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  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 598

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada
'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« on: October 22, 2020, 01:37:34 pm »

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20201021000830

"At the center of the dispute is a clause in the legislation that effectively bans workers from changing workplaces. "

"Tied to employers by contract, visa"


Isn't this exactly the same as an E-2 visa?  This is why I never felt
any remorse at teaching privates. If a system is bullshit and unjust
I have no qualms about cheating it.  Moreover, I can't believe the E-2
system is still in place, the fantastically low wages and the suckers
that still come here on a deal like this. WTF.


Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2020, 04:32:12 pm »
Its not quite slavery, but very similar to it.

Its 2020s form of indentured servitude.


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4669

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2020, 04:06:13 pm »
Most countries do not have easily transferable employment visas.

This impacts some workers more than others, and is particularly acute with travel restrictions in many countries.


Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2020, 11:55:30 am »
If you sign a contract which has terms or conditions you are not happy with it is called stupidity, not slavery.
Does your wife submit to you?


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2609

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2020, 11:56:55 am »
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20201021000830

"At the center of the dispute is a clause in the legislation that effectively bans workers from changing workplaces. "

"Tied to employers by contract, visa"


Isn't this exactly the same as an E-2 visa?  This is why I never felt
any remorse at teaching privates. If a system is bullshit and unjust
I have no qualms about cheating it.  Moreover, I can't believe the E-2
system is still in place, the fantastically low wages and the suckers
that still come here on a deal like this. WTF.

Not quite the same as E2.  But wages do need to rise if Korea wants experienced teachers.  As for kids coming over for it now, they're dumber than rocks.  With inflation most of us made 15 years ago 2.8 to 3.0 million won in today's money (which was 2.1 to 2.3 million won back then).  A 2.1 mil job is barely above minimum wage.  A shame newbies don't wake up or have some denial cop out excuse for taking a low wage.

Anyways, as for these other workers held in far far worse conditions.  There needs to be a reporting line where folks can also speak English and maybe translators in other languages.  Also employers caught at the extremes keeping them under lock and key, confiscating passports, not paying wages without releasing them, those employers should go to jail and face some hefty fines. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2609

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2020, 11:57:50 am »
If you sign a contract which has terms or conditions you are not happy with it is called stupidity, not slavery.

I doubt the contract says they will be locked up and not allowed to leave the premesis nor says the employers can skip paying them some months. 


  • SPQR
  • Expert Waygook

    • 598

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2020, 01:52:16 pm »
If you sign a contract which has terms or conditions you are not happy with it is called stupidity, not slavery.

Bullshit.  Most people aren't constitutional lawyers.


Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2020, 03:52:10 pm »
I love threads like this. Almost every time I can count on people blaming the working class whether it be immigrants and most comically,  other people in similar economic conditions as them  ( college students who have meager job prospects back home ) . As if you are somehow smarter or better because you think 2.8 is a more fair wage than 2.1 or 2.2. Arguing over crumbs from a table as if its some sort of moral victory. Capitalism relies on exploitation to keep the entire thing from collapsing.  Pointing the finger at other workers is missing the forest for the trees. But people are too busy arguing over how big their crumb is going to be...


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4614

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2020, 05:26:50 pm »
If you sign a contract which has terms or conditions you are not happy with it is called stupidity, not slavery.
contracts are often worded in such a way that there are loopholes for employers to take advantage of their employers, even if they seem fine when first reading through them. that's why laws exist- to protect people from bs


Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2020, 06:05:25 pm »
Not quite the same as E2.  But wages do need to rise if Korea wants experienced teachers.  As for kids coming over for it now, they're dumber than rocks.  With inflation most of us made 15 years ago 2.8 to 3.0 million won in today's money (which was 2.1 to 2.3 million won back then).  A 2.1 mil job is barely above minimum wage.  A shame newbies don't wake up or have some denial cop out excuse for taking a low wage.

Anyways, as for these other workers held in far far worse conditions.  There needs to be a reporting line where folks can also speak English and maybe translators in other languages.  Also employers caught at the extremes keeping them under lock and key, confiscating passports, not paying wages without releasing them, those employers should go to jail and face some hefty fines. 

The wages wont rise because Korea's education system simply doesn't need experienced teachers. Having gone through the meat of my PGCE post-grad studies, it's quickly apparent the Korea actually doesn't have anything you could call an education system, particularly at the elementary school level. There's no English curriculum and if there is, it seems it's not important enough to provide to the NET or make them aware of.

The day you get a Korean minister who actually understands how a language should be taught and his the political will to change the system is the day Korea will be prepared to hire more qualified teachers.

