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  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5245

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #100 on: November 13, 2020, 03:32:08 am »
Inquiring about the methodology regarding a claim is not a "Red Herring", it is called "appropriate scrutiny".
It's called a derail.


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #101 on: November 13, 2020, 04:55:14 am »
Though people are fighting to demand the election be fair and fraud examined, I have yet to see and Trump supporters kill anyone, smash businesses, burn down buildings, and violently attack people.  Though given how violent antifa and blm have been I can hardly blame them for being armed.  That said, because the other side thinks they won, they aren't paying these leftist agitators to be out there right now. 

Point is Trump supporters are mostly non violent.  But, the other side are.  When the results flip, they will be out losing their bananas unless it gets too cold this winter. 

Between 2007-2017 extremists of every stripe have killed 372 Americans. 74 percent of those killings were committed by right wing extremists.
Only 2 percent of those deaths were at the hands of left wing extremists.

From:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/08/17/are-antifa-and-the-alt-right-equally-violent/

---

Murder victims of the Alt Right/White Supremacy in 2017:

Heather Heyer
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/us/charlottesville-heather-heyer-profile/index.html

Taliesin Namkai Meche
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/05/max_stabbing_victim_attended_r_1.html#incart_big-photo

Ricky Best
http://taskandpurpose.com/ricky-best-one-2-men-killed-portland-stabbing-army-veteran/

Richard Collins III
https://www.thenation.com/article/lynching-university-maryland-campus/

Timothy Caughman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabbing_of_Timothy_Caughman

Srinivas Kuchibhotla
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Olathe,_Kansas_shooting

Casey Marquez & Francisco Fernandez
https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-mexico-school-shooter-had-secret-life-on-pro-trump-white-supremacy-sites

Charles Davis
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/alt-righter-seattle4truth-charged-killing-father-over-conspiracy-theories

Officer Zackari Parrish
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/01/us/colorado-shooting-suspect-military-record/index.html

Buckley Kuhn-Fricker & Scott Fricker
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/teen-charged-with-killing-girlfriends-parents-they-had-worried-he-was-a-neo-nazi/2017/12/23/e2102894-e761-11e7-833f-155031558ff4_story.html?utm_term=.32ba34f2ae29

The 6 Victims of the Quebec City mosque shooting:
Ibrahima Barry, Mamadou Tanou Barry, Khaled Belkacemi, Aboubaker Thabti, Abdelkrim Hassane, and Azzedine Soufiane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City_mosque_shooting

Murder Victims of the Far Left or Antifa in 2017:


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #102 on: November 13, 2020, 04:56:34 am »
Murder victims of the Alt Right/White Supremacy in 2018:

Blaze Bernstein
https://www.haaretz.com/blaze-bernstein-murder-suspect-displayed-hate-on-social-media-1.5751372

The 17 Victims of the Stoneman Douglas High School Shooting:
Alyssa Alhadeff, Scott Beigel, Martin Duque, Nicholas Dworet, Aaron Feis, Jaime Guttenberg,
Chris Hixon, Luke Hoyer, Cara Loughran, Gina Montalto, Joaquin Oliver, Alaina Petty,
Meadow Pollack, Helena Ramsay, Alex Schachter, Carmen Schentrup, and Peter Wang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneman_Douglas_High_School_shooting

The 10 Victims of the Santa Fe High School Shooting:
Jared Conard Black, Shana Fisher, Christian Riley Garcia, Aaron Kyle McLeod, Glenda Anne Perkins,
Angelique Ramirez, Sabika Sheikh, Christopher Stone, Cynthia Tisdale, and Kimberly Vaughan
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/18/612286146/shooting-reported-at-high-school-near-houston

The 10 Victims of the Toronto Van Attack
Beutis Renuka Amarasinghe, Andrea Bradden, Geraldine Brady, So He Chung, Anne Marie D'Amico
Mary Elizabeth Forsyth, Chul Min "Eddie" Kang, Ji Hun Kim, Munir Najjar, and Dorothy Sewell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack

Sherell L. Lewis Jr
https://nypost.com/2018/05/31/motorist-brags-about-running-over-some-n-r-on-snapchat/

Jeremy Himmelman & Andrew Oneschuck
https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/suspect-in-tampa-neo-nazi-killings-returns-from-state-mental-hospital-20190326/

The 5 Victims of the Annapolis Capital Shooting:
Gerald Fischman, Rob Hiaasen, John McNamara, Rebecca Smith, and Wendi Winters
https://bluestatedaily.com/accused-annapolis-shooter-jarrod-ramos-was-inspired-by-the-alt-right-report/

Maurice Stallard & Vickie Lee Jones
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alleged-kroger-gunman-uttered-whites-don-t-kill-whites-witness-n924641

The 11 victims of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting:
Joyce Fienberg, Rich Gottfried, Rose Mallinger, Jerry Rabinowitz, Cecil Rosenthal, David Rosenthal,
Bernice Simon, Sylvan Simon, Daniel Stein, Melvin Wax, & Irving Younger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting

Dr. Nancy Van Vessem & Maura Binkley
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/us/yoga-studio-shooting-florida.html

Murder Victims of the Far Left or Antifa in 2018:




Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #104 on: November 13, 2020, 05:17:57 am »
Alt Right/White Supremacy plots:

The plot to bomb Somali immigrants:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/three-southwest-kansas-men-sentenced-prison-plotting-bomb-somali-immigrants-garden-city

Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr AKA the MAGA Bomber:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_mail_bombing_attempts

The Iowa woman who ran down a teen with a car because she was ‘Mexican’ & also attempted to kill an African American boy
https://www.thedailybeast.com/iowa-woman-nicole-marie-poole-franklin-hit-teen-with-car-because-she-was-mexican-police-say
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/12/24/us/iowa-woman-ran-over-girl-hit-black-child-trnd/index.html

Far Right planned mosque attacks:
https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/483358-far-right-group-in-germany-planned-mosque-attacks-report

Neo-Nazi plot to blow up a hospital:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neo-nazi-plot-to-blow-up-hospital-is-foiled-by-fbi-b7hgcf936

The Trucker who attempted to run over protestors:
https://www.insider.com/bogdan-vechirko-minneapolis-trucker-has-criminal-past-gave-to-trump-2020-6

The KKK leader who drove a truck into a BLM crowd:
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/virginia-man-who-plowed-his-truck-into-black-lives-matter-crowd-is-the-head-of-the-states-ku-klux-klan/

Black woman set on fire by white men:
https://www.revolt.tv/2020/6/25/21303243/black-woman-set-on-fire-madison

Attempted lynching of Vauhxx Booker:
https://bloomingtonian.com/2020/07/05/bloomington-man-threatened-with-noose-during-assault-at-lake-monroe/

Attempted kidnapping plot of Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_plot


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #105 on: November 13, 2020, 05:19:31 am »
Twitter suspends account of white nationalist group posing as antifa:
https://www.cnet.com/news/twitter-suspends-account-white-nationalist-group-posing-as-antifa/

White supremacy groups try to infiltrate recent protests and influence the narrative:
https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/press-play-with-madeleine-brand/la-attorney-resists-the-call-to-reopen-courts-amid-covid-19/white-supremacy-protests

3 with ties to white extremism accused of plotting mayhem at protests:
https://www.ajc.com/news/with-ties-white-extremism-accused-plotting-mayhem-protests/GdtpTjwVaapgVZihVtNWeI/

Far-right extremists showing up at BLM protests behind the violence:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article243553662.html

White agitators bringing arson to a George Floyd protest:
https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/06/04/white-arsonists-george-floyd-protests/

Threat of "lethal violence" from "lone offenders" motivated by race:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/intelligence-bulletin-warning-protest-related-violence-makes-mention/story?id=71166595

Richmond riots instigated by white supremacists:
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/white-supremacists-posing-as-blm-protesters-instigated-richmond-riots-police/

