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  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1366

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #160 on: January 09, 2020, 09:35:26 am »
Anyway, my point was that someone who was motivated and took their ESL career more seriously could pick up an extra 5k for six weeks of work if they were so inclined.

Well, yeah if they get a MATESOL and DELTA first. Those are expensive  and time consuming to obtain. Then you have a chance to make $5k in six weeks, which is $43k a year (if you went all year without taking a vacation day) ... but you gotta compete with others to get the job. There's no guarantee it's yours.

Most pre-sessional jobs in the UK just ask for a DELTA. 


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4151

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #161 on: January 09, 2020, 09:38:29 am »
China alone has over 1000 fully accredited international schools, and up to 5000 extra international schools that are either partially accredited or lack accreditation.

On average, these schools have 1500-3000 students and employ anything from 200-500 teaching staff, of which 10-20% will comprise of foreign teaching staff, in some schools this percentage could be as high as 30%. You really believe there are enough "children of the staff of international businesses, international organizations, foreign embassies, missions, or missionary programs" to fill these schools?

When you factor in the fact that virtually every country on the planet has these schools (some more than others)...does the wiki claim hold up to the math?

From 2014:
International School Consultancy Group (ISC) indicate that there are now 7,017 international schools around the world meeting the learning needs of over 3.5 million students, all using English as the language for learning.

English-medium international schools are an increasingly significant sector for higher education international student enrolment. No longer are they simply the domain of expatriate children. Today, of the total 3.5 million, over 2.5 million international school students are local children seeking a quality, English-speaking education as a means to acquiring a place at one of the world’s respected universities.

By the end of 2014, ISC predicts there will be 7,200 English-medium international schools teaching over 3.7 million students and that by 2024, there will be over 12,000 international schools teaching 6.9 million students generating an annual fee income of over US $62 billion (£37 billion).


https://monitor.icef.com/2014/03/new-data-on-international-schools-suggests-continued-strong-growth-2/
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 09:46:45 am by waygo0k »


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4856

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #162 on: January 09, 2020, 09:49:31 am »
Accredited international schools require teaching licenses, not DELTAs and MATESOLs.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4856

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #163 on: January 09, 2020, 09:50:05 am »
the average health insurance premium is $440

But for an American teacher it's $98. The employer contributes $514 a month.


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 500

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #164 on: January 09, 2020, 10:11:22 am »
Then why are you still working in ESL?


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4151

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #165 on: January 09, 2020, 10:41:41 am »
Accredited international schools require teaching licenses, not DELTAs and MATESOLs.

Yes, you're partially right. Most accredited international schools require teaching licenses. Some only require teaching qualifications...ot hers require both.

DELTA is a level 7 qualification...it is a level above just having a teaching license. It is a course people usually do if they want to move from teaching to management and director positions.

You're telling me a person with a DELTA and/or MATESOL wouldn't be able to get a job in one of the 1000+ accredited international schools in China? Or the 4000+ other accredited international schools in the rest of Asia? Or the remaining 4000+ international schools in the rest of the world outside Asia?


  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1263

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #166 on: January 09, 2020, 01:27:46 pm »
Accredited international schools require teaching licenses, not DELTAs and MATESOLs.

Yes, you're partially right. Most accredited international schools require teaching licenses. Some only require teaching qualifications...ot hers require both.

DELTA is a level 7 qualification...it is a level above just having a teaching license. It is a course people usually do if they want to move from teaching to management and director positions.

You're telling me a person with a DELTA and/or MATESOL wouldn't be able to get a job in one of the 1000+ accredited international schools in China? Or the 4000+ other accredited international schools in the rest of Asia? Or the remaining 4000+ international schools in the rest of the world outside Asia?

Yeah...I would, if given the power to do so, higher someone with a DELTA and experience over someone with a "teaching license"....


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3775

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #167 on: January 09, 2020, 01:36:27 pm »
is there literally nowhere to do a DELTA in korea now? even the British Council stopped offering DELTAs, according to the bloke i interviewed with


Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #168 on: January 09, 2020, 01:45:24 pm »
is there literally nowhere to do a DELTA in korea now? even the British Council stopped offering DELTAs, according to the bloke i interviewed with

Apparently not.  I'm heading back to Europe next year and was looking at Poland or Czech Republic for the DELTA and a few months knocking around there.  Did my CELTA in Hungary, but that isn't looking so nice at the moment.   

https://www.celtadelta.com/


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3775

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #169 on: January 09, 2020, 01:48:47 pm »
oh well. BC currently offer the Trinity DipTESOL which is apparently the equivalent. but you gotta work there to do it


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4419

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #170 on: January 09, 2020, 01:53:11 pm »
Wikipedia says this: "These schools cater mainly to students who are not nationals of the host country, such as the children of the staff of international businesses, international organizations, foreign embassies, missions, or missionary programs."

