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  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1990

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Since the mods or whomever decided to delete the replies to a few illegal job postings I thought I would share this info. As people can be arrested, fined and deported for teaching illegally I think it outweighs whatever money/clicks you may receive by posting the illegal ads.

https://koreatesol.org/content/e-2-visas-eligibility-enforcement

Quote
The E-2 visa, as defined by the Korean Immigration Service, is specifically for "conversational English" (회화).

Quote
Teaching courses other than "conversation" requires a visa other than E-2: teaching courses at kindergarten through high school requires an E-7 visa if you are teaching anything other than conversation.




http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170622000872
Quote
Foreigners teaching subjects other than English on E-2 visas may face eviction from South Korea, as the immigration office is cracking down on visa violations in English-only alternative schools.


« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 07:47:20 am by thunderlips »


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1341

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2020, 09:51:55 am »
Whoever*   :P

Also, while I knew about the fines and the deportation, I didn't realise that immi could actually arrest somebody for teaching anything other than Enlish conversation.  :huh:


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1894

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2020, 10:37:32 am »
Whoever*   :P

Also, while I knew about the fines and the deportation, I didn't realise that immi could actually arrest somebody for teaching anything other than Enlish conversation.  :huh:
Enlish ---> English  :wink:

The article is wrong, E-2 are not specifically for "conversational English". It's for conversational instruction in any foreign language. However, the E-2 visa is tied to your employee, and the language of instruction is probably also noted by kimmi.

I've met Japanese, and Chinese, language teachers on an E-2. However, something like 80%+ of E-2 visa holders are English conversation instructors.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1341

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do


Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2020, 11:43:16 am »
Enlish ---> English  :wink:

The article is wrong, E-2 are not specifically for "conversational English". It's for conversational instruction in any foreign language. However, the E-2 visa is tied to your employee, and the language of instruction is probably also noted by kimmi.

I've met Japanese, and Chinese, language teachers on an E-2. However, something like 80%+ of E-2 visa holders are English conversation instructors.

employee --> employer   ;)


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1990

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2020, 11:47:52 am »


Yeah good point about other language teachers being on E2. I think the article is just poorly worded.


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1894

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2020, 11:56:45 am »


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1341

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2020, 12:09:30 pm »
I notice that lifeisgloob6447 refused to write more than two words in their post. That's unfair. How are we gonna make fun of their writing that way?


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4552

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2020, 02:40:37 pm »
Whoever*   :P

Also, while I knew about the fines and the deportation, I didn't realise that immi could actually arrest somebody for teaching anything other than Enlish conversation.  :huh:

Arrest is usually what happens when you face a fine or deportation.

Traffic tickets are the exception, not the rule!


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2019

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2020, 11:37:29 pm »
I have been teaching in hagwons nonstop since 2002 some classes TOEIC (reading & listening, ... stfu... they're in no way "conversational"), essay writing (national middle school silver award winners twice) and speech contest winners (they won so were among few who went to NY, London and Vancouver as a reward).

This is all absurd. Unless by "conversational English" they mean "communicating in the natural language".

((I have helped send students to Ivy league schools (UPenn), Stanford and the University of Kentucky (he went as a horse breeding major and transferred to photography a year after i gave him my Canon - i had been a newspaper journalist for years before teaching). I also sent a guy to a top Korean law school (can't recall which, was a SKY school; i taught him two hours Saturday morning for five friggin' years one on one). I love teaching because it can make a difference in someone's life.))

But then again, this may be public school union talk... after all, they define foreign language English teachers as "ASSISTANT instructors" by contract, not the "co-teacher" love preached by foreigners.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 11:57:07 pm by VanIslander »


Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2020, 08:21:14 am »
It was fare in square. ;) (better now?)


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 2027

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2020, 08:22:36 am »
Since the mods or whomever decided to delete the replies to a few illegal job postings I thought I would share this info. As people can be arrested, fined and deported for teaching illegally I think it outweighs whatever money/clicks you may receive by posting the illegal ads.

https://koreatesol.org/content/e-2-visas-eligibility-enforcement




http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170622000872



Those BC teachers came over on the wrong visa.  They should have checked it and the employers should have too.  E2 is a language visa.  So, a German could come over and teach German.  A French, Belgian, or Canadian national could come over on an E2 and teach French.  But those jobs are less in demand and not common.  It is hard to say for sure how far native is defined.  (I assume French north Africans not allowed.)  For English it is native teachers from developed countries since the Koreans originally wanted to know about the culture and to trade with them.  Late 80's to early 90's E2 visa opened to 7 countries for English which were all legally considered developed countries then.  (SA was still apartheid and considered a developed country at the time - well the white parts were.  But it is good for South Africans that it was as they can now come in and teach.  Had it happened years later, it probably would have been denied for them as it was no longer considered a developed country - according to international indicators.  Had the E2 system opened up 10 years later, it prob would have only been 6 countries for teaching.) 


