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  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Should a person's appearance affect their job?
« on: September 29, 2020, 07:13:08 am »
Should a person's appearance have an affect on their job status? Where is the line that can't be crossed? Who decides where that line is? This guy could very well be the best teacher any of us have ever seen.

Personally, I think there's a line. It's flexible, but it's there.

This guy mentions he had an existential crisis (whatever that means) which led to the tattoos. I dunno, I think it's extreme and extremes of any sort are abnormal to me. I don't care whether it's faith or exercising.

http://ca.yahoo.com/news/frenchman-says-tattoos-cost-him-095941619.html

PALAISEAU, France (Reuters) - A schoolteacher whose body, face and tongue are covered in tattoos and who has had the whites of his eyes surgically turned black said he was prevented from teaching at a French kindergarten after a parent complained he scared their child.

But the teacher, Sylvain Helaine, 35, still teaches children from the age of six up, and said that, after an initial shock when they see him for the first time, his pupils see past his appearance.

"All of my students and their parents were always cool with me because basically they knew me," said Helaine, who estimated he has spent around 460 hours under the tattooists' needle.

"It's only when people see me from far away that they can assume the worst."

He said last year he was teaching kindergarten at the Docteur Morere Elementary School in Palaiseau, a suburb of Paris, when the parents of a three-year-old child complained to educational authorities. They said their son, who was not taught by Helaine, had nightmares after seeing him.

A couple of months later the school authorities informed him he would no longer teach kindergarten children, he said. "I think the decision they took was quite sad," said Helaine.

A spokesman for the local education authority said an agreement was reached with Helaine to move him away from teaching kindergarten. Pupils under six "could be frightened by his appearance", the spokesman said.

Despite the setbacks, Helaine said he would stick with his chosen career. "I'm a primary school teacher ... I love my job."

He said he started getting tattoos at the age of 27 when, while teaching at a private school in London, he had an "existential crisis". Since then, he said, "Getting tattoos is my passion."

He said he hoped to show his pupils that they should accept people who are different from the norm. "Maybe when they are adults they will be less racist and less homophobic and more open-minded," he said.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 12:18:30 pm by VanIslander »


  • SPQR
  • Super Waygook

    • 498

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 07:22:33 am »
I own a study room in Korea.  He would probably be the last person
I would hire in the world. So, his chances of employment with me?

1:7,500,000,000

No kob for him! They're takin' our kobs! Take this kob and shove it!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 07:24:21 am by SPQR »


  • tylerthegloob
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1734

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 07:26:20 am »
I think it's extreme and extremes of any sort are abnormal to me.
hmmm


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6269

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 07:35:42 am »
fuc*ing with his pupils fucked with his pupils.

But really, there's comes a pointwhere you have to tell the guy, "WTF did you expect?" There are some things you can't claim ignorance on.

If he had a little tattoo of a saxophone on his wrist and his boss said it was some sort of travesty and the kids wouldn't get it............ well, I'm sure a lot of the kids have seen tattoos, their parents have tattoos, at least some of them, that's guaranteed.

But at some point you have to sit Sylvain down and ask him "What the hell did you expect? You consciously chose to mimic a snake demon."

This wasn't a burn victim with scars, which is horrible to imagine but it happens. This wasn't an acid attack. He said to himself "I want to look as unconventional as possible." A punk with a mohawk, 12 piercings in their face and all the leather gear still only manages a 7 on the shock scale these days, Sylvain decided to rewrite to spectrum.

Do I think he's a bad person? No, but, bro, what the hell did you expect?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 07:41:22 am by CO2 »
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • gotngoidea
  • Veteran

    • 106

    • August 28, 2012, 09:15:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2020, 07:45:30 am »
A couple of years back I volunteered to to cultural lessons to schools that requested an Australian culture class. I had two (older) Korean women ask me to remove my earrings when I visited their school. I though this was ridiculous because the schools were the ones that wanted an Australian culture class and if I had to change my appearance so the students would be more 'comfortable' then what's the point of having a lesson about culture? I'm pretty confident in my ability to present a lesson and having piercings or tattoos doesn't affect one's ability to teach, it's just an appearance thing that doesn't dictate your skills or abilities.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6269

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2020, 07:53:07 am »
having piercings or tattoos doesn't affect one's ability to teach, it's just an appearance thing that doesn't dictate your skills or abilities.

That's not ENTIRELY true though.

If I had a swastika on my forehead and was trying to teach some kids about the holocaust, that wouldn't really be on, would it?

It shows the teacher's judgment. Can it be superficial? Yes. Can it be necessary? Yes.

Again, this guy HAD TO IMAGINE that this lifestyle change might affect his employment chances. This isn't being gay, or your ethnicity.

This is "How can I look as frightening to children as possible?"

If I wore this to Kindergarten class



then I don't get to say "The kids are scared, really? This is a lifestyle choice."

There's a tuxedo, 2 hours in the makeup chair and 3 hours of British Gentry courses on one end of the spectrum, and there's whatever the hell Sylvain did to himself on the other. Neither are great fits for MOST jobs dealing with the public.

It's like when the cops shoot a guy who's waving a knife around at the mall, people say "They didn't have to shoot him."

