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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #640 on: February 19, 2021, 10:24:21 am »
So can anyone actually give a coherent explanation as to what those statues do and what tearing them down will accomplish and what the next move is after that?


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #641 on: February 19, 2021, 10:38:08 am »
So can anyone actually give a coherent explanation as to what those statues do and what tearing them down will accomplish and what the next move is after that?

Make the place more interesting historically, nothing, they'll probably start going after street names, place names, school names etc. after that. As they're doing in the UK. Even someone as recent as JK Rowling is getting the treatment.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/sussex-school-names-change-churchill-rowling-b1801304.html





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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #642 on: February 19, 2021, 11:22:48 am »
So can anyone actually give a coherent explanation as to what those statues do and what tearing them down will accomplish and what the next move is after that?

Put them in a museum. End of story.


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #643 on: February 19, 2021, 11:42:14 am »
Put them in a museum. End of story.
If taking these statues out of a park and putting them in a museum is all that is required to defeat them, these statues weren't doing jack shit in the first place.

Please tell me what practical effect putting them in a museum will have?


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #644 on: February 19, 2021, 12:00:16 pm »
I guess museums could have a chamber of horrors style section where they could put all the depictions of anyone who owned a slave,  cracked a homophobic joke or misgendered someone with all kinds of warning signs lining the entrance. This would unfortunately have to take up about 90% of the museum's space


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #645 on: February 19, 2021, 12:27:38 pm »
The Parthenon is a temple of Athena and she's a goddess of warfare so tear it all down cuz war is bad and people died in wars and dying is a bad thing cuz people like living (mostly) and don't wanna be dead so Athena is bad and why is her temple even still standing? and I'm glad Notre Dame burned down cuz Catholics did bad things like paedo and inquiring and those are harmful so the fire was a blessing and I'm gonna go study punctuation now goodbye


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #646 on: February 19, 2021, 01:21:32 pm »
If taking these statues out of a park and putting them in a museum is all that is required to defeat them, these statues weren't doing jack shit in the first place.

Please tell me what practical effect putting them in a museum will have?

If the statues weren’t doing anything and served no purpose then why build them decades after the civil war ended?

What is it that you think they represent? To celebrate a war they lost? To celebrate their opposition to the abolishment of slavery? To celebrate defending “Southern heritage” against the Yankees?


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #647 on: February 19, 2021, 01:39:22 pm »
If the statues weren’t doing anything and served no purpose then why build them decades after the civil war ended?

What is it that you think they represent? To celebrate a war they lost? To celebrate their opposition to the abolishment of slavery? To celebrate defending “Southern heritage” against the Yankees?
That the statues served some purpose then does not mean they serve much of one now. Like, why don't you make another statue right across from it, giving them the finger or something?

Each statue was built for reasons that varied. From glorifying Southern slavery and racism to simply remembering dome general who led his troops well.

Pretty much any old Incan/Aztec/Mayan monument is connected to slavery and human sacrifice. Should we tear them down? Why do we not? Because no one is calling for Aztec Power outside of maybe some extreme Indigenous identity movement.

I know in your head there are untold millions of Nazis and White Supremacists out there and that Trump, because he advocated for immigration policies that would have been the default Democratic platform in 1996, is somehow Hitler, but that really isn't the case.

You talk about Trumpers being nuts, you're the one turning a disorganized violent riot into a coordinated coup attempt, imagining legions of Neo-Nazis, and thinking some pigeon-shit gathering statue of some long dead guy few know about is serving as a source of inspiration for White Supremacists.

You're at the level of moms who thought listening to Marilyn Manson would cause them to shoot up a school.


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #648 on: February 19, 2021, 01:52:57 pm »
You’re not making the point you think you’re making as usual.

You’re defending yourself against a point that no one else is making.

You post like you have two contrasting forces in your head constantly arguing with each other. You should see a doctor about it.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 01:56:08 pm by Savant »


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #649 on: February 19, 2021, 01:53:53 pm »
Make the place more interesting historically, nothing, they'll probably start going after street names, place names, school names etc. after that. As they're doing in the UK. Even someone as recent as JK Rowling is getting the treatment.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/sussex-school-names-change-churchill-rowling-b1801304.html
Winston was an SOB, but he was our SOB and things might have gone rather poorly if not for him.

Sorry, but whether someone is racist or not is not their defining characteristic (much of the time, but in many cases it can be).


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #650 on: February 19, 2021, 01:57:49 pm »
You post like you have two contrasting forces in your head constantly arguing with each other. You should see a doctor about it.
Actually, if you have only one view and can see only one perspective, the problem is with you.