... children born overseas to wealthy mothers who can choose what passport their children get.

From experience (as a parent, not a teacher) in Korea and Saudi, I see 70%+ local kids in these schools. Many have Canadian/US/other passports, so they get in even if policies limit local enrollment to 20%.


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1366

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #171 on: January 09, 2020, 02:11:45 pm »
oh well. BC currently offer the Trinity DipTESOL which is apparently the equivalent. but you gotta work there to do it

Are you sure you need to have a provider to do the DELTA these days? I was under the impression you just need to find someone who's qualified as a local DELTA tutor, contact them and arrange for them to observe your classes. Then you have an external assessor come in for the final one. You do the rest of the course online.


Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #172 on: January 09, 2020, 04:55:36 pm »

Incidentally, the average salary for a teacher in California is $80,680. Plus a big benefits package.

Translation: "a first year teacher in California makes $45,000 a year. Average salaries are stupid to talk about when most people don't last more than a couple years. I wouldn't last five minutes teaching at an American public school so I keep living in Korea and posting utter nonsense about fantasy average salaries on Waygook."
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3775

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #173 on: January 09, 2020, 04:57:56 pm »
oh well. BC currently offer the Trinity DipTESOL which is apparently the equivalent. but you gotta work there to do it

Are you sure you need to have a provider to do the DELTA these days? I was under the impression you just need to find someone who's qualified as a local DELTA tutor, contact them and arrange for them to observe your classes. Then you have an external assessor come in for the final one. You do the rest of the course online.
wasn't even aware of this, although it's something to think about. presumably you could find an external assessor/tutor who could assess at the BC? not sure where else to look


  • Cohort 2019
  • Expert Waygook

    • 555

    • August 17, 2019, 08:09:23 pm
    • 90°S.- 0'E
    more
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2020, 01:09:34 am »
I wouldn't last five minutes teaching at an American public school.
Oh come on, I have just sent one of my students to San Fransisco for an exchange and he said that the school was fantastic. In his own words: "Much more disciplined than your class, sir. Everyone is quiet."  ;D
incumbo studiis


Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #175 on: January 10, 2020, 05:26:33 am »
Ok since it's so easy move to the US and work at a public school and let us know how you get on.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • Cohort 2019
  • Expert Waygook

    • 555

    • August 17, 2019, 08:09:23 pm
    • 90°S.- 0'E
    more
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #176 on: January 10, 2020, 08:12:32 am »
I am actually thinking of Canada, but that other guy had a hard time getting hired there...
I have had tough classes and learnt how to deal with that. You will, too. It isn't hard at all for an ESL teacher.
incumbo studiis


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 500

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #177 on: January 10, 2020, 08:32:05 am »
That really raises the question of why L I doesn't qualify as a teacher and take a job in the US. I wonder if we'll ever find out why he continues to work in ESL.


  • hangook77
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1700

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #178 on: January 10, 2020, 08:55:31 am »
Minimum wage was suppose to be 10,000 won an hour by now.  It spiked over the last 3 years or so, mostly pushed by current Pres.  He actually slowed it down this year due to effects it had on inflation and the negative toll it was taking on the economy.  It went up too fast, too quickly.  As of last year a full time minimum wage job equaled over 1.7 million won a month. 

It is time for esl wages to go up.  In 2008 or so, in todays money, entry level esl gigs would be equal to 3 million won a month.  But every time I say it should be more, lots of folks seem to think it should still be low and jump through hoops on here to defend it and push defeatism.  Either way, demand a big raise or walk away and teach in another country with a much cheaper living cost.  There are some good paying gigs over in China right now with a lower living cost. 


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4856

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #179 on: January 10, 2020, 09:02:50 am »
fka,

You've said the same thing three times.

Why do you care so much?

You spreading misinformation is annoying. I correct factual inaccuracies.

Those who exaggerate how bad the West is / how good Korea is (most likely due to their own insecurities / need to be right rather than a desire to help others) ironically make their own life worse by flooding the market more.

Best to not lead others astray.