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  • Cohort 2019
  • Expert Waygook

    • 555

    • August 17, 2019, 08:09:23 pm
    • 90°S.- 0'E
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Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #120 on: January 05, 2020, 08:07:45 pm »
It's hard and it must have been tough for you as well, but from now on you are paying into a good pension plan and you can 'look forward' to life -long tenure in one of the highest pay scales till you are 70! 

You said you are not from NZ, so how did you end up there? Just curious, because you are living my dream life. I have always wanted to live in NZ actually but was just a bit concerned about the earthquakes and Australia's drought. Maybe I might go teach there when I am 60 or so. :)
incumbo studiis


Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #121 on: January 06, 2020, 12:40:20 am »
LOL so now Waygook has gone from "u can make 3 to 5m a month ez with a BA in basket weaving" straight to "the market is fucked and you'll be lucky to make 1.9m."

I guarantee if anyone teaching English in Korea goes home you'll end up making less than 2.1m a month after paying rent, but at least the food will be good and the air will be clean and everything will be in English. Eventually you'll make more but only after several years of hard work and some expensive and time-consuming retraining. The job market in the West has gotten a lot more cut-throat than it was like 5-7 years ago, even with the booming economy.

I was making 3k a month in the states...except that after Uncle Sam took a cut of the monthly paycheck, it was more like 2k and change. Cheapest rooms available in my city are 700-800 USD a month. A monthly Metrocard is another $150. Going out for dinner is at least 20-25 USD per person. Seems great at first, but then you realize how much of a ripoff living in the states really is


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4995

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #122 on: January 06, 2020, 07:40:49 am »
In the words of Jim Rohn, it’s not that prices are too high, it’s that your salary is too low. (Too low = below average.)


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 513

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #123 on: January 06, 2020, 07:44:23 am »
L I...

On the "Exchange rate of suck" thread, I suggested that people frustrated with the employment prospects in Korea could find good opportunities in the US, provided they had taken some extra steps to improve their resume - an advanced degree, some upward job mobility, demonstrable relevant experience, etc. I drew specific attention to my most recent search on Indeed.com, which returned dozens of current vacancies paying upwards of $50k.

Your response was

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Where are these good jobs?

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There aren't plenty of opportunities, though. They're few and far better with more applicants than position openings, just like for the MA TESOL jobs in America. Too saturated. Too much competition.

In this thread, I suggested that someone leaving Korea after a few years of stagnant hagwon or public school teaching shouldn't expect to get anything close to the median salary you've been citing just because they've got a random BA in Whatever, and that the cost of living might offset any salary increase among those who do achieve that. You couldn't get in fast enough to contradict me.

So what exactly is your position? The US offers bounteous opportunities for college graduates, except those with advanced qualifications in TESOL and the kind of experience that is specified in job ads for the numerous vacancies in that field? Should we exclude this category of people in all future discussions of the US job market? What is your specific expertise on this subject, other than "Older folks are saying..."?



  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4995

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #124 on: January 06, 2020, 08:00:48 am »
Where are these good jobs was akin to “show me the graph”. You were saying an MATESOL would lead to a good job in Korea. I said don’t count on it because so many already have it. And there aren’t that many high level openings here. Supply and demand. I said that including in the USA (and everywhere on earth) other masters are more valuable.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4995

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #125 on: January 06, 2020, 08:06:44 am »
You said “plenty of opportunities” for MATESOL holders. I should have said the good job openings are “few and far between”. Autocorrect got me. But you get the point?


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 513

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #126 on: January 06, 2020, 08:09:47 am »
This is what I said:
Quote
There are lots of good jobs in the US and UK for people with MA TESOLs and a couple years' uni experience under their belt. I don't know about the southern hemisphere. Granted, those good jobs will get a lot of applicants in popular markets, but just do a search on Indeed or another site and you'll see plenty.