You call that a weakness of mine? I disagree. It's a strength. I would haye not to have two different views clashing with each other and only see one side of things.

You need to learn that things like conservatism and liberalism are complimentary, not competitive.

Anyways I'm glad that the idea that there are multiple views/sides/takes/things to consider comes across. It means my writing is reflecting my own thinking.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 02:00:09 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #651 on: February 19, 2021, 02:10:45 pm »
Winston was an SOB, but he was our SOB and things might have gone rather poorly if not for him.

Sorry, but whether someone is racist or not is not their defining characteristic (much of the time, but in many cases it can be).

"Mr. Churhchill didn't like ethnic minorities."

And I'm sure if you were an upper-crust British man in his 70s during the first half of the 20th Century you'd have a TONNE of black friends, no doubt. hahaha


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #652 on: February 19, 2021, 02:47:26 pm »
I for one am upset at all the people who grew up between 300,000 AD and 1900 and were practically encouraged to conquer and smash the next tribe over, and ended up being somewhat racist.

It's 100% their fault they didn't grow up in a liberal western country post-1965 (really post-1980). How dare they not be obsessed with racial equality, gender equality, and instead be more focused on not getting invaded by the Kaiser or succumbing to Bilious Fever at the age of 4.


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #653 on: February 19, 2021, 02:49:19 pm »
Actually, if you have only one view and can see only one perspective, the problem is with you.

You call that a weakness of mine? I disagree. It's a strength. I would haye not to have two different views clashing with each other and only see one side of things.

You need to learn that things like conservatism and liberalism are complimentary, not competitive.

Anyways I'm glad that the idea that there are multiple views/sides/takes/things to consider comes across. It means my writing is reflecting my own thinking.

Your thinking is not complimentary but divisive.

If the answer was “Apples or oranges?” you would go on a long tirade about why pears are excluded from this line of thinking.

Your thinking is the problem.


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #654 on: February 19, 2021, 04:35:44 pm »
Your thinking is not complimentary but divisive.

Your thinking is the problem.
If someone asked "What about pears?" I'd laugh, not accuse them of having thought problems.


If the answer was “Apples or oranges?” you would go on a long tirade about why pears are excluded from this line of thinking. Like if an elementary student asked that, would you bark and shout at them to stick to oranges or apples or would you be happy they brought up pears and expressed their own individual preference and added a new perspective?

Your example said more about you than me.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 04:41:51 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #655 on: February 19, 2021, 10:39:16 pm »
So can anyone actually give a coherent explanation as to what those statues do and what tearing them down will accomplish and what the next move is after that?
They memorialize and celebrate traitors.  Tearing them down will acknowledge their treason and will stop present and future generations from viewing slavery in the US through a distorted lens. The next move is to replace them with statues of real heroes who deserve being memorialized.


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #656 on: February 20, 2021, 02:56:32 am »
Your thinking is not complimentary but divisive.

If the answer was “Apples or oranges?” you would go on a long tirade about why pears are excluded from this line of thinking.

Your thinking is the problem.

When faced with these two options Marti would go off on a wide ranging tirade arguing that pears are indeed both apples and oranges while at the same time being both inferior and superior. He would then provide links that refer to avocados and mangoes to buttress his support for this argument. At some stage in the tirade he would accuse his opponents of being in favour of bananas when they were suggesting apples. 
After being mocked, ridiculed and eventually ignored Marti would attempt a victory lap!  :laugh:


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #657 on: February 20, 2021, 09:51:50 am »
They memorialize and celebrate traitors.  Tearing them down will acknowledge their treason and will stop present and future generations from viewing slavery in the US through a distorted lens. The next move is to replace them with statues of real heroes who deserve being memorialized.
Dude, I think you're way overstating the impact of these statues.

It's 2021.

"Everyone on tiktok, instagram, and youtube denounces slavery and racism, and I was about to donate to BLM but then I walked past this statue of Felix K. Zollikoffer and decided to start supporting slavery."


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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #658 on: February 20, 2021, 04:50:58 pm »
I don't think that the issue is necessarily about impact: it's about contrition, and the admission that society has changed in such a way that the values that the statues are associated with are no longer mainstream.



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Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #659 on: February 20, 2021, 11:36:45 pm »
Dude, I think you're way overstating the impact of these statues.

It's 2021.

"Everyone on tiktok, instagram, and youtube denounces slavery and racism, and I was about to donate to BLM but then I walked past this statue of Felix K. Zollikoffer and decided to start supporting slavery."
Dude,  what kind of shovel do you use for all this BS you peddle?