Read 4617 times

Ok, let's try a twist here:

I know that we have signed contracts, but this is life and death we are talking about.  Nobody knew that working during a pandemic was going to be part of the contract stipulations.  It was never mentioned anywhere in the contract that I would have to place my life at risk by working in an environment that is dangerous and could expose me to the virus and kill me.

What if I don't want to work at school for the rest of the year and tell them, "If I work at school and be exposed to students, I might get the virus and die"? 

What would you say about that?  What would they say?   Can they force you to put your life at risk and come to school and work while this virus is still a major issue?

If I break my contract and quit on this basis, do I have a case that this can be an 'exception' for breaking the contract because it's not really part of the contract, but due to life and death reasons, and anyone should have the right to quit and not get penalized if it's about saving your life (like an asylum-seeker's rights)?

Oooh, now let's see who was being over-paranoid, because I bet you or they would say to me, "pffff, you are not going to die of covid19 when you go to school because the risks are so LOW, dumb teacher!"

LOL, and guess what I have been saying for the past 2 months? :O
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 08:58:05 am by fruitloops »


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1222

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Ok, let's try a twist here:

I know that we have signed contracts, but this is life and death we are talking about.  Nobody knew that working during a pandemic was going to be part of the contract stipulations.  It was never mentioned anywhere in the contract that I would have to place my life at risk by working in an environment that is dangerous and could expose me to the virus and kill me.

What if I don't want to work at school for the rest of the year and tell them, "If I work at school and be exposed to students, I might get the virus and die"? 

What would you say about that?  What would they say?   Can they force you to put your life at risk and come to school and work while this virus is still a major issue?

If I break my contract and quit on this basis, do I have a case that this can be an 'exception' for breaking the contract because it's not really part of the contract, but due to life and death reasons, and anyone should have the right to quit and not get penalized if it's about saving your life (like an asylum-seeker's rights)?

Oooh, now let's see who was being over-paranoid, because I bet you or they would say to me, "pffff, you are not going to die of covid19 when you go to school because the risks are so LOW, dumb teacher!"

LOL, and guess what I have been saying for the past 2 months? :O

No one needs to guess what you've been saying, man.  It's all you keep saying, over and over.  You've made your point.  Relax.  This pandemic hasn't just inconvenienced you and your working conditions.  There's a whole world out there and a lot of people that would love to have a paying job in these circumstances.  There are also a whole slew of government of all levels who are working through something new here and mistakes are obviously going to be made. Quit whining, or at least limit it to only once a day. 


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4044

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
No one needs to guess what you've been saying, man.  It's all you keep saying, over and over.  You've made your point.  Relax.  This pandemic hasn't just inconvenienced you and your working conditions.  There's a whole world out there and a lot of people that would love to have a paying job in these circumstances.  There are also a whole slew of government of all levels who are working through something new here and mistakes are obviously going to be made. Quit whining, or at least limit it to only once a day. 
yeah. i'm guessing fruitloops has been getting paid (fully?) the whole time? very fortunate. myself and others have not been so fortunate. then again, i still consider myself lucky because i do still have a job. besides, schools will be starting to open again from next week, right? so what's the problem?


  • Kayos
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1816

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
In my region, if you decide to leave the contract early, the education office won't black list you from coming back in the future. They understand the situation, some people want to go back and be with, or closer to, their families. Some wanted to leave but, some countries went into lockdown and it's much harder to get back home, so have been forced to renew until a date they can get back home safely/easier.
NZ is a country that is on full lockdown, the only flights into NZ are cargo trips, and humanitarian bringing kiwis back home flights (the latter is pretty rare though, and many are getting canceled).

So as long as you give the contracted amount of notice for leaving, and repay some of the bonuses you get, that are for only if you complete the contract, they won't hold it against you if you leave for covid reasons.

As for working in a pandemic. I believe there is something in the contracts that talk about working under stuff like this, and what is expected on both sides. I haven't read the contract in a while, but the co-ordinator at the education office mentioned something about this back in march or feb to us.


No one needs to guess what you've been saying, man.  It's all you keep saying, over and over.  You've made your point.  Relax.  This pandemic hasn't just inconvenienced you and your working conditions.  There's a whole world out there and a lot of people that would love to have a paying job in these circumstances.  There are also a whole slew of government of all levels who are working through something new here and mistakes are obviously going to be made. Quit whining, or at least limit it to only once a day.

You completely deflected the question.   Answer the question if you can.
You can see that I'm right.  It's simple rationale.


You completely deflected the question.   Answer the question if you can.
You can see that I'm right.  It's simple rationale.

What is the question?


yeah. i'm guessing fruitloops has been getting paid (fully?) the whole time? very fortunate. myself and others have not been so fortunate. then again, i still consider myself lucky because i do still have a job. besides, schools will be starting to open again from next week, right? so what's the problem?

ah, yes, you fell into my trap!  hehe.

