Potential for Violence

trump has praised the use of violence.

Hasn't it been far right terrorists that have been charged in a significant proportion of cases of violence and arson at these protests...includin g the murders of at least 2 police officers in separate incidents?

No.

Conflate protest and violence much?

Conflate protest and violence much?

First two are fine (in terms of encouraging protest not violence), the third one in particular is pushing it a bit imho.

By the way, if you see this book for sale anywhere, feel free to walk out of the shop with it, without paying. 

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What’s going on politically in Ireland these days, just for comparison’s sake.

No.

At around 9:44 pm on May 29, 2020, an initially unknown assailant (later identified as Carrillo) fired a rifle out of the sliding door of a white van, striking security personnel stationed outside the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building in Oakland, California.[8][9][10][11] Two Triple Canopy security officers contracted with the Federal Protective Service were shot, resulting in the death of David Patrick Underwood and the serious injury to the other.

On June 6, 2020, Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Department deputies arrived at Carrillo's residence in Ben Lomond, California. In response, Carrillo allegedly fired at the deputies with an AR-15 style rifle, seriously injuring one deputy and killing Sheriff Sergeant Damon Gutzwiller.[14][17] Two nearby California Highway Patrol officers responded to the scene, and were met with gunfire, wounding one officer. Deputies and officers were also attacked with improvised explosive devices.

...

Acting Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Ken Cuccinelli described the Oakland shooting as an "act of domestic terrorism".[26] The FBI announced on June 16 that Steven Carrillo was associated with the boogaloo movement and that he and Justus had deliberately chosen the night of protests in Oakland for cover for the May 29 attack. The FBI agent-in-charge of the investigation stated, "There is no evidence that these men had any intention to join the demonstration in Oakland. They came to Oakland to kill cops."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_boogaloo_killings#Santa_Cruz_County,_California_attack

A sworn affidavit by the FBI underlying the complaint reveals new details about a far-right anti-government group’s coordinated role in the violence that roiled through civil unrest over Floyd’s death while in police custody.

Ivan Harrison Hunter, a 26-year-old from Boerne, Texas, is charged with one count of interstate travel to incite a riot for his alleged role in ramping up violence during the protests in Minneapolis on May 27 and 28. According to charges, Hunter, wearing a skull mask and tactical gear, shot 13 rounds at the south Minneapolis police headquarters while people were inside. He also looted and helped set the building ablaze, according to the complaint, which was filed Monday under seal.

https://www.startribune.com/charges-boogaloo-bois-fired-on-mpls-precinct-shouted-justice-for-floyd/572843802/

Three former US servicemen and self-proclaimed members of the far-right "boogaloo" movement were arrested on domestic terrorism charges and accused of carrying unregistered firearms and trying to spark violence during protests against police brutality.


https://www.businessinsider.com/3-boogaloo-men-terror-charges-george-floyd-protest-riot-conspiracy-2020-6

Thirteen men, seven of them associated with an anti-government militia group called the Wolverine Watchmen, associated with the so-called "boogaloo" movement, have been arrested on charges of conspiring to kidnap the Michigan governor, attack the state legislature and threaten law enforcement, prosecutors said on Thursday.

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/boogaloo-movement-linked-to-group-accused-of-trying-to-kidnap-michigan-governor-1.9226511

Yep...totally no far right people associated with terrorism, murder, arson etc during these protests 

You know the kidnap plotters were of mixed ideology, right?
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/09/alleged-kidnapper-posted-anti-trump-video/5940296002/

Anyways, are you seriously trying to suggest the mass riots and unrest were all due to right-wingers? How nuts do you have to be to believe that? That's InfoWars territory.

Anyways, are you seriously trying to suggest the mass riots and unrest were all due to right-wingers? How nuts do you have to be to believe that? That's InfoWars territory.

I believe that he was asserting that Right-wingers were responsible for "a significant proportion of cases of violence and arson at these protests."

I suppose that could be accurate, depending on how one defines a "significant proportion". 

I believe that he was asserting that Right-wingers were responsible for "a significant proportion of cases of violence and arson at these protests."

I suppose that could be accurate, depending on how one defines a "significant proportion". 

Don’t present Marty with the opportunity to shift the goalposts again and make his own made-up definition of what “significant” means.

Right-wing militia groups present a much greater threat than antifa which isn’t even an organized group.

But that's exactly my strategy. I figure that if I can tire 'em out by having them run back and forth with goal posts, they'll be too exhausted to score any points of their own!