That said, for many South Africans, 2.1mil is a lot. There are school principals back home who make less than that. Even from the US, you can't assume to know everyone's circumstances. If some 22yr old undergrad wants to accept 2.1mil because it'll mean she's closer to BTS, that's her choice. She's not keeping the wages down, the system is.

If Korea's English education system was up to standard, you think hagwons or public schools would be dicking around hiring people who've never set foot in a classroom before?


Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2020, 12:23:50 pm »
some 22yr old undergrad wants to accept 2.1mil because it'll mean she's closer to BTS, that's her choice. She's not keeping the wages down, the system is.



You are onto something. But it isn't a uniquely Korea problem. We have to ask ourselves why so many young people are having a tough time economically that they feel the need to come across the world to work for 15 bucks an hour. It's so easy to just say that Koreans don't want quality educators, but look at the crap show that is known as the U.S education system. It's the same deal there. Teachers are paid peanuts because they are not seen as things that can generate revenue. This is late stage capitalism. No time to pay fair wages to people if they aren't generating revenue. All of our value is based on how much profit we can generate.  It's amazing how people tap dance around this global problem. People blaming people below the economic ladder, across the economic ladder, blaming said country that others need to immigrate to just to make a buck.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2609

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2020, 12:04:49 pm »
I love threads like this. Almost every time I can count on people blaming the working class whether it be immigrants and most comically,  other people in similar economic conditions as them  ( college students who have meager job prospects back home ) . As if you are somehow smarter or better because you think 2.8 is a more fair wage than 2.1 or 2.2. Arguing over crumbs from a table as if its some sort of moral victory. Capitalism relies on exploitation to keep the entire thing from collapsing.  Pointing the finger at other workers is missing the forest for the trees. But people are too busy arguing over how big their crumb is going to be...

In any nation, when you let in too many outsiders in certain fields, it can drive down wages.  It's not racist, it's just economic reality.  Cesar Chavez was greeting illegal immigrants at the border with lead pipes.  He didn't want folks driving down his wages.  Whgen you got a family to feed, you can't blame them.   Modest immigration is always needed and can be a good things.  But mass surges not so much. 

Now, that said, there aren't that many 22 year olds who love BTS.  ANy young person who thinks 2.1 is a good wage is dumb.  And the US economy was surging before Covid and will again next year.  As I said, 2.1 in 2008 equals almost 3.0 million a month with inflation and this isn't counting the worse exchange rate that Americans get now.  An American before this time could end up with 1500 dollars a month in their bank account each month at that time.  Now, they are lucky to get 600 or 700, less than half that amount.  If your loan is 5 or 6 hundred dollars a month or more, it'll take all your spare money to pay it.  Forget saving or paying it off fast.  They are stupid because they aren't taking the time to do the math and to also factor in the cost of living.  A comparable salary in another country with cheaper living cost does allow for more savings, paying off the loan more quickly, starting a life back home.  (Of course rich kids where mommy and daddy pay for everything may be a different factor where they don't need money and are driving down the wages for everyone.  They should get the crap kicked out of them.  Go backpack somewhere else.) 


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1139

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2020, 12:11:52 pm »
Now, that said, there aren't that many 22 year olds who love BTS.
you'd be surprised


  ANy young person who thinks 2.1 is a good wage is dumb. 
No.


And the US economy was surging before Covid and will again next year.
No.


As I said, 2.1 in 2008 equals almost 3.0 million a month with inflation and this isn't counting the worse exchange rate that Americans get now.  An American before this time could end up with 1500 dollars a month in their bank account each month at that time.  Now, they are lucky to get 600 or 700, less than half that amount. 
still better than they'd get stateside


If your loan is 5 or 6 hundred dollars a month or more, it'll take all your spare money to pay it.
at least it's paid


Forget saving or paying it off fast.  They are stupid because they aren't taking the time to do the math and to also factor in the cost of living.
how do you know they do not do this


 
A comparable salary in another country with cheaper living cost does allow for more savings, paying off the loan more quickly, starting a life back home.
what other country


 
(Of course rich kids where mommy and daddy pay for everything may be a different factor where they don't need money and are driving down the wages for everyone.  They should get the crap kicked out of them.  Go backpack somewhere else.)
its a free world and all that, if you dont like it go move to one of those cheaper living cost countries you were talking about


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5410

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2020, 02:21:41 am »
still better than they'd get stateside

IF they are below average among college grads back home.

Thatís a lot of people.

Not everyone can be average or above average.