I don't know how you interpreted US and UK as "Korea", but I'll assume that maybe you just skimmed it quickly. And do I really need to hold anybody's hand and show them how to do a job search? I'm not wasting my time posting random jobs on here when you can take 30 seconds to look for yourself. Here's a head start, though, for people with some EAP experience:

https://www.baleap.org/jobs


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 513

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #127 on: January 06, 2020, 08:11:47 am »
You said “plenty of opportunities” for MATESOL holders. I should have said the good job openings are “few and far between”. Autocorrect got me. But you get the point?

Yeah, I don't care about the autocorrect error. I wasn't referring exclusively to Korea with my comment about plenty of opportunities.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4995

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #128 on: January 06, 2020, 08:17:43 am »
I clicked on the link then clicked on a job. Requirements were high. Salary was pathetic. Competition to get that job will be higher than competition to get jobs in other professional fields. That’s why it’s problematic to keep investing in EFL.


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 513

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #129 on: January 06, 2020, 08:30:46 am »
Most of the jobs in that link are temporary pre-sessional courses that pay around £5,000  (US $6500) for six weeks of work, with free accommodation for those who live outside the area. They are typically recruiting multiple candidates since it's seasonal work, and the requirements would be easy to meet for anyone who's done a year or two of post-MA teaching.

If you think that's a terrible offer compared what Joe Teacher, stepping off the plane from Korea, is likely to get in another field, I don't really know what to tell you.


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 513

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #130 on: January 06, 2020, 08:33:47 am »
In any case, if I'd allowed myself to be influenced by all the negativity I read online, I would've

a) never applied for my first uni job in Korea because "Korean unis now demand x, y, and z"
b) turned down that job offer on account of the embittered commentary of a few weirdo ex-employees
c) not applied to my current, better position because "you have to know someone on the inside to get a job there"

The new claim that I see circulating a lot on Facebook etc. is that nobody will hire you if you have a graduate degree from a Korean university. This despite the fact that virtually none of the people spreading this information have a graduate degree from a Korean university, and I know several people with uni jobs who got their graduate degrees from Korean unis while working here.

Maybe the complainers should've focused their energy on building their careers rather than building mental walls and whining about not being able to scale them.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4033

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2020, 09:00:04 am »
the things i'm getting from this thread are

1. i can earn more money in korea
2. that's partly because uk wages suck
3. if i leave korea, it would take me 10-15 years to maybe reach the money i'm earning now
4. it will be a more difficult job with longer hours


Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #132 on: January 06, 2020, 09:52:12 am »
It's hard and it must have been tough for you as well, but from now on you are paying into a good pension plan and you can 'look forward' to life -long tenure in one of the highest pay scales till you are 70! 

You said you are not from NZ, so how did you end up there? Just curious, because you are living my dream life. I have always wanted to live in NZ actually but was just a bit concerned about the earthquakes and Australia's drought. Maybe I might go teach there when I am 60 or so. :)

Teachers here don't get special pensions, so stop trying to apply non-NZ logic to NZ scenarios. You really have a knack for that.

I'm married to a kiwi so that's why and how I moved here. There's actually a teacher shortage here for the first time in decades--it used to be impossible to get a teaching job here. They're even hiring people from overseas now. But salaries are pretty low. If you want to make more money you want to go to Australia, which is much more anti-immigration than NZ.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #133 on: January 06, 2020, 09:57:54 am »
the things i'm getting from this thread are

1. i can earn more money in korea
2. that's partly because uk wages suck
3. if i leave korea, it would take me 10-15 years to maybe reach the money i'm earning now
4. it will be a more difficult job with longer hours

Depends what you're doing for work. I don't know about UK teaching conditions but in the US and NZ teachers end up working 60 to 80 hours a week due to all the extra things they're expected to do now. Yeah the extra vacation looks nice on paper but you spend a lot of that on planning and grading.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • Kayos
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1816

    • March 31, 2016, 07:13:57 pm
    • NZ
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #134 on: January 06, 2020, 10:18:22 am »
the things i'm getting from this thread are

1. i can earn more money in korea
2. that's partly because uk wages suck
3. if i leave korea, it would take me 10-15 years to maybe reach the money i'm earning now
4. it will be a more difficult job with longer hours

Depends what you're doing for work. I don't know about UK teaching conditions but in the US and NZ teachers end up working 60 to 80 hours a week due to all the extra things they're expected to do now. Yeah the extra vacation looks nice on paper but you spend a lot of that on planning and grading.

