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  • OnNut81
  • The Legend

    • 2146

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
No worries.  Plenty of folks on here will defend and say nothing can be done about it and then argue with you over 3 pages.  It would stop if most people left and especially those that had mobility left.  I suspect once Covid is done, folks will start bailing.  Other places pay more and put less workload and rules. 

I'm beginning to suspect that despite your continually pointing out better alternatives than ESL in Korea (and the difficulty you have buying clothes that fit) you have no intention of leaving.  Would I be correct?  It seems like you just want others to leave so you can become a more attractive commodity here. 


  • Lazio
  • Expert Waygook

    • 607

    • January 27, 2018, 03:56:10 pm
    • Gyeongi-do
I'm beginning to suspect that despite your continually pointing out better alternatives than ESL in Korea (and the difficulty you have buying clothes that fit) you have no intention of leaving.  Would I be correct?  It seems like you just want others to leave so you can become a more attractive commodity here. 

Yeah, he suddenly has some "mystery" ties now that keep him here. But everyone else is a fool for not realizing how much better off they would be there.
But in a year or two, he is going to be ready to make the jump if things don't start improving.

Clearly, he is desperate to make more money.

And he blames everyone else for not being able to do so. Everyone but himself.
He envies the hagwon owners but doesn't have the balls to start a business. He could've gotten an F class visa years ago but he didn't bother. He could beef up his qualifications but he doesn't do it. He could go back home and start a career in some other field but he doesn't. He blames the bad exchange rate. He blames everyone who accepts 2.1 million. Everyone else has it easier than him. Those that came here before him were lucky. The rich kids (a term he uses frequently) have it easy because they have no debt. Never mind the fact that he seems to have some money management problems.

The solution he came up with is to try to convince people that coming here isn't worth it. (Like in 2021 those that are planning to come here have no way to figure out what they get themselves into. They just see a romantic scene from a drama and buy a plane ticket accepting a job that they believe would make them super rich. They have no clue how much they would be making or how much things cost. There is absolutely no way to figure this out without hangook giving them a run-down on the numbers)
So he single handedly tries to stop the incoming wave of new teachers and pushes others to go to China because they can be raking in it there. This way, he is hoping to create a shortage on the supply side so he can keep his job and his salary may keep up with inflation and rising living costs. There are two problems with this "master" plan though: 1., making hundreds of posts here with this intention isn't going to work. 2., we have to witness his pathetic struggle and desperation on a daily basis.


  • OnNut81
  • The Legend

    • 2146

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Yeah, he suddenly has some "mystery" ties now that keep him here. But everyone else is a fool for not realizing how much better off they would be there.
But in a year or two, he is going to be ready to make the jump if things don't start improving.

Clearly, he is desperate to make more money.

And he blames everyone else for not being able to do so. Everyone but himself.
He envies the hagwon owners but doesn't have the balls to start a business. He could've gotten an F class visa years ago but he didn't bother. He could beef up his qualifications but he doesn't do it. He could go back home and start a career in some other field but he doesn't. He blames the bad exchange rate. He blames everyone who accepts 2.1 million. Everyone else has it easier than him. Those that came here before him were lucky. The rich kids (a term he uses frequently) have it easy because they have no debt. Never mind the fact that he seems to have some money management problems.

The solution he came up with is to try to convince people that coming here isn't worth it. (Like in 2021 those that are planning to come here have no way to figure out what they get themselves into. They just see a romantic scene from a drama and buy a plane ticket accepting a job that they believe would make them super rich. They have no clue how much they would be making or how much things cost. There is absolutely no way to figure this out without hangook giving them a run-down on the numbers)
So he single handedly tries to stop the incoming wave of new teachers and pushes others to go to China because they can be raking in it there. This way, he is hoping to create a shortage on the supply side so he can keep his job and his salary may keep up with inflation and rising living costs. There are two problems with this "master" plan though: 1., making hundreds of posts here with this intention isn't going to work. 2., we have to witness his pathetic struggle and desperation on a daily basis.

Well summed up. 


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3637

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
If nothing changes I will be leaving in a year or two.  I want to leave right now, but am being held back.  If Korea doesn't smarten up, then they will find me and others gone.  No pay raise, lots of new stupid rules, old lame ones being enforced more strictly, and other nonsense.  IT makes no sense they keep doing this unless they really don't understand the changing environment around them.  How can another country pay 4 to 5 million won a month and Korea not start losing people?  I am waiting another year for corona to settle down.  And at that I am having to fight with every fiber of my being to stay when I really don't want to.  I love the teaching and the kids.  But, the lack of pay raise and the increasing nonsense of bureaucracy and more rules.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 10:26:54 am by Kyndo »


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2283

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
And now for a refreshing change: back on topic!
"Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here."
...
...But is the ESL industry in Korea actually struggling though?
Every city I see has a plethora of English hagwons. They're almost as ubiquitous as cafes and chicken joints. English hagwons as a group have even formed lobby groups to influence government policies. I don't see that as a struggling industry.
  I wonder what makes the OP think that the English Industry in Korea is flagging?