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no. What did you expect?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 08:00:00 am by CO2 »
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • 303lmc
  • Veteran

    • 182

    • March 05, 2019, 05:23:12 pm
    • Gwangju
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2020, 07:55:28 am »
maybe I'm getting conservative in my "old age" but this is a little over the top. it's WAY too distracting. I can't see how children would be able to focus on the class and not his appearance. and for young children, it definitely could be scary.
I have to agree with the what did you expect thoughts. there is hardly any skin to be seen. and then he gets his pupils dyed. just, no.
there are definitely places where I wouldn't give his appearance a second thought, but teaching in a school, mmmm...no thanks.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6269

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2020, 07:57:23 am »
there are definitely places where I wouldn't give his appearance a second thought
Mordor?
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • 303lmc
  • Veteran

    • 182

    • March 05, 2019, 05:23:12 pm
    • Gwangju
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2020, 08:21:07 am »
Mordor?
haha, yes that is one.
I could see this guy working in a tattoo shop, a bar, a music venue, just not a school.


  • buckybee
  • Veteran

    • 116

    • August 30, 2015, 02:36:08 pm
    • Daejeon
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2020, 09:02:24 am »
The line was crossed when he tattooed his eyes for me. I respect anybody's want to express themselves but if you want to work as a teacher, at the very least you shouldn't scare your students. I think it may cause trauma to developing minds. I think it's possible that he could have a positive effect on developing minds too like he said but he could also cause unneeded stress as well. I think if he taught older kids, it would be relatively okay though.

As for your appearance affecting your job status, I think as OP said, there is line.  When your thinking about jobs, know your audience. Scary black eyes may not be appropriate for elementary school students and their parents. Maybe one day it will be but you can't go against the norm without the norm fighting back. If your willing to take the fight to change the norm, more power to you. However don't expect for things to go smoothly and positively.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1444

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2020, 09:09:08 am »
"Kob" is an interesting typo. It could be read in so many very interesting ways...
 :huh: :laugh: :lipsrsealed:


Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2020, 09:28:18 am »
The number of people still fighting battles they had with their parents at Age 8 well into their 30s is mind-numbing.


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2020, 09:53:26 am »
Getting a tattoo hurts, I have a few. However, I have heard the eyes are at the low end of the pain spectrum.

I give this dude mad props because he went through some serious pain getting inked like that.

I'm a little surprised they let him teach Kindergarten to begin with. I'm even more surprised that he's still a primary teacher but kids that age may be old enough to dig it in a strange way.


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2020, 09:54:25 am »
The number of people still fighting battles they had with their parents at Age 8 well into their 30s is mind-numbing.

Open your mind brother, some battles never end, even with therapy. If you can't understand this, I envy your life.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5267

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 11:40:27 am »
I'm a little surprised they let him teach Kindergarten to begin with.

He got the job first then got the tattoos. In France and many places elsewhere in the world it's very hard to fire workers.  In the USA, very easy. Which is a big reason they are the world's most successful economy in my opinion. Imagine wanting to replace a bad worker with someone better but not be able to. In economies like this it's harder to be hired because employers are wary. They'll be forced to live with the bad decision. In America however if you screw up or slack  you can be let go. Easier to get a job and easier to lose the job overall. (But if you do good work, that is, provide value, meaning you're earning the paycheck, you have nothing to worry about. You're paid according to what you're worth in the free market.)


Re: Should a person's appearance affect their kob?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 12:02:43 pm »
The number of people still fighting battles they had with their parents at Age 8 well into their 30s is mind-numbing.

Hear! hear!

All I see and hear is a teenager still stuck in their rebellious phase.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4344

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their job?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2020, 03:53:39 pm »
Hear! hear!

All I see and hear is a teenager still stuck in their rebellious phase.
yes, exactly. you are free to choose to do what you want with your body, but others are also free to judge you on those choices


Re: Should a person's appearance affect their job?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2020, 06:06:47 pm »
Bring back the kob!
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 6269

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their job?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2020, 06:29:21 pm »
yes, exactly. you are free to choose to do what you want with your body, but others are also free to judge you on those choices

"You shouldn't judge people."

- person who does not reflect or ponder in any meaningful sense
The first thing to say is that this is definitely not pyramid selling, OK?


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2166

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Should a person's appearance affect their job?
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2020, 02:16:39 pm »
Within reason.  But there is such a thing as too much.  Looking like a scary demon is hardly reassuring to kids.  If you want to do that and work in an anti social job, it's your business.  But, no way a public job has to accept that especially if it turns away customers or affects kids.  Of course minor things like a couple of tattoos, being a bit overweight, maybe even some dyed hair should be okay in my book. 

Of course many Asian countries get picky about even minor things, though Korea is changing.  Ten years ago, you had to cover the tattoos and hide piercings here.  I had a friend who was a bit overweight, had a man bun, and had a longish beard (a bit different from my style and views).  Anyways, he applied for jobs in China.  Beijing and Shanghai shut him out due to his job photo.  He wouldn't go for a clean cut look.  Stayed true to himself.  But he did end up in the countryside in China.  Less picky there.  He didn't mind it though.  Started off being quite slack in the beginning before loading him up with classes a year or two in.  (Was public schools.)