So that is the typical popular answer: you still have a job and getting full pay, so what's the problem?  I agree.  On the surface of things it seems to be reasonable.   But upon further examination, you'll see that it is not.

If I told you to choose 2 options:   A) skip an entire year and just go straight to the end of the year and get your 35k salary all at once
or B) live out the year with all the experiences, memories, where life is lived, and then get your 35k salary, which one would you choose?

Almost anyone would choose B.  The point of life is not just making money.  It's living it.  I could expand it even further to make it more apparent if you want.   If you had the choice to fast forward your entire life and go to age 65 right now this minute and have 2 million dollars in the bank, would you? 

Most of you wouldn't.  Why not?  Don't you want to 2 million dollars to play with?  Yeah.  But I'd be 65.   The point is, you want to live your life, have experiences, make memories, yada yada yada while earning 2 million dollars over your entire working life span.

So no, it's not fortunate or acceptable to just say, at least you got a job and getting full-time pay doing nothing.  That's not satisfactory to me.  Maybe it is for you.   All I see is irrational fears and because of that, I feel like all I'm doing is breathing for the year just so that I can get my full-time salary.  I hate the idea of just existing and getting paid.  I'd much rather live my life and do what I want than to be a prisoner of irrational fears and paranoia.


In my region, if you decide to leave the contract early, the education office won't black list you from coming back in the future. They understand the situation, some people want to go back and be with, or closer to, their families. Some wanted to leave but, some countries went into lockdown and it's much harder to get back home, so have been forced to renew until a date they can get back home safely/easier.
NZ is a country that is on full lockdown, the only flights into NZ are cargo trips, and humanitarian bringing kiwis back home flights (the latter is pretty rare though, and many are getting canceled).

So as long as you give the contracted amount of notice for leaving, and repay some of the bonuses you get, that are for only if you complete the contract, they won't hold it against you if you leave for covid reasons.

As for working in a pandemic. I believe there is something in the contracts that talk about working under stuff like this, and what is expected on both sides. I haven't read the contract in a while, but the co-ordinator at the education office mentioned something about this back in march or feb to us.

Thank you for the clear and objective response.  Where exactly is your region?  That's exactly what I was saying / thinking as well.
I feel that during this time, I am forced to just be here for the sake of it.  Appearing like I'm doing work is more important than actually doing something is the motto in korea right?

As NETs, we are in much different situation.  We don't have family here or we don't have a long-term life here.  We only exist 1 year at a time.  KTs have a different mindset.  They know even if this year is a wash, they still have 25, 35, 45 years of teaching career to look forward to and all the increased benefits and perks that come with it the longer you stay.

For NETs, it's like, why I am wasting away a year?  I'd rather be at home with my family.  I miss my family.  My only remaining grandfather is isolated in his nursing home and near death.  I already missed one of my grandmother's passing.  Koreans can go home from their pointless deskwarming to their families and children or spouses or friends even.   Most NETs do not have this luxury.  Therefore, it's much more impacting on us (emotionally, mentally) to be here doing nothing while we really could be teaching and having school but to due to irrational fears the entire will be a wash (even if we do start school, things won't be the same, with all the strict guidelines).   I've never felt more distant and pointless in my life as I do right now which is why it makes me miss my family even more and thinking I wish I could be with them right now instead of dragging my derriere to an empty school everyday for the last 3 months.

But yes, this is just me. I understand there are many out there who are very happy.  They love getting paid and not teaching and having much to do.  They'd rather continue this than to go back to the old way.  To each their own.


What is the question?

what would you say if I told you that I didn't want to come to school for work because I could die of covid19?


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1222

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
You completely deflected the question.   Answer the question if you can.
You can see that I'm right.  It's simple rationale.

You put forth a hypothetical question that obviously wasn't genuine.  You clearly don't believe it's a life and death situation so any serious response is unnecessary.  You've just found a new angle to beat the same old drum. 

It's not that I think you're wrong.  Having students stay home while having almost zero enforcement of any serious social distancing rules seems pointless.  I agree.  Lots of people agree and have stated that.  Once.  You just keep reiterating the same thing again and again.  Just complaining over and over isn't helping anything.  You've made your point.  We all know where you stand. 


what would you say if I told you that I didn't want to come to school for work because I could die of covid19?

And the school is open? You can quit. I'm working on the assumption that the government is only opening schools after they deem it safe. At that point, if you personally feel like it's not safe enough for you then you can quit or if the school allows you can go on unpaid leave until you do feel safe about returning. You can't be forced to work. At any time.


And the school is open? You can quit. I'm working on the assumption that the government is only opening schools after they deem it safe. At that point, if you personally feel like it's not safe enough for you then you can quit or if the school allows you can go on unpaid leave until you do feel safe about returning. You can't be forced to work. At any time.

So when the school deems it safe, it somehow magically now protects me and gives me full immunity from contracting covid19?
Amazing.   I didn't know they had those powers!   I could still die from covid19 if I'm at school, especially now that all the students are back.   The risk, despite being well under 0.01% is still too risky for me to die for.  I can't take the chance. 



