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  • Kayos
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1782

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #180 on: January 10, 2020, 09:10:57 am »
Minimum wage was suppose to be 10,000 won an hour by now.  It spiked over the last 3 years or so, mostly pushed by current Pres.  He actually slowed it down this year due to effects it had on inflation and the negative toll it was taking on the economy.  It went up too fast, too quickly.  As of last year a full time minimum wage job equaled over 1.7 million won a month. 

It is time for esl wages to go up.  In 2008 or so, in todays money, entry level esl gigs would be equal to 3 million won a month.  But every time I say it should be more, lots of folks seem to think it should still be low and jump through hoops on here to defend it and push defeatism.  Either way, demand a big raise or walk away and teach in another country with a much cheaper living cost.  There are some good paying gigs over in China right now with a lower living cost.

The problem with China is the government.
And, from what I've heard, from people who have worked there, there is also less job security for foreigners.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4860

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #181 on: January 10, 2020, 09:12:34 am »
Also, bad air pollution in China.


  • hangook77
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1700

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2020, 09:16:40 am »
Minimum wage was suppose to be 10,000 won an hour by now.  It spiked over the last 3 years or so, mostly pushed by current Pres.  He actually slowed it down this year due to effects it had on inflation and the negative toll it was taking on the economy.  It went up too fast, too quickly.  As of last year a full time minimum wage job equaled over 1.7 million won a month. 

It is time for esl wages to go up.  In 2008 or so, in todays money, entry level esl gigs would be equal to 3 million won a month.  But every time I say it should be more, lots of folks seem to think it should still be low and jump through hoops on here to defend it and push defeatism.  Either way, demand a big raise or walk away and teach in another country with a much cheaper living cost.  There are some good paying gigs over in China right now with a lower living cost.

The problem with China is the government.
And, from what I've heard, from people who have worked there, there is also less job security for foreigners.

The government isn't great for some folks.  But they don't care about English teachers as long as they don't poke their nose in CCP business and who don't talk politics with the students.  Otherwise, make money, live life, and then get out. 

Send a huge amount of salary home each month.  Use an official at your school to send it for you to your bank back home or send it via Western Union if you have a relative you trust to pick it up and deposit it in your bank account back home.  There is less security for foreigners even here.  A bad hakwon that skips out on paying your wages, tries to fire on trumped up charges.  Risks everywhere. 


  • Kayos
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1782

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #183 on: January 10, 2020, 09:30:07 am »
Minimum wage was suppose to be 10,000 won an hour by now.  It spiked over the last 3 years or so, mostly pushed by current Pres.  He actually slowed it down this year due to effects it had on inflation and the negative toll it was taking on the economy.  It went up too fast, too quickly.  As of last year a full time minimum wage job equaled over 1.7 million won a month. 

It is time for esl wages to go up.  In 2008 or so, in todays money, entry level esl gigs would be equal to 3 million won a month.  But every time I say it should be more, lots of folks seem to think it should still be low and jump through hoops on here to defend it and push defeatism.  Either way, demand a big raise or walk away and teach in another country with a much cheaper living cost.  There are some good paying gigs over in China right now with a lower living cost.

The problem with China is the government.
And, from what I've heard, from people who have worked there, there is also less job security for foreigners.

The government isn't great for some folks.  But they don't care about English teachers as long as they don't poke their nose in CCP business and who don't talk politics with the students.  Otherwise, make money, live life, and then get out. 

Send a huge amount of salary home each month.  Use an official at your school to send it for you to your bank back home or send it via Western Union if you have a relative you trust to pick it up and deposit it in your bank account back home.  There is less security for foreigners even here.  A bad hakwon that skips out on paying your wages, tries to fire on trumped up charges.  Risks everywhere.

Personally, I'll take Korea over China.
I'd hate having to rely on a co-worker to send money out, and hate having to rely on family to get it and put it into my account. It's much easier in Korea to send money.
Internet is much less censored here in Korea, and much more stable. I know you can use a vpn, but when you do a lot of online gaming like me, they slow things down greatly.
That is only hakwon's. Public schools have decent job security here in Korea. In China, public schools have the same level of job security as a bad hakwon here (based on what I've heard).

TBH, the cost of living doesn't seem to be much cheaper than Korea. I could be wrong, but usually when people break it down, it seems to be pretty comparable.


  • KimDuHan
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1328

    • January 15, 2015, 11:48:59 am
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #184 on: January 14, 2020, 04:15:56 am »
I am actually thinking of Canada, but that other guy had a hard time getting hired there...
I have had tough classes and learnt how to deal with that. You will, too. It isn't hard at all for an ESL teacher.

