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WTF is wrong with American police?
« on: May 28, 2020, 08:23:54 am »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/us/george-floyd-minneapolis-death.html

Seriously, those cats are messed up.

And what about this incident, from a few years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner


  • 745sticky
  • Super Waygook

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    • March 26, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2020, 08:45:46 am »
In both cases the policeman was using an illegal hold. So either they just don't give a shit or whoever trained them doesn't give a shit.

Unfortunately, police training is different on a state-by-state basis. Although the courses are generally similar, some states have a statewide academy that all police need to attend, so its more standardized, while some states let cities train their own police forces. The latter option usually results in shit like this since cities/towns that are underfunded end up with badly trained police.

Although you would think that not crushing somebody's neck would be common sense. I think there's enough clear evidence in the Floyd case for at least one of those officers to catch a murder charge.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 08:48:03 am by 745sticky »


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2020, 08:48:50 am »
The bigger issue is the laws that allow this to happen without much prosecution. Although prosecution does happen sometimes. Often it is just a reprimand or promotion, sometimes a firing.


  • fka
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2020, 09:00:24 am »
WTF is wrong with American police?

Lots of things, really. An over-reliance on physical force and weaponry, for one. Lots of police forces throughout the world train their officers in non-violent de-escalation techniques, whereas in the US there's a tendency to expect the worst and prepare for the most violent outcome, which leads to an "I'll get you before you get me" approach. Couple that with a sense of legal impunity and hero complexes, both of which where strengthened by post-9/11 public adoration, and you've got a perfect recipe for excessive force. My friends and I used to get harassed by the police for skateboarding in the 90s and, looking back, it was insane how petty and vindictive some of the cops were. (I should mention that there were a couple of nice ones, including at least one who campaigned for a public skatepark and was instrumental in getting it built.) One of my friends was friends was thrown against a wall by an armed cop, just for getting a bit mouthy. That's a 14-year-old boy, being picked up and hit off a wall, while representing no physical threat to a police officer with a gun. Several people I knew had been ticketed fairly extensively and had misdemeanor records by the time they were 16.

My dad was friends with a cop (also a fundamentally good guy) from a neighboring, much larger city, a guy who eventually took over as head of Internal Affairs for his local force. Like something from a David Simon story, he ended up becoming subject to all kinds sabotage, threats and abuse, but managed to get early retirement and move to another state.

Those are just a couple of anecdotes, but they confirm how deep some of these problems run.


  • NorthStar
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2020, 09:02:30 am »
If you commit a crime then chose to run and or resist arrest, you are making a choice to escalate things, not only putting yourself but possibly others in a higher level of danger. 


Here is a question...why do black Americans, making up a minority of the population, constitute an overwhelming majority of the crime? 



« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 09:06:49 am by NorthStar »


  • tylerthegloob
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2020, 09:08:56 am »
Here is a red herring... and here's another!


  • NorthStar
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2020, 09:09:37 am »


Not a red herring Mr. Glob....a legitimate question. 


  • 745sticky
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2020, 09:09:55 am »
If you commit a crime then chose to run and or resist arrest, you are making a choice to escalate things.


Here is a question...why do black Americans, making up a minority of the population, constitute an overwhelming majority of the crime?

Really flagrant display of whataboutism we got here.

Crime rates are besides the point. There's direct evidence in both the cases linked that the officers were using an illegal hold. That's against regulations, plain and simple, and it warrants them losing their badge at the very least. When it results in death, further charges can (and should) be pursued. Its not like the police exclusively brutalize black people either, there was also the shooting of Daniel Shaver, to name one example.


  • hangook77
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2020, 09:11:26 am »
US needs more standardized and best practices training.  More restraining techniques which are non life threatening.  De escalation strategies, etc.  In some rare cases obviously lethal force may still need to be used, but should reduce it greatly.  Maybe the FBI and the federal government can have training centers around the country and state and local governments can send their current police there and make it mandatory that future police trainees once done police academy go through it before getting a job.  Some extra training.  Just my idea.  Also bring in mandatory body cameras.  Not federalizing the force in any way.  (Mexico has federal force and is corrupt.)  Better training and I assume better pay if not paid well by some local governments.   


  • stoat
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2020, 09:13:52 am »
If you commit a crime then chose to run and or resist arrest, you are making a choice to escalate things, not only putting yourself but possibly others in a higher level of danger. 


Here is a question...why do black Americans, making up a minority of the population, constitute an overwhelming majority of the crime? 

That's a question for when this becomes a race issue, which it hasn't on here yet. Looking at the evidence this guy resisted arrest but the cop was way out of line putting his knee on his jugular for an extended period of time, and deserves to be done for murder.






  • NorthStar
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2020, 09:16:27 am »
Really flagrant display of whataboutism we got here.

Crime rates are besides the point. There's direct evidence in both the cases linked that the officers were using an illegal hold. That's against regulations, plain and simple, and it warrants them losing their badge at the very least. When it results in death, further charges can (and should) be pursued. Its not like the police exclusively brutalize black people either, there was also the shooting of Daniel Shaver, to name one example.

