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got it!
« on: April 23, 2020, 09:41:49 pm »
thanks!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 04:36:58 pm by traveler224 »


Re: Contract Review help... Is this okay?!
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2020, 10:26:47 am »
When  a real contract review is done the moderators tend to delete the posts.
Really it is a legal issue for them to have any comments made public on Waygook because there are laws in Korea (Section 330 Crimes Against Reputation) which posting anything that might "damage" another persons reputation is a criminal act.

Only "good things" can be posted about the contract.


Re: Contract Review help... Is this okay?!
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2020, 12:30:16 pm »
1. 9-6 is pretty long for 2.3
2. The deposit, 200x3 months is illegal refuse that strongly.

3. It does not state anywhere in this contract what a teaching hour is. If youíre teaching 8 hours a day youíre gonna burn out quick.

4. Ask for more this job sounds like a lot of work for very average pay.


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1941

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: got it!
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2020, 06:57:16 pm »
Security deposit 200k x3 months are very common in public schools. Not sure itís illegal.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5149

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: got it!
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2020, 08:23:46 pm »
When  a real contract review is done the moderators tend to delete the posts.
Really it is a legal issue for them to have any comments made public on Waygook because there are laws in Korea (Section 330 Crimes Against Reputation) which posting anything that might "damage" another persons reputation is a criminal act.

Only "good things" can be posted about the contract.
Well, actually, we're free to make critical comments on bad contracts: there are contracts out there that sort of need it. However, we're asked to not do it on the posted job thread itself.

The reason for this is that there are a number of posters who will remain unnamed who like to post very negative comments on Every.Single.Posted .Contract. Basically, they're not happy with the low offered wages. Which is fair: 2.0 million is low, but since a fair percentage of *all* ESL jobs here in Korea are at around that wage, it doesn't do anybody any good to rip the recruiter apart over it. Complaints have been made, and less job posts are now available on this site. Doesn't really directly affect the site (recruiters don't pay to post jobs here), but it does mean that those who use this site to supplement their job searches are missing out.

   Anyway, as has been mentioned before in another thread,  a good compromise would be to link a link to another thread where there can be a more, uh, frank discussion of the contract.
   Also, if the job offer is violating Labour Laws, or seems predatory, *please* report it.


So basically, be as brutally honest as you want on a contract review thread, but avoid doing the same on a job posting thread.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3975

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: got it!
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2020, 08:38:55 pm »
but since a fair percentage of *all* ESL jobs here in Korea are at around that wage, it doesn't do anybody any good to rip the recruiter apart over it.
why? the most important part of any job is the wage.

i've seen jobs recently for 2.3m+ (still shit, but whatever). so, yes, 2.0 is low. incredibly low. yet those posts still got deleted

i mean it's not like i'm looking for a job, but if i were a young/new teacher and saw job ads advertising these wages, i'd appreciate someone letting me know that i was getting ripped off


Re: got it!
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2020, 09:53:22 am »
To thunderlips:

As that contract was written the deposit money was going to be used to cover all costs of replacing the teacher if he or she left before the contract finished. This is completely illegal by Korean labor laws.

Strongly reject any time a hagwon asks for a deposit.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5149

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: got it!
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2020, 12:30:54 pm »
why? the most important part of any job is the wage.
i've seen jobs recently for 2.3m+ (still shit, but whatever). so, yes, 2.0 is low. incredibly low. yet those posts still got deleted
i mean it's not like i'm looking for a job, but if i were a young/new teacher and saw job ads advertising these wages, i'd appreciate someone letting me know that i was getting ripped off
Yeah, it *is* low...
Wait. Hold on. This is a golden opportunity for me to play Devil's Advocate! Lemme shift gears here for a sec:

It *is* low, but so are the ESL wages in most other countries. Want to teach English in Spain? Hope you've got a trust fund! In Vietnam? Don't expect to be paying off those student loans etc etc.
Even Japan and Korea, once the lands of milk and honey for people who speak passable English, have seriously downgraded it's entry level oportunities. Most of us here in Korea who have decent wages have probably been here for a while and have the knowledge and experience to land something a bit more cushy than your typical hagwon FOB.

I'm tempted to go into some serious whataboutisms, as I think they might be somewhat relevant here, but I won't 'cause I've seen how badly that tends to go for certain others...  :laugh:

    Instead, I'm going to pull out the ol' classic about not everybody who arrives here is in it purely for the money. We have the local equivalent of weeaboos who would actually pay money to be able to live in Seoul, we have the gap year folk who do it purely for the (admittedly awesome) experience, and we have folk who are here to reconnect with their roots, some are here because they literally can't find anything better suited to them back in their home country etc etc.
   Sure, a lot of us might feel that hagwons paying 1.8 are ridiculous, but that's not *necessarily* how everybody sees it. Some are here working for peanuts for the same reason people working in Thailand do: because they feel that various other reasons more than make up for the terrible wages.
   Because of this, I figure that the well established trend of lowball job offers are going to continue regardless of how many people are warned off accepting job posts here.
   
  Another issue with people ripping apart job postings is that it's typically the same half dozen posters who make the same generic "this contract sucks" comments on pretty much every single job post.  :rolleyes: They could save themselves a lot of effort by just creating a new thread, and just posting a link to it on every job post thread. 

   If there is something illegal or truly predatory in the contract then pointing it out is, of course, doing everybody a favour, but the (rather aggressive) hyperbole some people post about what is currently a pretty standard 30-teaching-hours-for-2.1 contract only makes recruiters unwilling to post their jobs on waygook (several no longer do for this exact reason), which is doing potential job seekers a bit of a disservice.