Proud Boys’ brutally beat Black Lives Matter protesters after Trump Parade:
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/watch-proud-boys-brutally-beat-black-lives-matter-protesters-after-trump-parade/

Leaked Messages Show Far-Right Group's Plans for Portland Violence:
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/09/23/patriot-coalition-far-right-chat-logs-violence/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/23/oregon-portland-pro-trump-protests-violence-texts

Oregon sheriff tells militia members to "have fun killing antifa"
 https://twitter.com/cascadianphotog/status/1304665240412413957?s=21

Police arrest Proud Boy protester who pointed gun at Portland rally:
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/30/police-arrest-far-right-protester-who-pointed-gun-at-portland-rally/


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4539

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #106 on: November 13, 2020, 05:59:42 am »
He's just going to come back a few pages later and regurgitate the same bull about not seeing any violence from Trump supporters.


  • gogators!
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5245

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #107 on: November 16, 2020, 01:30:35 am »
Quote
As protests over police brutality and racial justice broke out this summer, often resulting in harsh responses from law enforcement, police officers across the country have been accused of favoring a violent extremist group that took to the streets to oppose those demonstrators.

The latest example of a cozy relationship between law enforcement and the far-right Proud Boys happened in the nation's capital last week when the Metropolitan Police responded to a stabbing involving members of the Proud Boys and an associate.

Provocateur Bevelyn Beatty and the chairman of the Proud Boys, who was with her, told police they were both stabbed by people associated with Black Lives Matter in a street fight early the morning after the presidential election. The Metropolitan Police Department repeated their claim to media outlets, leading to headlines around the country claiming Black Lives Matter had attacked the Proud Boys.

There's no evidence Black Lives Matter had anything to do with the incident. Police officials have since walked back their initial statements, saying it's unclear whether anyone involved was affiliated with political groups.

The department's willingness to echo the accusations of the Proud Boys is another example of law enforcement's deference to the group, said Michael German, a former FBI special agent who is now a fellow with the Brennan Center for Justice’s Liberty and National Security Program.
So we've got the police supporting these groups, and don't forget the military.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4539

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #108 on: November 16, 2020, 02:09:20 am »
Remember, these are the same right wing terrorist groups that are KILLING POLICE OFFICERS.

So much for blue lives matter...isn't it ironic that the people the police choose to align themselves with are the ones literally killing them?


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #109 on: November 16, 2020, 02:48:58 am »
Remember, these are the same right wing terrorist groups that are KILLING POLICE OFFICERS.
Actually these aren't but whatever. Lumping every vaguely right-wing group or person together as a "white nationalist" is as idiotic as lumping every Iraqi with an AK-47 together as a "terrorist."


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #110 on: November 16, 2020, 02:50:48 am »
Twitter suspends account of white nationalist group posing as antifa:
https://www.cnet.com/news/twitter-suspends-account-white-nationalist-group-posing-as-antifa/

White supremacy groups try to infiltrate recent protests and influence the narrative:
https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/press-play-with-madeleine-brand/la-attorney-resists-the-call-to-reopen-courts-amid-covid-19/white-supremacy-protests

3 with ties to white extremism accused of plotting mayhem at protests:
https://www.ajc.com/news/with-ties-white-extremism-accused-plotting-mayhem-protests/GdtpTjwVaapgVZihVtNWeI/

Far-right extremists showing up at BLM protests behind the violence:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article243553662.html

White agitators bringing arson to a George Floyd protest:
https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/06/04/white-arsonists-george-floyd-protests/

Threat of "lethal violence" from "lone offenders" motivated by race:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/intelligence-bulletin-warning-protest-related-violence-makes-mention/story?id=71166595

Richmond riots instigated by white supremacists:
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/white-supremacists-posing-as-blm-protesters-instigated-richmond-riots-police/

Proud Boys’ brutally beat Black Lives Matter protesters after Trump Parade:
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/watch-proud-boys-brutally-beat-black-lives-matter-protesters-after-trump-parade/

