Read 3820 times

Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« on: March 21, 2020, 10:55:45 pm »
Well, thanks to this whole virus scare that got the entire world to close down schools, now that we are approaching 1 month of no schooling,
I am starting to think that we can begin to see that kids and families are actually doing just fine without school.

Yes, believe it or not.   I think we are getting a glimpse of seeing what we are usually blind to, and that is, what happens to life and to people when
you stop doing the "normal" routine of things?   The answer?  Nothing really changes. 

I've been in contact with a lot of students over this "break" and it has been 3 months since most students have been in school (count the 2 months of winter
break and the 1 month of the virus break).  And while many of them are quite bored or want to go to school because they miss their friends or something,
most of them actually look quite happy, are doing a lot of creative things, still studying doing hagwon (music, taekwondo, dance, singing, arts, math, science, english,
social studies) and other extra-curricular activities, even just having free time to do things they don't normally have the time to do, I think life could "arguably"
go on this way and they would be JUST FINE.   

Schools could literally go on-line, and you could have separate social functions or activities, but there is no need to have kids in classrooms anymore.  Of course, this won't
change in the near future, but I'm telling you, the future of education is going to change big-time.  It's not going to be about schools and classrooms anymore.  We are
not going to be bound by time and location and resources.  It will be virtually so creative and innovative that when the day comes, we'll look back and think how crazy it was
that we sat in classrooms and went to school for 8 hours a day.

I think we are getting a glimpse of the future right now.   It may be in it's infancy stages and it's quite messy and unorganized but kids are arguably learning more from watching
youtube videos daily, tutorials, how tos, and other social media apps, even from movies, tv shows, music, etc., or just simply  reading books which they have access to either in
physical form or digital, and the most important ones, apprenticeship (whether it be from your own parents, siblings, friends, or an actual private tutor, coach, etc.,), they don't need
school as much as we think or thought.    In fact, I would argue they would do better in life without school than with it.    Not saying school is bad, just saying I think that schooling
is overrated.   

When I look at my life, most of what I am and use today didn't come from schooling but what I learned in my private time with other individuals, communities, apprenticeship, mentors,
and just life experience.  Very little of whatever it was I did spending 20+ years of my life in school actually has any real value with me today aside from maybe 1 or 2 subjects.

Food for thought.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5292

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2020, 06:09:17 am »
Are you talking about Korea or the whole world? If you are talking about the whole world your theory is destined to fail as not every family has access to the internet.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • stoat
  • Expert Waygook

    • 873

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2020, 07:29:16 am »
Well, thanks to this whole virus scare that got the entire world to close down schools, now that we are approaching 1 month of no schooling,
I am starting to think that we can begin to see that kids and families are actually doing just fine without school.

Yes, believe it or not.   I think we are getting a glimpse of seeing what we are usually blind to, and that is, what happens to life and to people when
you stop doing the "normal" routine of things?   The answer?  Nothing really changes. 

I've been in contact with a lot of students over this "break" and it has been 3 months since most students have been in school (count the 2 months of winter
break and the 1 month of the virus break).  And while many of them are quite bored or want to go to school because they miss their friends or something,
most of them actually look quite happy, are doing a lot of creative things, still studying doing hagwon (music, taekwondo, dance, singing, arts, math, science, english,
social studies) and other extra-curricular activities, even just having free time to do things they don't normally have the time to do, I think life could "arguably"
go on this way and they would be JUST FINE.   

Schools could literally go on-line, and you could have separate social functions or activities, but there is no need to have kids in classrooms anymore.  Of course, this won't
change in the near future, but I'm telling you, the future of education is going to change big-time.  It's not going to be about schools and classrooms anymore.  We are
not going to be bound by time and location and resources.  It will be virtually so creative and innovative that when the day comes, we'll look back and think how crazy it was
that we sat in classrooms and went to school for 8 hours a day.

