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  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1144

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Defund the police
« on: September 23, 2020, 10:15:17 am »
I am no fan of the police in general, especially American cops with their shoot first ask questions later attitude. The militarization of police forces is disconcerting. I also think that cops should come from communication backgrounds heavily influenced with listening skills.

Having said that, the entire defund the police thing is absurd. We need police.

Having said that, people who espouse defundiing the police and then call the police the moment they are scared are just a tad hypocritical.

What do you think? Defund the police, retrain for more empathy/sympathy, or arm 'em up?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8756911/Defund-police-activist-Alyssa-Milano-sparks-massive-police-presence-calling-911.html?ito=social-facebook


Re: Defund the police
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2020, 10:24:30 am »
Defund doesn't mean elimante. It means take some of their budget and use it to create alternatives to the majority of the calls that the police currently deal with, such as mental health and drug issues.

Alternatively more training would be a good start too.




  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2166

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2020, 11:29:07 am »
Militarization of police is probably due to folks killing them and rioting and burning shit down.  Sadly, most people will just retuire as most big city liberal mayors are cowards and will throw most of their police forces under the bus. 


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1738

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2020, 11:34:33 am »
Quote
Defund doesn't mean elimante. It means take some of their budget and use it to create alternatives to the majority of the calls that the police currently deal with, such as mental health and drug issues.

Yes, the problem is what social worker/mental health nurse is going to want to respond to a call that some nutter is wandering around the neighbourhood threatening people? As soon as there's a possibility of violence, they'll call the police anyway. Just like they do in hospitals when it gets a bit hairy.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5267

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2020, 11:42:18 am »
In poor neighborhoods, where police presence goes down, crimes go up.

Police are afraid to shoot a black man - doing so could ruin their life.

It’s not a statistically high occurrence considering America’s big population and somewhat high crime rate for a wealthy country.

The problem is people who shouldn’t be having kids are given welfare money when they do, which leads to them making more children they can’t take care of.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5267

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2020, 11:43:24 am »
Good intentions often have unintended consequences.


Re: Defund the police
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2020, 11:50:25 am »
Yes, the problem is what social worker/mental health nurse is going to want to respond to a call that some nutter is wandering around the neighbourhood threatening people? As soon as there's a possibility of violence, they'll call the police anyway. Just like they do in hospitals when it gets a bit hairy.

I was a case manager/resident advocate in a mens homeless shelter. I personally only had to call the police once out of two years working there. These guys had a wide variety of issues; mental health, drug addiction, post prison supervision, serious health issues. So I don't think finding applicants will be a problem.


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1738

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2020, 11:57:46 am »
Quote
I was a case manager/resident advocate in a mens homeless shelter. I personally only had to call the police once out of two years working there. These guys had a wide variety of issues; mental health, drug addiction, post prison supervision, serious health issues. So I don't think finding applicants will be a problem.

Yes but I thought we were talking about people the public do call the police about now, being the responsibility of someone else, not the ones they don't.


Re: Defund the police
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2020, 12:11:26 pm »
Yes but I thought we were talking about people the public do call the police about now, being the responsibility of someone else, not the ones they don't.

I can assure you some of these guys had the cops called on them.

But the majority of police calls are non-violent.

https://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/police_dispatch_stats/

Quote
All Police Dispatches By Call Type, July 2018 to June 2020
Below is an aggregate list of police dispatch calls by call type over the past two years, sorted from high to low by number of calls responded to by police.