Some get bad grades, donít prepare well, donít network, donít do an internship, choose a major with less utility, and donít interview well.

For them, 2.1 is a lot of money.


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1139

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2020, 09:58:06 am »
Some get bad grades, donít prepare well, donít network, donít do an internship, choose a major with less utility, and donít interview well.

For them, 2.1 is a lot of money.
Some get good grades, prepare well, network, do an internship, and choose a good major, and interview well.
For them, 2.1 is a lot of money.

Stop blaming individuals for the current value of a degree. Stop blaming individuals for the current state of the economy. Stop blaming individuals for the evils of late-stage capitalism.




Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2020, 10:09:56 am »
Now, that said, there aren't that many 22 year olds who love BTS.  ANy young person who thinks 2.1 is a good wage is dumb.  And the US economy was surging before Covid and will again next year. 

Again, dude. NOT EVERY NET IS AMERICAN.

Particularly with the Rand getting progressively shittier, 2.1mil is nowhere near minimum wage in South Africa.

Many young people tend to prioritize experience, adventure and independence over finance because.... they're young.
22-year olds make decisions you or I might find reckless and always will because... they're still young.
We were all young once, give the kids a break and stop sounding like an old man.

They're not "driving down wages", they're simply filling the demand. Think about it, if Korea was serious about English education, they'd be pissed off by the overuse of bomb games a long time ago. They'd identify a HS could not knowing his ABCs as a serious problem in the education system. They'd change the education system, update the curriculum to the times and hire butch 40yr old women in ugly shoes, with a teaching license and 15yrs experience and pay them $5000 a month to follow curriculums and take on more work and responsibility.

It's cheaper to pay for a person who'll just keep up a pretense than one who'll really get the job done.




Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2020, 10:28:39 am »
You are onto something. But it isn't a uniquely Korea problem. We have to ask ourselves why so many young people are having a tough time economically that they feel the need to come across the world to work for 15 bucks an hour. It's so easy to just say that Koreans don't want quality educators, but look at the crap show that is known as the U.S education system....

Look, I don't know or care what's happening in America's education system and I'm not talking about Capitalism or anything.

All I know is that, like many NETs coming here, I made the stupid decision of completing a B.A degree. I'm not blaming anyone else for that other than my own lack of foresight. A B.A undergrad has no marketable skills. It's your engineers and tradesman who are wanted.

I'm making sure my 16yr old sister isn't going make the same mistake and it doesn't look like she isn't, she's acing maths and considering career paths that are in-demand around the world.

Either way, even if we've made mistakes, I think I'd be happier accepting that I made poor career choices, learning from my mistakes, warning others about making them and making the best of the situation than being pissed off all the time by blaming things I have no control over.


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4669

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2020, 01:32:12 pm »
A focused BA is fine, but a degree-for-the-sake-of-a-degree is not something working class people should do.

One of my daughters did a BA as a first degree towards a Master of Information - she has always wanted to be a librarian. Itís a field with lots of opportunity.


  • Kayos
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1985

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2020, 01:33:49 pm »
IF they are below average among college grads back home.

Thatís a lot of people.

Not everyone can be average or above average.

Some get bad grades, donít prepare well, donít network, donít do an internship, choose a major with less utility, and donít interview well.

For them, 2.1 is a lot of money.

I finished my computing major in the upper regions of average. However, I picked a niche role in computing that was phased out of the IT industry around the halfway point of my degree.
There are still jobs in that niche role, but require 10 - 12 years experience for an entry level position due to the sheer amount of competition for them these days that already have that level of experience.
I prep well, I don't network these days - but did at uni, my course REQUIRED a completion of an internship - that also gave me glowing recommendations at the end, I'm probably 50/50 on interviewing well.

I was fine with 2.1 when I came to Korea around 4 years ago. However, being from NZ, 2.1 - 3.0 + free housing is pretty decent. 3.0 without housing is basically what a new teacher in NZ gets, but they have to deal with parents and have loads of paperwork - and there is a teacher shortage there atm, cause of the high stress and lower wages.
There was even a news article in the NZ paper around 3 - 4 months ago, of a retired police chief turned teacher, who claimed teaching in NZ was more stressful than being a cop. :o


  • 745sticky
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1139

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: 'Modern-day slavery' in Korea
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2020, 01:36:16 pm »
There was even a news article in the NZ paper around 3 - 4 months ago, of a retired police chief turned teacher, who claimed teaching in NZ was more stressful than being a cop. :o

Not to diminish the bravery of our boys in blue (or whatever color they wear down there) but being a cop in sheep territory doesn't sound like the most stressful job to begin with