I think we are getting a glimpse of the future right now.   It may be in it's infancy stages and it's quite messy and unorganized but kids are arguably learning more from watching
youtube videos daily, tutorials, how tos, and other social media apps, even from movies, tv shows, music, etc., or just simply  reading books which they have access to either in
physical form or digital, and the most important ones, apprenticeship (whether it be from your own parents, siblings, friends, or an actual private tutor, coach, etc.,), they don't need
school as much as we think or thought.    In fact, I would argue they would do better in life without school than with it.    Not saying school is bad, just saying I think that schooling
is overrated.   

When I look at my life, most of what I am and use today didn't come from schooling but what I learned in my private time with other individuals, communities, apprenticeship, mentors,
and just life experience.  Very little of whatever it was I did spending 20+ years of my life in school actually has any real value with me today aside from maybe 1 or 2 subjects.

Food for thought.

Kids will still go to school so both parents can work, or have the house to themselves for a while. 


Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2020, 10:06:43 am »
The firs part of your title:

Īs School Really Overrated?
Very generalised statement. Which school? Which students?  Students and institutions vary greatly. However, it's a legitimate question.

It appears so...
There's next to no data to even entertain your hypothesis, let alone conclude it. 6-8 weeks without school across the world, your sample group is huge and varied, way too many confounds, too short a time away from school to draw a comparison etc.

There's much more that a child learns at school besides knowledge from even a performance based curriculum:

- How to develop relationships with peers
- How to deal with conflict, embarrassment and shame, disappointment etc.
- Learning empathy
- Developing confidence
- Learning life skills

Stoat made another critical point. Parents can't always bring their kids to work.

On a related note, many companies are finding that the productivity of their employees has increased now that they're working from home. Korea, in particular, needs to take note of this.
I'm hoping that the future will entail a greater emphasis on productivity and a shift away from the facade of competence; employers should be able to choose where and how they do their work, if their efficiency increases by 60% because they're working from home, in their PJs, with a cat on their lap, them let them do just that.


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1643

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2020, 01:39:36 pm »
Don't forget a lot of work requires navigating the often annoying politics of it. Also you got to pander to customers. And going to an actual physical school helps develop the interpersonal skills necessary to survive real life.


Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2020, 12:57:11 pm »
True being in school helps develop relationships, but so does working out of your parents shop, attending religious services, meeting family friends, playing with neighborhood children, etc.

It's not like all those things cease with home schooling. That being said, if parents aren't careful they can certainly neglect those things. Also, sometimes homeschooled children can be MORE mature than their peers if their primary interactions are with other adults and involve a big dose of responsibilities, business-related labor and so on.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1679

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2020, 01:02:48 pm »
Socialization for breaking down class barriers
+
Time discipline for the workforce

[Edit: to some degree... equalizing opportunity for smart poor kids to outperform dumb rich kids]

=
The benefits of public education

Home schooling, private academies and any other form of alternate education can be educational otherwise, but not clearly in those respects!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:05:08 pm by VanIslander »


Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2020, 01:05:34 pm »
Public school can amplify class barriers because kids form cliques, often centered around class/race.


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1679

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2020, 01:33:16 pm »
Public school can amplify class barriers because kids form cliques, often centered around class/race.
NOT AT ALL my experience in three cities in B.C., Canada.

Cliques yes, but clearly not on racial, richness grounds, at least for the boys.

I recall the girls clique had a lot of "Heathers", but it was more based on looks than income. (Sorry i don't use the word "class". I didn't learn that until university. Maybe it's a Brit thing?)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:40:13 pm by VanIslander »


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4291

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2020, 06:16:28 pm »
NOT AT ALL my experience in three cities in B.C., Canada.

Cliques yes, but clearly not on racial, richness grounds, at least for the boys.

I recall the girls clique had a lot of "Heathers", but it was more based on looks than income. (Sorry i don't use the word "class". I didn't learn that until university. Maybe it's a Brit thing?)