  • hippo
  • Super Waygook

    • 320

    • July 16, 2011, 11:28:36 pm
    • Seoul
Achievements Unlocked

  • Grand understanding of global geopolitics with special emphasis on US politics
  • Expert analysis of Korean ESL industry that all Koreans have failed to realize

Step 1 has been completed. The overwhelming majority of people on planet Earth have not yet discovered the one true analysis.  Likewise, ESL teachers and lawmakers in Korea have all been acting as fools.   A planet of some 7 billion and a nation of (what?) 50 million all outsmarted.

Now it is time to  move to stage 2.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3637

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
And now for a refreshing change: back on topic!
"Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here."
...
...But is the ESL industry in Korea actually struggling though?
Every city I see has a plethora of English hagwons. They're almost as ubiquitous as cafes and chicken joints. English hagwons as a group have even formed lobby groups to influence government policies. I don't see that as a struggling industry.
  I wonder what makes the OP think that the English Industry in Korea is flagging?

You really can't see foreigners leaving as corona clears up for 4 to 5 million won a month wages in China and elsewhere? 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 07:05:43 am by Kyndo »


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 7104

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Uiwang
What have you contributed to this site?  I guess it doesn't matter since the moderators side with you.
I actually got quite the bollocking for that poll I made. haha
ETA 2day 4hour 45min to next reboot.
DO NOT UNPLUG


Korea could pay 5 million won a month and some people would bitch and moan that they weren't getting 6. Korea could pay 10 million won a month and they'd bitch they weren't getting 12.

What do you expect from people such as those who externalize blame for their pudginess onto an entire' nation's apparel industry? It's always someone else's fault. And they always aren't being given enough.

Well that and they say things like "An entire nation of people is stupider than me, person who has accomplished nothing and is in a position devoid of noteworthiness."


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3637

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Korea could pay 5 million won a month and some people would bitch and moan that they weren't getting 6. Korea could pay 10 million won a month and they'd bitch they weren't getting 12.

What do you expect from people such as those who externalize blame for their pudginess onto an entire' nation's apparel industry? It's always someone else's fault. And they always aren't being given enough.

Well that and they say things like "An entire nation of people is stupider than me, person who has accomplished nothing and is in a position devoid of noteworthiness."

Actually, I wouldn't.  I want fair pay in relation to the cost of living.  If I were paid 4 million in relation to today's cost of living I would be fine and even be happy to tolerate increased nonsense rules in newer contracts in exchange for it.  If I made 4 million beginning next year and some dolt complained for 10, I guess, I'd have to defect over to your side.  Now, if it were 4 million 10 years from now, it would probably with inflation not be so hot.  When I made 2.1 million years ago, I was happy with it as it was a good salary in relation to the cost of living then.  I have been happy being close to 3 until very recently, but even this will in another year or two be falling behind.  Hence the crossroads at that time I will have to face.  You have to live comfortably and not in poverty. 


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2097

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
Let me get this straight, so everyone is making 2.1 million? I'm making a little more than that, but not much more.


If nothing changes I will be leaving in a year or two.  I want to leave right now, but am being held back.  If Korea doesn't smarten up, then they will find me and others gone.  No pay raise, lots of new stupid rules, old lame ones being enforced more strictly, and other nonsense.  IT makes no sense they keep doing this unless they really don't understand the changing environment around them.  How can another country pay 4 to 5 million won a month and Korea not start losing people?  I am waiting another year for corona to settle down.  And at that I am having to fight with every fiber of my being to stay when I really don't want to.  I love the teaching and the kids.  But, the lack of pay raise and the increasing nonsense of bureaucracy and more rules.

I agree with you, but I don't think the raise will ever come.  I think they will keep it at the same level and hire more and more gyopos until we are squeezed out.  Honestly I don't understand all the vitriol for you with respect for this topic.  The wage needs to be raised ffs! For those of you who disagree... I just don't understand.


  • hangook77
  • The Legend

    • 3637

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
I agree with you, but I don't think the raise will ever come.  I think they will keep it at the same level and hire more and more gyopos until we are squeezed out.  Honestly I don't understand all the vitriol for you with respect for this topic.  The wage needs to be raised ffs! For those of you who disagree... I just don't understand.