In Canada northern schools will hire you on the spot! Free housing and benefits like living in Korea. 4 months holiday including 2 months in the summer.

Only downfall is it is rural and no social life when school is in session.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5400

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #185 on: January 14, 2020, 05:27:30 am »
Minimum wage was suppose to be 10,000 won an hour by now.  It spiked over the last 3 years or so, mostly pushed by current Pres.  He actually slowed it down this year due to effects it had on inflation and the negative toll it was taking on the economy.  It went up too fast, too quickly.  As of last year a full time minimum wage job equaled over 1.7 million won a month. 

It is time for esl wages to go up.  In 2008 or so, in todays money, entry level esl gigs would be equal to 3 million won a month.  But every time I say it should be more, lots of folks seem to think it should still be low and jump through hoops on here to defend it and push defeatism.  Either way, demand a big raise or walk away and teach in another country with a much cheaper living cost.  There are some good paying gigs over in China right now with a lower living cost.

The problem with China is the government.
And, from what I've heard, from people who have worked there, there is also less job security for foreigners.

Quite right about job security, the common Chinese people are keen to learn English but the government doesn't give a flying fig about it, the less foreigners, the better, so they change visa requirements at the drop of a hat. Easy way to get rid of foreigners.  Winnie the Pooh is so paranoid and even more so now, that it is somewhat dodge to teach in China now.  I LOVED my time there and was really upset when I had to leave due to visa requirements change. Now, in hindsight it was a blessing in disguise. I never rocked the boat, kept a low profile etc, but even though I was treated like a celebrity by my university students, the government always made me feel unwelcome.

At the risk of incurring On Nut's wrath AGAIN, if you want to leave Korea for whatever reason, have a look at Taiwan. Is it perfect?  No, but it is a great alternative to Korea IF you want to move on.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 05:29:39 am by confusedsafferinkorea »
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5400

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #186 on: January 14, 2020, 05:34:12 am »
TBH, the cost of living doesn't seem to be much cheaper than Korea. I could be wrong, but usually when people break it down, it seems to be pretty comparable.

If you are not in one of the big 8 cities, like Beijing or Shanghai etc, then this is not true. Cost of living is way less.

If I had to choose a city in China to live and work, it would be Xiamen. Beautiful, clean, little air pollution and very pleasant climate, very moderate.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • Cohort 2019
  • Expert Waygook

    • 555

    • August 17, 2019, 08:09:23 pm
    • 90°S.- 0'E
    more
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #187 on: January 14, 2020, 06:18:34 am »
In Canada northern schools will hire you on the spot! Free housing and benefits like living in Korea. 4 months holiday including 2 months in the summer.

Only downfall is it is rural and no social life when school is in session.

Really, didn't ForeverP. have a hard time getting hired? Is there also a shortage of teachers in Canada? I'd be really interested to move there.

edit: Apparently you need to be able to speak inuktitut. ;D
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 06:28:57 am by Cohort 2019 »
incumbo studiis


Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #188 on: January 14, 2020, 08:59:51 am »
Like South Korea, Canada graduates more teachers than there are available teaching positions. There isn't a shortage there at all. Teaching grads pretty much have to go teach in Korea or China to get any teaching experience. There are quite a few "official" Canadian schools in China and Korea that use Canadian provincial curricula and hire Canadian teachers.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • KimDuHan
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1328

    • January 15, 2015, 11:48:59 am
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #189 on: January 14, 2020, 10:56:41 am »
In Canada northern schools will hire you on the spot! Free housing and benefits like living in Korea. 4 months holiday including 2 months in the summer.

Only downfall is it is rural and no social life when school is in session.

Really, didn't ForeverP. have a hard time getting hired? Is there also a shortage of teachers in Canada? I'd be really interested to move there.

edit: Apparently you need to be able to speak inuktitut. ;D

He was selective on his choices, northern Canada is begging for teachers. Reserves and northern hamlets need teachers always. Big city centers are maybe full but if you look you can easily get a job as a teacher in Canada.

ForeverP did not want to work in the north. He could of worked in the north for the rest of his career and made bank.

People choose Korea for an adventure and experience because they don’t want to teach in the north. Actually teaching in the north would be more beneficial as the pay is better and it gets you Canadian experience.

Esl in Korea is a dying business with the current wages and situation.

China isn’t any better, Vietnam may fill the void for awhile but really people are just running away from “undesirable” locations in their home countries.


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 681

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #190 on: January 14, 2020, 03:32:18 pm »

Why do all that when you can basically earn the same in China teaching 20-25hrs per week?