Looks are greatly influenced by income.
Having the money to dress in the right brands, afford cosmetics... even eat well... all imparts appearances.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3229

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2020, 06:20:14 pm »
Public school can amplify class barriers because kids form cliques, often centered around class/race.
i didn't really know about class until i went to uni, then realised i was very much working class.

in school, everyone's wearing uniforms and, at least at my school, everyone seemed to be mingle with each other regardless of background

just my school/uni experience though


Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2020, 09:45:41 am »
All valid points!

Yes, I think schooling as we know it currently has many benefits and I didn't mean to trash it.  Of course it is still important and the primary
mode or way of life for raising children/youth into adulthood.    I just think it is overrated.   If we didn't have the school system, would you fail to grow up and live the rest of your life?  No.   Of course not.  At worst, you would be no worse off or better off than the bottom dwellers that attend the school systems from K-12.

Of course if you compare the extremes,  you can find larger discrepancies.    We also tend to forget that institutionalized education system hasn't even been around that long in the scope of human civilization.   If anything, it was more of a "mass production" method to systematically educate the populace as way to efficiently use the limited resources we had in the past.   There would be no way to do what we can do today 100 years ago or even just 50 years ago.    This also created these tier groups categorized by age instead of competence, ability, or experience.   We created the idea of "teens" when previously there was no such thing.  You were either a child and became a young man into adulthood.  There was no such thing as teenagers/kids/adolescents...this whole culture of underage/minors etc.

In the real world, you were a child and you faced reality in its rawness and you had to grow up a lot faster (good and bad).  Since institutionalized education came into practice, we created this entire sub-category of human beings where millions of "teens" now had nothing to do because they were "children" and couldn't work yet created one of the largest markets for capitalism/consumerism industry as teens have too much time on their hands now and live in the "disney" decade of just materialistic innocent childhood stage indulging in the booming market for them.

I find it very strange that this thing still exists today.  It's going to change 100% I can guarantee it.  There's no way we are going to continue this outdated system that was created to produce assembly line workers and office workers.  We are no longer bound by these rules.  The 9 to 5 is changing.   Schools will change also.  To be honest with you, "kids/teens" are capable of far more than we give them right now in this coddled century we have lived in.  They are way too ahead of the times and even some of the materials that we teach right now as English teachers are so immature and so behind for the kids.  For example, just look at the stuff we still teach to our grade 6 students.  How embarrassing for them because the songs and the stories are so kindergarten level that the grade 6s really are bored out of their minds or too embarrassed to sing them.  Some curriculum are improving  but still, the material is so babyish for today's 13 year olds.  The stuff that they love and listen to and watch and do is closer to adult material.

What I believe will happen first is the introduction and implementation of new tiers based on competency, ability, maturity/experience rather than age.  To simply say that all 8 year olds or all 12 year olds are equal across the board is ignoring the fact that we are slowing some down or progressing too fast for others.    I think the future of education will be much more catered to the specific needs of each unique individual and their attributes, rather than to throw 30 people all into the same class/program because they share the same birth year.  How old-fashioned and square of us to keep doing this.    There already are special schools and programs that do something like this and I have even witnessed one student of mine who actually LEFT Korea because he was struggling so bad in school and his personal life here.  He was sent to the Philippines to a special school there and the report back from his family after 1 year, 2 years etc., has been 500% better.  They said he changed like night and day.  His passion, his motivation, his personality, his emotional and mental state, everything has improved and he's doing so much better in that system (he's doing all kinds studies along with what appears to be field-trip/hands on experience...things like archery, scuba diving, along with personalized english, math, and science studies).  His peers are all different ages, and it looks to be a lot more specialized for the individual.

Anyways,  for the time being, for the sake of keeping the masses under control and using resources efficiently, I suppose the school system is good for that (a great babysitter while educating your kids academically and social-interaction), but it's too generic and too standardized.



  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4276

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2020, 10:05:25 am »
Schools are closed, but the vast majority of private educational institutions in Seoul continue to offer classes in defiance of the social distancing campaign

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200324000737

Students and parents are asking hagwon to reopen, as kindergartens and elementary, middle and high schools across the country are still on a long winter vacation. They are so far set to reopen April 6, far later than ever before.