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1990

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2020, 08:33:42 am »
Those BC teachers came over on the wrong visa.  They should have checked it and the employers should have too.  E2 is a language visa.  So, a German could come over and teach German.  A French, Belgian, or Canadian national could come over on an E2 and teach French.  But those jobs are less in demand and not common.  It is hard to say for sure how far native is defined.  (I assume French north Africans not allowed.)  For English it is native teachers from developed countries since the Koreans originally wanted to know about the culture and to trade with them.  Late 80's to early 90's E2 visa opened to 7 countries for English which were all legally considered developed countries then.  (SA was still apartheid and considered a developed country at the time - well the white parts were.  But it is good for South Africans that it was as they can now come in and teach.  Had it happened years later, it probably would have been denied for them as it was no longer considered a developed country - according to international indicators.  Had the E2 system opened up 10 years later, it prob would have only been 6 countries for teaching.) 

Thank you for that enthralling history lesson.

But back to my point E2 visas should not be teaching science, art, math etc.


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1313

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2020, 08:54:26 am »
Thank you for that enthralling history lesson.

But back to my point E2 visas should not be teaching science, art, math etc.

Immigration doesn't consider the E2 teachers that are doing their English lessons as a "science" or "art" class as science or art teachers.  There is a whole industry to fact check check this against.  Loads of kindergartens across the country do this and no one has an issue with it.  Well, except on here, but that hardly affects reality. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 08:57:11 am by OnNut81 »


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2019

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2020, 09:42:11 am »
But back to my point E2 visas should not be teaching science, art, math etc.
I am proud of the fact that i taught a student 5 days a week from 2009-2015 on Jeju Island (on an E-2 visa) math, science (American textbooks and National Geographic learning material), history and debating. He went on to an Ivy league school and has emailed me - out of the blue years later - thanks, as he enters his last year of an engineering program, already promised a job with a Korean construction company.

I teach because of this ****. Teachers should want to make a difference and not waste a single second of class time!

When i was young i was told i should be a teacher but was turned off by two things: the petty cliques of high school and the unionization of teachers (more specifically, the "it's a safe, paying, cozy job" that lazy students around me salivated at - ugh... i'd rather cut off my pinky and climb Everest, which, it turns out, real teaching is more like).


Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2020, 10:29:31 am »
Immigration doesn't consider the E2 teachers that are doing their English lessons as a "science" or "art" class as science or art teachers.  There is a whole industry to fact check check this against.  Loads of kindergartens across the country do this and no one has an issue with it.  Well, except on here, but that hardly affects reality. 

There you have it.

 Immigration law authority, Harvard law graduate, supreme court justice, onnut has given a definitive ruling, over turning the deportations that happened to E2 visa holders that were teaching subjects other than Conversation.

Your deportation was illegal and the ruling has been reversed by supreme court justice Onnut.

T.C.

P.S. Why do we bother, the law clearly states an E2 회화 visa is just that a visa for a conversational teacher. It even says exactly that on your alien card. If you choose to do jobs outside of conversational teaching the law clearly states you can and will be deported if caught. There are dozens of documented cases of just such happening, whether or not immigration bothers to leave their office investigate and deport you is up to them.


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1990

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2020, 10:30:54 am »
I am proud of the fact that i taught a student 5 days a week from 2009-2015 on Jeju Island (on an E-2 visa) math, science (American textbooks and National Geographic learning material), history and debating. He went on to an Ivy league school and has emailed me - out of the blue years later - thanks, as he enters his last year of an engineering program, already promised a job with a Korean construction company.

I teach because of this ****. Teachers should want to make a difference and not waste a single second of class time!

When i was young i was told i should be a teacher but was turned off by two things: the petty cliques of high school and the unionization of teachers (more specifically, the "it's a safe, paying, cozy job" that lazy students around me salivated at - ugh... i'd rather cut off my pinky and climb Everest, which, it turns out, real teaching is more like).

Maybe take your ego out of the discussion for a moment. No one is arguing about what should motivate teachers. This discussion is about the legalities of teaching other subjects on an e2 visa. And if the job adverts should reflect those policies.



Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2020, 10:50:44 am »
Bulls eye Thunderlips.


  • CO4
  • Waygookin

    • 22

    • April 22, 2020, 07:49:38 pm
    • All seeing eye
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2020, 12:26:39 pm »
I also sent a guy to a top Korean law school

Nothing to do with the hundreds and hundreds of self studying hours he must have done about, hmm I don't know, law.  But yeah, two hours once a week gave him a real leg up on the competition.

 The people on this site, holy shit.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4213

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Teaching anything other than conversational english on an e2 is illegal
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2020, 01:23:46 pm »
Immigration doesn't consider the E2 teachers that are doing their English lessons as a "science" or "art" class as science or art teachers. There is a whole industry to fact check check this against.  Loads of kindergartens across the country do this and no one has an issue with it.  Well, except on here, but that hardly affects reality. 

You have zero proof of this.

Just because immigration decides to turn a blind eye to it now, does not mean they consider "teaching science in English" as EFL. The very same immigration turned a blind eye to the BC teachers for years...till they decided not to.

What you're pedaling is dangerous and false.