Read 2011 times

  • SPQR
  • Super Waygook

    • 479

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada

So far these "people" have caused 676 people to become sick. They and this
psychopath nut bar, Rev. Jun Kwang-hoon, should foot the entire bill for
themselves, people they have infected and for the livelihoods they have
interrupted.

Average cost of Covid-19 treatment:  4,780,000KRW
Multiplied by 676: 3,231,280,000KRW
Cost to others in lost wages etc.: ?

But this should be all added up and these anti-social zealots
should pay for ALL of it.  If need be, sell the church land, garnish wages,
confiscate assets.


https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2020/08/119_294724.html
https://pulsenews.co.kr/view.php?year=2020&no=471089


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4269

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2020, 02:50:09 pm »
they still haven't handed over the list of their thousands of church members. Govt is estimating they are missing at least 1-2K people from what i read last. it's worse than the whole sincheonji thing - and it's happening in the middle of seoul!


Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2020, 02:52:52 pm »
Fine. But the same thing should apply to some NET who decides to hit up the club. Or breaking quarantine to hit up GS25 for a pack of smokes. Or the crowd of NETs outside some bar in Itaewon/HBC, maskless and getting drunk at 2AM.

I for one, think that's ridiculous. Granted, there's a world of difference between a mass protest and someone grabbing a pack of smokes, but if we're going to go down that road, then it's going to end up in some pretty ugly places and you might not like it when you get caught up in the mix. I'm not going to blame anyone in the scenario above for mass death and go after them to the point of lifetime financial ruin. You have to balance the need to enforce safety with the fact that we're all people and to ask them to be biohazard robots for 7 straight months is unreasonable. Mistakes will happen. People need to socialize a little. Commerce needs to continue. Now, do I think they should face some criminal or moderate civil penalties? That would certainly be reasonable. But your proposal is clearly motivated by malice, not justice.

You can't live a life of shitting yourself in fear over everything, nor a life of using any excuse to go after whatever ideological group you have an axe to grind. If this were about criminal rehabilitation, I think significant community service would be a much better application of criminal justice.

Is this really about effective safety and justice? Or is this about your personal animus to their ideology?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 02:55:36 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • hippo
  • Veteran

    • 216

    • July 16, 2011, 11:28:36 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2020, 03:24:50 pm »
Lots of assumptions baked into these answers.  What is your goal?  Do you want justice for people who are responsible for the spread? Or do you want to mostly slow the spread of the disease?  These are not necessarily the same thing and would likely lead to different reactions.

Perhaps we should pursue legal actions that address injustices while simultaneously seeking to avoid letting the virus get out of control.  The people at the top were certainly malicious and I was glad the leader was punished severely.  Is is worth perhaps tolerating certain injustices if we can reasonably predict that they will prevent more people from getting sick.

I donít know where the line is.  Just throwing that out there.  I do believe that the problem with these spreaders is they made others sick.  Donít we want to find a response with incentives and disincentives aimed at preventing people from getting sick (including more spreading events lime this)?


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4269

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2020, 04:25:19 pm »
Fine. But the same thing should apply to some NET who decides to hit up the club. Or breaking quarantine to hit up GS25 for a pack of smokes. Or the crowd of NETs outside some bar in Itaewon/HBC, maskless and getting drunk at 2AM.

I for one, think that's ridiculous. Granted, there's a world of difference between a mass protest and someone grabbing a pack of smokes, but if we're going to go down that road, then it's going to end up in some pretty ugly places and you might not like it when you get caught up in the mix. I'm not going to blame anyone in the scenario above for mass death and go after them to the point of lifetime financial ruin. You have to balance the need to enforce safety with the fact that we're all people and to ask them to be biohazard robots for 7 straight months is unreasonable. Mistakes will happen. People need to socialize a little. Commerce needs to continue. Now, do I think they should face some criminal or moderate civil penalties? That would certainly be reasonable. But your proposal is clearly motivated by malice, not justice.

You can't live a life of shitting yourself in fear over everything, nor a life of using any excuse to go after whatever ideological group you have an axe to grind. If this were about criminal rehabilitation, I think significant community service would be a much better application of criminal justice.

Is this really about effective safety and justice? Or is this about your personal animus to their ideology?
it's a shame the govt didn't force churches to shut down sooner, really. it looked like a big outbreak in a church was coming, especially since a lot of smaller clusters from churches were popping up recently. the korean news showed what it's like in these churches too - everyone holding hands, not wearing masks, singing in each other's faces. pretty ridiculous during a pandemic. churches add little to the economy too, so it was probably a political decision not to close them sooner. frustrating.


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2202

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2020, 10:46:39 pm »
Fine. But the same thing should apply to some NET who decides to hit up the club. Or breaking quarantine to hit up GS25 for a pack of smokes. Or the crowd of NETs outside some bar in Itaewon/HBC, maskless and getting drunk at 2AM.

I for one, think that's ridiculous. Granted, there's a world of difference between a mass protest and someone grabbing a pack of smokes,

Maybe just stop there.
Mr. C is not a bad person, in fact is quite a good person here. One of the best people on this forum if you really look at it
-Mr.DeMartino


Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2020, 11:01:30 pm »
Maybe just stop there.
m
This train donít stop


  • Mr C
  • The Legend

    • 2202

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2020, 11:26:03 pm »
m
This train donít stop
What, the rickety wooden rails mine train?  I took that at Six Flags.
Mr. C is not a bad person, in fact is quite a good person here. One of the best people on this forum if you really look at it
-Mr.DeMartino


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1026

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2020, 02:11:24 pm »
I think they should have done nothing at all. Let the virus burn itself out running around the world killing those it would kill. I am in one of the higher risk age brackets too, but I don't care.