  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4044

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
ah, yes, you fell into my trap!  hehe.

So that is the typical popular answer: you still have a job and getting full pay, so what's the problem?  I agree.  On the surface of things it seems to be reasonable.   But upon further examination, you'll see that it is not.

If I told you to choose 2 options:   A) skip an entire year and just go straight to the end of the year and get your 35k salary all at once
or B) live out the year with all the experiences, memories, where life is lived, and then get your 35k salary, which one would you choose?

Almost anyone would choose B.  The point of life is not just making money.  It's living it.  I could expand it even further to make it more apparent if you want.   If you had the choice to fast forward your entire life and go to age 65 right now this minute and have 2 million dollars in the bank, would you? 

Most of you wouldn't.  Why not?  Don't you want to 2 million dollars to play with?  Yeah.  But I'd be 65.   The point is, you want to live your life, have experiences, make memories, yada yada yada while earning 2 million dollars over your entire working life span.

So no, it's not fortunate or acceptable to just say, at least you got a job and getting full-time pay doing nothing.  That's not satisfactory to me.  Maybe it is for you.   All I see is irrational fears and because of that, I feel like all I'm doing is breathing for the year just so that I can get my full-time salary.  I hate the idea of just existing and getting paid.  I'd much rather live my life and do what I want than to be a prisoner of irrational fears and paranoia.
yes but this pandemic isn't a normal situation. i don't disagree with you- i think schools should be open too. and you just know that this latest itaewon cluster will delay things yet again, which is ridiculous. but this pandemic isn't ideal for anyone, and everyone is suffering to some degree. i hate deskwarming more than most people, but i would have done it in a heartbeat if it meant getting full pay for the past few months. we all miss our families, but we also knew we'd be away from them when we moved to another country, so i don't really see your point there


You put forth a hypothetical question that obviously wasn't genuine.  You clearly don't believe it's a life and death situation so any serious response is unnecessary.  You've just found a new angle to beat the same old drum. 

It's not that I think you're wrong.  Having students stay home while having almost zero enforcement of any serious social distancing rules seems pointless.  I agree.  Lots of people agree and have stated that.  Once.  You just keep reiterating the same thing again and again.  Just complaining over and over isn't helping anything.  You've made your point.  We all know where you stand.

Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere.  If it goes one way, then it should go the other way as well.  You can't be in the water and then get mad that you are wet.


yes but this pandemic isn't a normal situation. i don't disagree with you- i think schools should be open too. and you just know that this latest itaewon cluster will delay things yet again, which is ridiculous. but this pandemic isn't ideal for anyone, and everyone is suffering to some degree. i hate deskwarming more than most people, but i would have done it in a heartbeat if it meant getting full pay for the past few months. we all miss our families, but we also knew we'd be away from them when we moved to another country, so i don't really see your point there

I agree I agree...but the last part.  If I'm not doing my job (which is fulfilling to me) then I'd rather be living my life with my family than to spend the entire year living in irrational fear and isolation.  I think that is my point.


So when the school deems it safe, it somehow magically now protects me and gives me full immunity from contracting covid19?
Amazing.   I didn't know they had those powers!   I could still die from covid19 if I'm at school, especially now that all the students are back.   The risk, despite being well under 0.01% is still too risky for me to die for.  I can't take the chance.

No, it doesn't magically make it safe. You make a decision for yourself just like millions of other people around the world will need to make a decision. You weigh up your need for money versus the risk you think you're taking.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4044

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
I agree I agree...but the last part.  If I'm not doing my job (which is fulfilling to me) then I'd rather be living my life with my family than to spend the entire year living in irrational fear and isolation.  I think that is my point.
well you're free to quit if that's more important to you, or fly your entire family out to korea :p


No, it doesn't magically make it safe. You make a decision for yourself just like millions of other people around the world will need to make a decision. You weigh up your need for money versus the risk you think you're taking.

Not actually in our case.  We don't get to choose.  Someone is deciding that for us, and forcing us to either work or quit.  If I quit, it should not be my fault at all.  I don't want to quit.  I love my school.  But do I want to die for it? No.


well you're free to quit if that's more important to you, or fly your entire family out to korea :p

it's actually an illusion.  It's not really "free" to choose.  If I give you 2 choices, and you have the freedom to choose,
you are not actually making a free choice.  You are only free to choose between the 2 choices given to you.  You
essentially still "forced".


Not actually in our case.  We don't get to choose.  Someone is deciding that for us, and forcing us to either work or quit.  If I quit, it should not be my fault at all.  I don't want to quit.  I love my school.  But do I want to die for it? No.

That's the choice people will have to make. These are not normal circumstances. By waiting to allow students back the government is trying to make it as safe as possible.  There will never be a 100% guarantee that you won't get it. How do we choose what is an acceptable level of risk for people?