But that's exactly my strategy. I figure that if I can tire 'em out by having them run back and forth with goal posts, they'll be too exhausted to score any points of their own!

That’s a new deescalation strategy being implemented by newly defunded and cash-strapped police departments   

Don’t present Marty with the opportunity to shift the goalposts again and make his own made-up definition of what “significant” means.

Right-wing militia groups present a much greater threat than antifa which isn’t even an organized group.

Are you seriously suggesting right-wing militias are responsible for months of sustained riots?

You think those businesses in DC and NYC, hotbeds of Trump support, are boarding up because of militias?

Dude, I can admit that there are some  Trump yahoos out there who might try and shoot up a place. I specifically cited that. But you are so far gone that you cannot even admit that those stores are being boarded up in deep blue cities because they fear leftists will flip out when Trump wins.

Savant, you don't lose the entire argument just because you acknowledge some things on your side aren't good. This seems to be a common phenomenon- Some poster will make a general argument against say, Trump or Korea, and then posters like you or MayorHaggar will come along and make a completely ridiculous one, usually it seems, without you guys thinking it through. Then, instead of acknowledging it, you knuckle down and get stuck in untenable positions when you could just take an easy out.

That's why I say right upfront, "Yes, Trump is a liar and a conman."  It's not just because it's true, it's also because I'm not going to get stuck in an argument where I am forced to claim that Trump is some paragon of virtue.

In other words, it's okay to admit that a bunch of left-leaning dipshit college-aged kids are causing some violence and destruction, and yeah, they lean left. What that has to do with the average Biden voter in suburbia or at the retirement home is beyond me, but apparently you seem to be falling in the right-wing trap and seeing them as all linked. I don't associate some deranged militia man with millions of Trump voters and I don't associate some dipshit college kid with some suburban mom who votes Biden.

Conflate protest and violence much?

Counterpoint: If Trump said those things (or Trump HAS said similar things), people would call it a call for violence. Like seriously, if Trump said those things to his supporters, it would be all over the news as Trump calling for violence and intimidation by his thuggish supporters. Dems say it? The media is like "No, they're just encouraging you to speak truth to power." or "It's protest, not violence."

Look, you can't have it both ways. Either it's okay for Trump AND Dem leaders to talk like that or neither should, but you have to apply the same standard across the board.

I say, as long as it isn't an explicit call for violence, we have to let it slide, under our current standards of speech.

You know the kidnap plotters were of mixed ideology, right?
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/10/09/alleged-kidnapper-posted-anti-trump-video/5940296002/

Anyways, are you seriously trying to suggest the mass riots and unrest were all due to right-wingers? How nuts do you have to be to believe that? That's InfoWars territory.

It's almost like you can't comprehend the fact that just like there are left wingers that detest Biden...there are also right wingers that detest Trump.

This doesn't make them any less right wing...and so far it's ORGANISED RIGHT WING GROUPS that have been found to be instigating a significant proportion of violence at these Protests...in addition to:

*police tactics
*some bone head leftists (seemingly a much smaller proportion than the right wing groups that have been outed so far).

Do you understand how easy it is to rule up a crowd and instigate a riot? Probably not.

This doesn't make them any less right wing...and so far it's ORGANISED RIGHT WING GROUPS that have been found to be instigating a significant proportion of violence at these Protests...in addition to:

From the article-

"Especially with groups like the boogaloo boys, which are primarily anti-government, you can get both white supremacists and left-leaning anarchists in the same group,"

He was left-wing. Again, why is it so hard to admit that?

that have been found to be instigating a significant proportion of violence at these Protests

If by significant you mean a small fraction of the number of incidents.

Do you understand how easy it is to rule up a crowd and instigate a riot? Probably not.

Do you apply the same logic to right-wing violence? How do you know that they wren't riled up by LEFTISTS who were instigating? By YOUR own logic, that is certainly a possibility.

If you're so confident that it's not leftwingers causing violence, why don't you put on a MAGA hat and walk through a college campus or Portland.

Now do the same with a Biden hat through some random small town in America or at a factory. Completely different reaction.

I swear we've had this exact conversation before in another thread

I swear we've had this exact conversation before in another thread

Probably even about 8 years ago on Dave’s.

If you're so confident that it's not leftwingers causing violence, why don't you put on a MAGA hat and walk through a college campus or Portland.

Now do the same with a Biden hat through some random small town in America or at a factory. Completely different reaction.

Conjecture is not the argument you seek.