So...where is the other footage, before the video started? Ii'd like to see that. 

Perhaps the black community could look itself in the mirror and ask "Should we really be committing the majority of crimes in the US?  Should we really have the highest death rate, among ourselves (black on black crime)"?

Why were the police there in the first place?  Oh let me guess...


  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2020, 09:17:09 am »
If you commit a crime then chose to run and or resist arrest, you are making a choice to escalate things, not only putting yourself but possibly others in a higher level of danger. 


Here is a question...why do black Americans, making up a minority of the population, constitute an overwhelming majority of the crime? 

That's a question for when this becomes a race issue, which it hasn't on here yet. Looking at the evidence this guy resisted arrest but the cop was way out of line putting his knee on his jugular for an extended period of time, and deserves to be done for murder.







confuesed?


  • stoat
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2020, 09:19:27 am »
So...where is the other footage, before the video started? Ii'd like to see that. 

Perhaps the black community could look itself in the mirror and ask "Should we really be committing the majority of crimes in the US?  Should we really have the highest death rate, among ourselves (black on black crime)"?

Why were the police there in the first place?  Oh let me guess...

Sure the guy resisted arrest but the cop basically killed him while he was on the ground


  • fka
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2020, 09:23:48 am »
Where is the evidence that he was resisting arrest? Here's five minutes of footage that precedes his death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKV7Mi9YUAQ


Sure, maybe something happened between his exiting the frame and being pinned to the ground, but we haven't seen that yet.


  • 745sticky
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2020, 09:24:24 am »
So...where is the other footage, before the video started? Ii'd like to see that. 

Perhaps the black community could look itself in the mirror and ask "Should we really be committing the majority of crimes in the US?  Should we really have the highest death rate, among ourselves (black on black crime)"?

Why were the police there in the first place?  Oh let me guess...

Dude, the footage before the video started is literally irrelevant. He was clearly being restrained, and the policeman was clearly using an illegal hold while restraining him. He could've moved his leg off the guy's windpipe at any time and still kept him on the ground.

You can't really call it necessary self-defense when the guy is clearly restrained. And regardless of what he was doing before, the police don't get to pass death sentences.


  • plan b
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2020, 09:25:26 am »
I think the real question becomes:

Do we want cops or do we want social workers?

Imagine dealing with with the worst of society everyday. Even domestic disputes become violent and the victims can turn on police. Imagine being subjected to being on video for every interaction. Imagine being put in situations where you might lose your life every time you suit up for a shift

Cops are under a lot of scrutiny and the first thing we do is throw them under the bus. They are constantly challenged by the public and called every name in the book. Imagine being called a pig several times a day.

We love to complain, but most of us could not do the job for even 1 shift. It's not surprising that cops develop and "us vs. them" mentality, and yes sometimes cops make mistakes, and need to be held accountable, but I get tired of these witchhunts.

If you guys want social workers instead, let's put them in uniform and see how far they make it.


  • kyndo
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2020, 09:28:07 am »
Here is a question...why do black Americans, making up a minority of the population, constitute an overwhelming majority of the crime? 

I guess the obvious answer to that would be because a disproportionately high percentage would be lower income, which has a very high correlation with criminal activity.  :undecided:
Also, "overwhelming majority of the crime" is a bit of an exaggeration.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 09:33:20 am by kyndo »


  • 745sticky
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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2020, 09:31:24 am »
I think the real question becomes:

Do we want cops or do we want social workers?

Imagine dealing with with the worst of society everyday. Even domestic disputes become violent and the victims can turn on police. Imagine being subjected to being on video for every interaction. Imagine being put in situations where you might lose your life every time you suit up for a shift

Cops are under a lot of scrutiny and the first thing we do is throw them under the bus. They are constantly challenged by the public and called every name in the book. Imagine being called a pig several times a day.

We love to complain, but most of us could not do the job for even 1 shift. It's not surprising that cops develop and "us vs. them" mentality, and yes sometimes cops make mistakes, and need to be held accountable, but I get tired of these witchhunts.

If you guys want social workers instead, let's put them in uniform and see how far they make it.

The entire point of training should be to weed out people who aren't suitable for the job and prevent shit like this.

We aren't "throwing them under the bus" when there's direct video evidence of them breaking regulations and causing somebody's death. We're pursuing justice. Most people aren't up in arms when a criminal dies during an armed robbery or a shootout or stuff like that, but all the us vs them, constant danger stuff isn't exactly an excuse for brutalizing somebody who is already restrained.


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2020, 09:36:16 am »
If you commit a crime then chose to run and or resist arrest, you are making a choice to escalate things, not only putting yourself but possibly others in a higher level of danger. 


Here is a question...why do black Americans, making up a minority of the population, constitute an overwhelming majority of the crime? 





Commit more crimes or more likely to be arrested and prosecuted?


  • oglop
  • The Legend

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Re: WTF is wrong with American police?
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2020, 09:57:43 am »
america, in my opinion, is the weirdest country in the world