The financial cost that this virus has already wrought upon the world is far greater than the cost of what may have happened.

The world has shut down and the overall costs are inestimable.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1339

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2020, 02:48:06 pm »
The problem with that approach is that Corona viruses are notorious for rapid shifts in their genome. There is no guarantee that getting sick from Covid19 will protect you from the next iteration. A possible result of letting the disease run its unfettered course is that it will spread globally, create a myriad of sub-types, and that one of them will have the seriously unfortunate combination of being hyper-transmissible *and* fatal.

   By doing what we can, not only do we "flatten the curve" and give our medical systems the chance to treat those who are badly affected by the virus, but we also prevent it from creating a hundred different varieties of itself. This reduces the risk of it going all Spanish-flu on us (which, by the way, was a corona virus too) and joyously wiping out 5% of the global population (which, if it were to happen today, would translate to approximately three hundred and ninety million deaths).

Also, there is no scientific consensus on whether or not the long-term economic impact of a lock-down is significantly greater than just letting it run rampant (I agree that the short and medium term economic cost of a lockdown is obviously much higher).

    There is, however, a lot of scientific lit stating that the human cost of lockdowns is substantially less.
 A lot of sources have some pretty strong political biases, but here's an academic source that compares "lock-down vs herd immunity strategies" that appears to have steered clear of any overt political influence or ideology.


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 707

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2020, 07:04:18 pm »
Fine the churches...China gets a free pass though, lol.  The hypocrisy!


Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2020, 11:00:19 am »
ďWho's to blame for virus spread: defiant churches or reckless gov't?Ē

https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=294865

There is, perhaps, some 뉘앙스.


  • 745sticky
  • Expert Waygook

    • 735

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2020, 11:32:15 am »
Fine the churches...China gets a free pass though, lol.  The hypocrisy!

As much as I would love to fine China I doubt that China is just gonna pay up


Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2020, 12:06:57 pm »
Fine the churches...China gets a free pass though, lol.  The hypocrisy!

I'm probably the most anti-CCP person here. The CCP is ultimately responsible for this whole mess and must pay, no question about that. Will they? Not in compensation, no.

That doesn't absolve or condone people in other countries for acting like dumb, entitled asshats. Viruses don't care about politics.


Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2020, 01:48:44 pm »
If you're going to fine the churches, then you have to fine the people at that one gay club in Itaewon. I really don't think we want to go down that path. By that logic, everyone who has engaged in any kind of protest/mass gathering/night at the bar in the past 4 months, from which an infection spread, is liable. You'd have to fine and/or lock up so many people, it would be beyond the capacity of South Korea's or any other country's criminal justice system to process.

Aside from some stunt like someone with Corona going to places and deliberately hacking all over stuff, I really don't think you can hold people liable for things considering the haphazard nature of enforcement.

Now there are some people who are consistent on this and would support such a system with strict compliance and liability. For most people however, they just want to use such a system to target people they don't like/political opponents.


  • SPQR
  • Super Waygook

    • 479

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2020, 02:27:07 pm »
I don't think the CCP is to blame at all.  The fault lies in that
it is a top-down hierarchical structure.  This is just a different
system.  Decisions are vetted at the top and then delegated
regionally.  This takes more time.

Compare that to the random, unorganized, ineffectual US
system.

Which is better?  Obviously the Chinese system is MUCH
better at containing the virus.  The flip side is that temporally
sensitive problems are not solved in a timely manner.


  • 745sticky
  • Expert Waygook

    • 735

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2020, 02:32:38 pm »
  Decisions are vetted at the top and then delegated
regionally. 
...and the decisions vetted at the top were shit decisions


  • SPQR
  • Super Waygook

    • 479

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2020, 02:53:45 pm »
...and the decisions vetted at the top were shit decisions

Maybe, but the Chinese government had nothing to gain by releasing
a virus.  In fact, just the opposite.  The CCP wants rich, happy consumers
for their products.  This is obvious.


Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2020, 03:13:59 pm »
I don't think the CCP is to blame at all.  The fault lies in that
it is a top-down hierarchical structure.

Probably the most desperate contrarian attempt I've read on Waygook.

Which is better?  Obviously the Chinese system is MUCH
better at containing the virus. 

Proven by the fact that it's spread to every corner of the Earth.

The free world has these things called free speech and transparency. Should the virus have originated in the US, we'd have known about at from day 1, not nearly 2 months after the first case, and the countries respective CDC would alert all countries to take precautionary measures. No disrespect, but you're talking out your ass.


  • 745sticky
  • Expert Waygook

    • 735

    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
    • Korea
Re: Sarang Jeil Church should pay 100% for the damage they've done!
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2020, 03:18:34 pm »
Maybe, but the Chinese government had nothing to gain by releasing
a virus.  In fact, just the opposite.  The CCP wants rich, happy consumers
for their products.  This is obvious.

They had plenty to gain from pretending that everything was alright and suppressing early warnings, etc.