I think they are in a comfort zone and my mentioning it moves them out of it.  At any rate, it may take a year or two once covid is done and many teachers will exit.  Then they will either raise the wage or maybe use more gyopos or Koreans as you say.  Then again, moms may want foriengers forcing the hakwon owners and the politicians to keep hiring us but then at higher wages or at the very least start being less strict with us to keep us.  I guess I really should just ignore them.  They contribute nothing to this site anyways. 


I think they are in a comfort zone and my mentioning it moves them out of it.  At any rate, it may take a year or two once covid is done and many teachers will exit.  Then they will either raise the wage or maybe use more gyopos or Koreans as you say.  Then again, moms may want foriengers forcing the hakwon owners and the politicians to keep hiring us but then at higher wages or at the very least start being less strict with us to keep us.  I guess I really should just ignore them.  They contribute nothing to this site anyways. 

I still think you are being naive.  There won't be a massive exodus of NETs once Covid is over.  There will be a host of policies that still make this job shittier for us NET's (at least in the public school system).  I truly think this government is trying to replace us with Koreans with proficient English skills. And I don't blame them.  It's cheaper.


  • pkjh
  • The Legend

    • 2097

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
    • Asia
I still think you are being naive.  There won't be a massive exodus of NETs once Covid is over.  There will be a host of policies that still make this job shittier for us NET's (at least in the public school system).  I truly think this government is trying to replace us with Koreans with proficient English skills. And I don't blame them.  It's cheaper.
They already tried it with their Korean English "Instructors" they hired 10-ish years ago. And they were pretty proficient in English. They were expecting them to teach all in English, but as usual, after students get rowdy not understanding you, you'll tend to default to the language you're most comfortable in.


They already tried it with their Korean English "Instructors" they hired 10-ish years ago. And they were pretty proficient in English. They were expecting them to teach all in English, but as usual, after students get rowdy not understanding you, you'll tend to default to the language you're most comfortable in.

Yeah but it doesn't matter.  They teach to the test and that test is king.  We are just there for window dressing.  We are expendable.  Why are we even needed?  With each year we have had our benefits diminished, yet our responsibilities and scrutiny intensifies.

I started in the Jeolla public school system with a trip home (paid for after resigning) and severance and resigning bonuses, and was paid for camps.  It has been whittled down to nothing there i'm sure .  (Im in Gyeonggi now and people are arguing about a couple of red days!)

The system is squeezing us out.  And has been for a long time!  And honestly I'm happy Hankook is reminding us there is another alternative.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 10:42:44 pm by dippedinblush »


  • KoreaBoo
  • Expert Waygook

    • 618

    • May 25, 2014, 04:00:42 pm
    • Vancouver Island
Let me get this straight, so everyone is making 2.1 million? I'm making a little more than that, but not much more.

2.1M was decent about 20 years ago.  The wages stagnated around 2005 and have not kept up with inflation.  Many left, some were kicked out, some became unemployable.   The reason we are in classrooms is not for our teaching abilities, but for our authenticity with the English language and the desire from parents and adults who want to learn English from an actual individual who grew up in an English-speaking country as their first language.

Hogwans have been,  and always will be glorified baby-sitting services with an English gimmick.  The gov't introduced the public school system to offset the hogwan expenses parents were paying to match their neighbors. 

I left Korea two years ago and read this forum from time to time.  I find it somewhat surprising and disappointing that so many are aware of the inadequacies of their working conditions, but stay because they feel (or possibly do not have) they have no other real opportunities due to their life choices.  This is really amplified within the COVID period.  For me, this has been a fantastic year both professionally and financially.  For others with poorer decisions, not so much.

Is the system squeezing you out?  Not really.  I suspect there are more than enough unemployable gender studies like majors out there who are willing to do anything to get some money after they have come to the realization that their degrees are not marketable in the real world.


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 2283

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
You really can't see foreigners leaving as corona clears up for 4 to 5 million won a month wages in China and elsewhere? 
A lot of people avoid working in China for ethical reasons, and I've heard that it can be challenging to move money out of the country, even for foreigners, so that already makes for 2 big strikes against one of Korea's biggest alternatives.
As for leaving Korea, enough people are shackled by those golden handcuffs that I doubt there will be a huge exodus. I'm just guessing here obviously, but I think that even despite the increasingly low wages being offered, I suspect that Korea will not have a shortage of curious NETs any time soon.

   I agree that in the long term, wages will need to be raised: as you mentioned, other countries are becoming more and more attractive, and eventually financial incentives will overpower any of their relative shortcomings. When that starts to happen, I suspect that we'll see ESL wages jump, but probably not before. I mean, look at Japan: it's become a lot less attractive, and yet the average ESL wage hasn't really gone up at all. In fact, the trend is for them to continue to decrease. Granted, part of that is due to a decrease in demand, but still... :undecided:


Edit: Just noticed that this thread has been locked. Oops.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 07:20:06 am by Kyndo »