   As mentioned before, unless the posted job breaks labour laws etc, discussions about the general quality of a job offer are probably better done on a separate thread.  :undecided:


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3975

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: got it!
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2020, 02:13:25 pm »
yes but this board is for jobs in korea, not other places in the world. and in korea, 2.0 is a shit salary (for 30+ hours of teaching)

just because some people don't come here for the money, it doesn't mean they still aren't being ripped off

anyway i know i'm not going to win this. this post will probably be deleted anyway so


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5149

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: got it!
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2020, 02:44:24 pm »
I don't really disagree with you.
Just giving the reasoning behind why certain comments are being disappeared from job posts.

Also, I didn't delete the end of oglop's post. Promise!


  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1312

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: got it!
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2020, 02:49:50 am »
yes but this board is for jobs in korea, not other places in the world. and in korea, 2.0 is a shit salary (for 30+ hours of teaching)

just because some people don't come here for the money, it doesn't mean they still aren't being ripped off

anyway i know i'm not going to win this. this post will probably be deleted anyway so

Remember...30 teaching hours does not necessarily equate to 30 classes per week.



  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1941

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: got it!
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2020, 07:31:43 am »
To thunderlips:

As that contract was written the deposit money was going to be used to cover all costs of replacing the teacher if he or she left before the contract finished. This is completely illegal by Korean labor laws.

Strongly reject any time a hagwon asks for a deposit.

Am I not worthy of a quote???   

:D  Yeah if it is being used as extortion then I'd agree. But that doesn't mean it is illegal for employers to ask for security deposit. The new intake of April jobs in JLP have some horror stories of being given housing that the previous teacher used as a garbage dump, literally.


Re: got it!
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2020, 07:48:31 am »
The new intake of April jobs in JLP have some horror stories of being given housing that the previous teacher used as a garbage dump, literally.
Sheesh, what's wrong with some people? I have my own housing now, but when I was living in school provided housing I made damn sure they were spotless before I left, including a deep clean of the bathroom/kitchen areas. I also took pics every single time I left, just in case the landlord tried to pull something funny.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5149

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: got it!
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2020, 08:19:20 am »
No doubt. We bought an apartment in a fairly new complex (around 8 years old), and it was totally trashed. Mold *everywhere*, the door frames shattered, the doors destroyed, stickers and marker all over the windows, which had likely never once been cleaned. Naked concrete walls, chipped and dented floors, broken tiling...
     The real-estate agent was kind of horrified when she showed us the place... but I guess I shouldn't complain: we got about 20 million knocked off the asking price because of it, and were able to renovate most of it for around 12-13 million.  :smiley:


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1941

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: got it!
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2020, 08:24:47 am »
No doubt. We bought an apartment in a fairly new complex (around 8 years old), and it was totally trashed. Mold *everywhere*, the door frames shattered, the doors destroyed, stickers and marker all over the windows, which had likely never once been cleaned. Naked concrete walls, chipped and dented floors, broken tiling...
     The real-estate agent was kind of horrified when she showed us the place... but I guess I shouldn't complain: we got about 20 million knocked off the asking price because of it, and were able to renovate most of it for around 12-13 million.  :smiley:

Yeah to be fair though these apartments are put together quickly and cheaply. We been in our place for 4-5 years and the tiles are cracking, laminate on doors peeling, little mold but we fight that, molding chips easily. Not excusing neglect on upkeep.  We are hoping to sell next year, but don't have 10-15 mil to renovate it. So we will just reduce our asking price too.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5149

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: got it!
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2020, 08:32:30 am »
    Yeah, it's pretty common in apartments here from what I've seen.
    Thankfully, in our case, the actual structure is pretty decent, and the complex management does an amazing job on the landscaping and stuff, so really the problems were mostly just cosmetic.
    Also, I enjoy messing about with that kind of stuff, so it was kind of a blessing in disguise.
    Pro-tip: rip out the bathroom fans and install something that'll mess up your hair when you turn it on: saves you the bother of having to replace doors, linoleum, and moldings!  :smiley:
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 08:36:29 am by kyndo »


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1941

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: got it!
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2020, 09:09:13 am »
    Yeah, it's pretty common in apartments here from what I've seen.
    Thankfully, in our case, the actual structure is pretty decent, and the complex management does an amazing job on the landscaping and stuff, so really the problems were mostly just cosmetic.
    Also, I enjoy messing about with that kind of stuff, so it was kind of a blessing in disguise.
    Pro-tip: rip out the bathroom fans and install something that'll mess up your hair when you turn it on: saves you the bother of having to replace doors, linoleum, and moldings!  :smiley:



  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3975

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: got it!
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2020, 09:12:28 am »
Yeah to be fair though these apartments are put together quickly and cheaply. We been in our place for 4-5 years and the tiles are cracking, laminate on doors peeling, little mold but we fight that, molding chips easily. Not excusing neglect on upkeep.  We are hoping to sell next year, but don't have 10-15 mil to renovate it. So we will just reduce our asking price too.
i mean, my MIL spent 15m renovating her apartment. guess what? 2 years later, the floor is coming up, mold is appearing on the walls, cupboards are falling apart. so even renovating isn't worth it, it seems. insane


Re: got it!
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2020, 09:19:03 am »
i mean, my MIL spent 15m renovating her apartment. guess what? 2 years later, the floor is coming up, mold is appearing on the walls, cupboards are falling apart. so even renovating isn't worth it, it seems. insane

I imagine renovations are done in a similar manner to new construction, fast and cheap without much attention to detail. Buildings here are made to be torn down in 30-40 years, or so I was told.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3975

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: got it!
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2020, 10:29:58 am »
I imagine renovations are done in a similar manner to new construction, fast and cheap without much attention to detail. Buildings here are made to be torn down in 30-40 years, or so I was told.
yep. it's just all so horribly dodgy. there couldn't be a tv show like "Rogue Traders" in korea because "rogue" is the norm