I can answer that one:
1.  The basic principles (integrity) of not supporting a communist regime that supports human right atrocities and the tyranny of their people.
2.   Way shittier air
3.   A language that is grating on the ears
4.   Ugly women

Two out of four of those are at least facts.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4151

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #191 on: January 14, 2020, 04:18:45 pm »
1. You (and I) live in a country with a history of government tyranny against its own people...including putting children in slave camps as late as the 80s to make a few extra bucks for the government. If you’re from the US or the UK, your government has been actively involved in genocide in the Middle East since the start of the century, and going back further. Not defending the CCP, but I’m also not going to play the holier government than thou game.

2. Don’t disagree there. I’m willing to substitute shittier air for a higher salary and lower workload...and better food too.

3. Thank goodness for earphones and music!

4. Thankfully there are over half a billion of them, some must at least be alright. If not, I’ve got my left hand handy and ready to go  :P :P
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 04:20:21 pm by waygo0k »


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 681

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #192 on: January 14, 2020, 04:28:17 pm »
1. You (and I) live in a country with a history of government tyranny against its own people...including putting children in slave camps as late as the 80s to make a few extra bucks for the government. If you’re from the US or the UK, your government has been actively involved in genocide in the Middle East since the start of the century, and going back further. Not defending the CCP, but I’m also not going to play the holier government than thou game.

2. Don’t disagree there. I’m willing to substitute shittier air for a higher salary and lower workload...and better food too.

3. Thank goodness for earphones and music!

4. Thankfully there are over half a billion of them, some must at least be alright. If not, I’ve got my left hand handy and ready to go  :P :P

You had a key word in there that makes a huge difference, but let's just ignore that for the sake of feeling better about it.  You sound like the people who explain away racism by saying that slavery isn't legal anymore, lol.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4151

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #193 on: January 14, 2020, 04:39:07 pm »
Don’t tell me the electronic device you’re using to post on here, or any of its components was ‘made in China’...or anything that you own or use for that matter.

Wouldn’t want to be supporting the CCP in any way now would you  :wink:


Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #194 on: January 14, 2020, 06:08:02 pm »
Don’t tell me the electronic device you’re using to post on here, or any of its components was ‘made in China’...or anything that you own or use for that matter.

Wouldn’t want to be supporting the CCP in any way now would you  :wink:

Wow you got him! Now he can't criticize anything about China, no matter how evil and bad, unless he gets rid of anything he owns from China! China could be sending political dissidents to jail and harvesting their organs while they're still alive and just lying there dying as their kidneys get ripped out, and he can't say anything if he has a Hot Wheels car lost under his couch cushions! Amazing logic bro!
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 681

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #195 on: January 14, 2020, 06:46:11 pm »
Don’t tell me the electronic device you’re using to post on here, or any of its components was ‘made in China’...or anything that you own or use for that matter.

Wouldn’t want to be supporting the CCP in any way now would you  :wink:

Ahh, the old your shoes are made of leather Greenpeace protester argument.  I see what I'm dealing with now.  I'll kindly bow out of this before it gets any more nauseating. 


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5400

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #196 on: January 14, 2020, 07:23:08 pm »
4.   Ugly women

Man, you must be walking around with your eyes closed. China has some of the most beautiful women on the planet.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4151

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #197 on: January 14, 2020, 09:37:27 pm »
I never said you can’t criticise China. I simply said you can’t claim to refuse to go to China because of its dodgy human rights record...while supporting that same regime with your money on a daily basis. Seems a bit cognitive dissonancey to me.

Moreover, there are literal boycott movements against countries with questionable human rights practices. For example there’s the BDS movement against Israeli apartheid, there are people who refuse to spend any money on anything relating to North Korea, there are people who refuse to spend money on anything Cuban or related to Cuba etc.

Criticise China all you want...but if you’re going to boycott the country, at least do it fully and properly before tooting your own horn.


  • Colburnnn
  • Expert Waygook

    • 983

    • August 10, 2015, 05:52:37 pm
    • South Korea
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #198 on: January 15, 2020, 07:32:07 am »
4.   Ugly women

Man, you must be walking around with your eyes closed. China has some of the most beautiful women on the planet.

I'd have to agree with you here, although after living in Korea with THE most beautiful girls on the planet, it is always going to seem like a downgrade.
Haven't you got some pictures of birds to be jacking off to, son?

TDS - Hatred of President Trump so intense that it impairs rational thought processes.


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 681

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #199 on: January 15, 2020, 12:13:31 pm »
4.   Ugly women

Man, you must be walking around with your eyes closed. China has some of the most beautiful women on the planet.

Matter of preference of course, but the average Chinese woman walking down the street has never caught my eye.