Alarm: 12,464
Other Miscellaneous: 11,885
MVA - No Injury: 9,416
Breach / Disorderly Conduct: 7,654
Domestic Dispute: 7,339
Theft: 6,040
Trespass / Unwanted Person: 5,764
Parking Violations: 5,478
Noise Complaint: 5,397
Public Hazard: 4,612
Door Check / Welfare Check: 4,282
Evading - No Injury: 3,900
Assault/Fight: 3,839
Person Down BLS: 3,322
Psych/Ab Behav/Suicidal BLS: 3,167
Criminal Mischief / Vandalism: 3,076
Motor Vehicle Stop: 2,785
Harassment: 2,575
911 Hangup Call: 2,554
Tenant / Neighbor Issues: 2,491
Supplemental Investigation: 2,468
Suspicious Person: 2,443
Fraud / Forgery / False Rpt: 2,381
Warrant / Wanted Person: 2,355
MVA - Minor Injury (TTAB): 1,996
Emotionally Disturbed: 1,905
Assist Other Agency - Police: 1,785
Threatening/Stalking: 1,645
Loitering: 1,514
Prop Retrieval / Prev Breach: 1,489
Lost or Found Property: 1,411
Drug / Narcotics Complaint: 1,342
Suspicious Auto: 1,323
Burglary Occurred: 1,315
Gunfire / Shots Fired: 1,295
Missing Person > 13 YO: 1,288
Animal Complaint: 1,260
Recovered Auto: 1,121
Intoxicated Person (PD): 936
Sick Person (Medical Assist): 921
Guarding Prisoner: 904
Overdose: 900
Stolen Auto: 748
Box Alarm: 738
Prisoner Conveyance Requested: 716
Weapons Complaint: 712
Custodial Interference: 679
Robbery: 628
Located Person: 620
Risk of Injury Complaint: 618
MVA - Majory Injury (TTAA): 610
Wires Down: 557
MVA - Minor Injury: 531
Unknown Nature: 516
Assault ALS: 488
Veh Taken w/o Permission: 476
Deceased Person: 395
Sex Offenses: 394
Fireworks: 370
Tampering w/ Motor Vehicle: 358
Illegal Dumping: 329
Auto Fire: 248
Accident Other than MV: 239
Evading - Minor Injury (TTAB): 222
Sexual Assault / Rape: 217
Psych/Ab Behav/Suicidal: 210
Burglary in Progress: 202
Drunk Driver: 190
Person Shot: 183
Missing Child less than 13 YOA: 183
MVA - Major Injury: 157
Notifications: 156
MVA Start Code: 143
Trash Fire: 125
Animal Bite / Sting ALS: 107
Rollover Extrication Required: 106
Prostitution Complaint: 104
Psych/Ab Behav/Suicidal ALS: 102
Stabbing / Knife Injury-Major: 95
Unattended Luggage: 93
Activated Fire Alarm: 83
Evading - Minor Injury: 60
Stabbing / Knife Injury-Minor: 54
Absentee Ballot: 52
Traffic Post / Corner Duty: 49
Evading - Major Injury (TTAA): 49
Stolen Plate: 45
Street Cleaning Detail: 34
In Pursuit: 30
Gambling: 30
MVA Major Injury: 28
Overdose/Poisoning/Ingest ALS: 27
Recovered Plate: 23
Hazardous Materials Incident: 22
Liquor Violation: 19
Abduction: 17
Evading - Major Injury: 15
Elevator Extrication: 15
Suspicious Package: 13
Murder: 10
Bomb Threat: 10
Mutual Aid-Other Jurisdiction: 9
Code 1 Suspicious Package: 8
Welfare Check BLS: 7
Train Derailment/Incident: 6
Detox-Ambulance Needed: 6
Animal Bite/Sting BLS: 6
Reckless Endangerment: 4
Partial Collapse: 4
Cardiac/Resp Arrest/Death: 4
Breathing Problem ALS: 4
Unconscious ALS: 3
Police Escort: 3
Odor or Natural Gas: 3
Civil Unrest Law: 3
Burglar on Premise: 3
Sick Person ALS: 2
Officer Needed Assistance Sig4: 2
Citizen Assist (Yale): 2
Animal Bite Start Code: 2
Traumatic Injuries ALS: 1
Structural Collapse: 1
High Angle Rescue: 1
Fall ALS: 1
Escaped Prisoner: 1
Electrocution BLS: 1
Code 2 Suspicious Behavior: 1
Chest Pain ALS: 1
Brush Fire: 1
AMR Only: 1
Allergic Reaction ALS: 1


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1738

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2020, 12:19:29 pm »
Not really surprising, only the very stupidest people would start acting up physically when confronted by a US cop these days.  I wonder how many of those calls would have ended in violence if an unarmed social worker had responded to the call.


Re: Defund the police
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2020, 12:23:15 pm »
Not really surprising, only the very stupidest people would start acting up physically when confronted by a US cop these days.  I wonder how many of those calls would have ended in violence if an unarmed social worker had responded to the call.

I wonder how many people having a mental health episode wouldn't have been shot if a mental health worker arrived.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/09/18/police-shooting-mental-health-solutions-training-defund/5763145002/

Quote
Nearly 15% of men and 30% of women booked into jails have a serious mental health condition, the National Alliance on Mental Illness estimates.

And more than 1 in 5 people shot and killed by police have a mental illness, according to a Washington Post database of fatal shootings by on-duty police officers.

Police have fatally shot more than 1,200 people with mental illnesses – the majority of whom were white – since 2015, according to the database. Of the nearly 700 people shot and killed by police so far this year, more than 100 had a mental illness.

"The police become the responders of last resort, and the jails become the mental hospitals of last resort," said Peter Scharf, a criminologist at the Louisiana State University School of Public Health and Justice. "Increasingly, the police and correctional system become the last option."
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 12:24:58 pm by thunderlips »


Re: Defund the police
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2020, 12:39:27 pm »
I wonder how many people having a mental health episode wouldn't have been shot if a mental health worker arrived.

I would guess a lot. But in that case there'd be far fewer "mental health worker" alive to respond to calls. Because they'd be dead. From the stabbing.
Does your wife submit to you?


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1738

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2020, 12:42:46 pm »
Quote
I wonder how many people having a mental health episode wouldn't have been shot if a mental health worker arrived.

Yes as Shanebarry says, how many mental health workers would have been shot/stabbed/beaten up if they'd arrived instead of the police, Also the diagnosis of mental health in criminals is spectacularly high these days. Up to 90% in some studies.


  • L I
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5267

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2020, 12:43:07 pm »
What is a mental illness? Psychopathy?  Sociopathy? Anti-social personally disorder (meaning low empathy for others)?

Those are most likely included/.


  • tylerthegloob
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1734

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2020, 12:50:09 pm »
how many mental health workers would have been shot/stabbed/beaten up if they'd arrived instead of the police
idk dude how many?


Re: Defund the police
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2020, 12:51:26 pm »
idk dude how many?

At least 1 more than the number of people killed by police


  • tylerthegloob
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1734

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2020, 01:02:37 pm »
At least 1 more than the number of people killed by police
at least 1201 mental health workers would have been stabbed/shot/beaten up if they had arrived to deal with someone having a mental health episode instead of the police?


  • 745sticky
  • Expert Waygook

    • 880

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2020, 01:08:30 pm »
really glad to see this thread has revived


  • tylerthegloob
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1734

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: Defund the police
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2020, 01:10:50 pm »
really glad to see this thread has revived
revived? it just got started


Re: Defund the police
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2020, 01:12:14 pm »
at least 1201 mental health workers would have been stabbed/shot/beaten up if they had arrived to deal with someone having a mental health episode instead of the police?

It would be lower. Much lower.

I tried to jump in with the eggieguffer and Shane reply so we could just get that part over with.