Leaked Messages Show Far-Right Group's Plans for Portland Violence:
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/09/23/patriot-coalition-far-right-chat-logs-violence/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/23/oregon-portland-pro-trump-protests-violence-texts

Oregon sheriff tells militia members to "have fun killing antifa"
 https://twitter.com/cascadianphotog/status/1304665240412413957?s=21

Police arrest Proud Boy protester who pointed gun at Portland rally:
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/30/police-arrest-far-right-protester-who-pointed-gun-at-portland-rally/
Good now do a list of left-wing incidents. You get the same smattering of fringe lunatics that have little to do with, nor are representative of the left.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4539

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #111 on: November 16, 2020, 08:31:34 am »
Actually these aren't but whatever. Lumping every vaguely right-wing group or person together as a "white nationalist" is as idiotic as lumping every Iraqi with an AK-47 together as a "terrorist."

Of course they aren't.

Based off nothing but your own conjecture, your ignoring the fact that the proud boys leadership openly came out as white supremacist last week (surprise!)...and of course you ignoring every bit of information presented to you demonstrating these groups as the right wing white nationalists they are.

But you apparently refuse to believe this because some of them might have worn a peace symbol on their clothing at some point, and some might also have black/latino/asian/lgbtq/Jewish friends.


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #112 on: November 16, 2020, 11:17:34 am »
Of course they aren't.

Based off nothing but your own conjecture, your ignoring the fact that the proud boys leadership openly came out as white supremacist last week (surprise!)...and of course you ignoring every bit of information presented to you demonstrating these groups as the right wing white nationalists they are.

But you apparently refuse to believe this because some of them might have worn a peace symbol on their clothing at some point, and some might also have black/latino/asian/lgbtq/Jewish friends.
You said "these are the same groups that killed police officers"

You lumped them all together.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4539

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #113 on: November 16, 2020, 11:37:29 am »
Proud Boys...Boogaloo Bois = right wing extremist terrorist (and white supremacist) GROUPS.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 4556

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2020, 11:50:19 am »
Antifa...BLM...othe r Marxist groups.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3023

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2020, 01:38:02 pm »
Antifa...BLM...other Marxist groups.

I have never, ever, even one time heard a BLM person advocate for the dissolution of privately-owned business in favor of workers' control of the means of production. 

My impression is they want honky cops to hang up poppin' on bruthahs.


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2020, 02:53:13 pm »
I have never, ever, even one time heard a BLM person advocate for the dissolution of privately-owned business in favor of workers' control of the means of production. 

My impression is they want honky cops to hang up poppin' on bruthahs.
Some do advocate for forced redistribution of wealth and resources, particularly along racial lines.

In fairness pretty much everything in one way or another is a forced redistribution of wealth and resources. Is alleged racial victimhood any better or worse than any other reason given?

So their reasoning is probably as valid as any others. I just suspect their execution would be deeply flawed and unsustainable.


Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #117 on: November 16, 2020, 02:54:26 pm »
Proud Boys...Boogaloo Bois = right wing extremist terrorist (and white supremacist) GROUPS.
Iraqi Resistance....Sadda m=Al-Qaeda!

The same dumb logic that people always use to tie together various ideological organizations that they disagree worth. Kevin Bacon them to the single worst example.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 3023

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #118 on: November 16, 2020, 03:08:49 pm »
Some do advocate for forced redistribution of wealth and resources, particularly along racial lines.

Well, I am a philatelist.  I like to read books, too.  While at a philatelist's convention, i would not talk of my love of reading books (unless those books were about stamp).

A person can be a BLM member and a Marxist, but redistributing wealth talk would be divergent from BLMming.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4539

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Potential for Violence
« Reply #119 on: November 16, 2020, 04:53:12 pm »
Iraqi Resistance....Sadda m=Al-Qaeda!

The same dumb logic that people always use to tie together various ideological organizations that they disagree worth. Kevin Bacon them to the single worst example.

Keep going.

You, obviously in your infinite knowledge on the matter, know better than those actually researching said groups.

And you definitely know more about said groups than the groups themselves...taking their actions and beliefs into account.