state institution stacked by radical-leftists.


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: TRUMP, YOU'RE FIRED!
« Reply #116 on: December 16, 2020, 08:11:30 am »
For those who question the notion of a 'Trump Cult' and loyalty to the dear leader above everything else!

Fuentes been a nutcase for a while, so its pretty sad to see he's redeeming himself in the eyes of some Republicans. That said the fact Fuentes is even being allowed to grift so hard off this movement says a lot about how much mainstream Republicans actually care about it

Trump definitely has some loyalists (Chris Christie types, etc). but I bet most of the people at those rallies are gonna pack it up and go home once Biden gets sworn in. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some of them will get up to something, but it'll be more isolated incidents rather than some grand Trumpism uprising.