On Tuesday, Vice Minister of Education Park Baek-beom hinted that schools may stay closed beyond the scheduled date.


Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2020, 10:13:57 am »
Schools are closed, but the vast majority of private educational institutions in Seoul continue to offer classes in defiance of the social distancing campaign

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200324000737

Students and parents are asking hagwon to reopen, as kindergartens and elementary, middle and high schools across the country are still on a long winter vacation. They are so far set to reopen April 6, far later than ever before.

On Tuesday, Vice Minister of Education Park Baek-beom hinted that schools may stay closed beyond the scheduled date.


social distancing campaign......oh my lord.  Why don't they just separate all children from their parents homes because you don't want kids and parents to be in close contact with each other for fear of spreading the virus! 

Yes, I tend to believe that april 6 re-opening is a very improbable and optimistic outlook.  Even if it does re-open April 6, the moment we hear about a small outbreak in a school in busan or somewhere, all schools in the country will close again.   It's either shut it down for the whole year or stop living in fear and just continue our lives as normal being mindful of good practices. 


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3229

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2020, 10:15:03 am »
Yeah.. What can you do though? People gotta earn money, and the Govt isn't paying support for hagwons. Easy to social distance if you don't have to worry about your business shutting down or feeding your family


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3229

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2020, 10:16:22 am »
social distancing campaign......oh my lord.  Why don't they just separate all children from their parents homes because you don't want kids and parents to be in close contact with each other for fear of spreading the virus! 

Yes, I tend to believe that april 6 re-opening is a very improbable and optimistic outlook.  Even if it does re-open April 6, the moment we hear about a small outbreak in a school in busan or somewhere, all schools in the country will close again.   It's either shut it down for the whole year or stop living in fear and just continue our lives as normal being mindful of good practices. 
The fact they keep doing it a couple weeks at a time is infuriating. I don't get paid if I don't work, but it makes it very difficult to find other part time work as I can't plan ahead...


Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2020, 12:15:00 pm »
The fact they keep doing it a couple weeks at a time is infuriating. I don't get paid if I don't work, but it makes it very difficult to find other part time work as I can't plan ahead...

I know what you mean.  I guess like any other country, nobody really knows and everyone is just playing it week to week and making new decisions like that.   I really feel bad for the people who are losing a lot of money during this time.  Small businesses, like shops, restaurants, cafes, and even hagwons, all really suffering.  I would suggest that people consider looking into online moneymaking methods.  There are plenty out there.  I've been doing it since 2011 and it's good side income to make while holding down a full-time job.  It's all about multiple income flow....that's the future (or the present should I say).  We are no longer limited to or bound by the old 1 hour = 1 hour wage.   Nope.  It could be 1 hour = 20 hours wage if you wanted.  Heh, all of us using this very forum/platform is putting good money into someones pocket! I should have started my own waygook forum ho ho.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 12:22:57 pm by fruitloops »


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4276

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2020, 12:25:59 pm »
What are you doing to make money online?


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3229

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Is Schooling Really Overrated? It Appears So.
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2020, 12:59:23 pm »
I know what you mean.  I guess like any other country, nobody really knows and everyone is just playing it week to week and making new decisions like that.   I really feel bad for the people who are losing a lot of money during this time.  Small businesses, like shops, restaurants, cafes, and even hagwons, all really suffering.  I would suggest that people consider looking into online moneymaking methods.  There are plenty out there.  I've been doing it since 2011 and it's good side income to make while holding down a full-time job.  It's all about multiple income flow....that's the future (or the present should I say).  We are no longer limited to or bound by the old 1 hour = 1 hour wage.   Nope.  It could be 1 hour = 20 hours wage if you wanted.  Heh, all of us using this very forum/platform is putting good money into someones pocket! I should have started my own waygook forum ho ho.
go on then. tell us how to make 20x our wages