Teaching salaries in NZ are really low for the amount of work too. There is a reason the teachers went on strike multiple times in NZ last year.
The current government is finally actually negotiating with the teachers too, as the previous government didn't / wouldn't.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 4033

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #135 on: January 06, 2020, 10:25:46 am »
the things i'm getting from this thread are

1. i can earn more money in korea
2. that's partly because uk wages suck
3. if i leave korea, it would take me 10-15 years to maybe reach the money i'm earning now
4. it will be a more difficult job with longer hours

Depends what you're doing for work. I don't know about UK teaching conditions but in the US and NZ teachers end up working 60 to 80 hours a week due to all the extra things they're expected to do now. Yeah the extra vacation looks nice on paper but you spend a lot of that on planning and grading.
yep, same in the uk. for some reason i know a lot of people in the uk who were teachers. they've all quit and are doing different jobs. none would recommend teaching in the uk. wages are **** too

edit: why is "wank" censored?

edit 2: i guess the better idea would be getting a PGCE and then finding a job abroad


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1559

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #136 on: January 06, 2020, 10:36:08 am »
Looks like there'll be an even bigger shortage of teachers in the UK once Brexit goes ahead. Europeans won't stay around to pay for expensive visas.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-teacher-school-immigration-rights-brexit-recruitment-a9270416.html

Love this comment from an EU teacher. Looks like they can be as much 'racist bigots' as brexiteers  :smiley:

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Just to give you my take on this as an EU citizen living in the UK, who can be classified as highly successful.
My ONLY 2 reasons for being here are the money and the fact that my children can learn to speak English for free.

Everything else is a BIG compromise. Where should I start? That I dread that one day my family has to depend on the NHS? This is worse than the health system they have in Africa. Or the dreadful weather? Or the dreadful houses, where you pay *itloads of money for some small dumps? Or the overcrowding at every corner here in London? Or that most of the neighborhoods start looking as if you are in another continent, and not in Europe? Or the terrible and overpriced transportation? The list goes on...

In my opinion, if people don’t earn VERY well in this country, they should have some very good reason to come here. And instead of paying for that, the British government should pay them to come over.

Anyway, just my two cents.


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 513

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #137 on: January 06, 2020, 10:46:37 am »
I clicked on the link then clicked on a job. Requirements were high. Salary was pathetic.


Lol. I just reviewed the first six job postings (with published salaries) and they all pay at or above US $51k (pro-rata). Are you now going to argue that this median wage you've been touting is, in fact, "pathetic"?

Keep in mind, too, that most people doing this kind of job will be university teachers on paid summer vacations, earning this on top of their regular salaries.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 4995

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #138 on: January 06, 2020, 11:52:12 am »
Universities forbid outside work, no?

First / only link I clicked on: https://www.baleap.org/jobs/pre-sessional-teacher-3

698.70 pounds a week. That’s $914 a week. Big salary for a masters degree holder? Not really.  $47.5k a year. Which for the teaching English industry is good... but Americans who lack the EU passport most likely wouldn’t be hired.


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 513

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Minimum wage is too high! It will destroy the struggling ESL industry here
« Reply #139 on: January 06, 2020, 12:21:57 pm »
Quote
Universities forbid outside work, no?

Mine allows it, so long as you notify them about it. In any case, these jobs aren't exclusive to people working in Korea.

Quote
First / only link I clicked on: https://www.baleap.org/jobs/pre-sessional-teacher-3

698.70 pounds a week. That’s $914 a week. Big salary for a masters degree holder? Not really.  $47.5k a year.

You forgot the 12% holiday pay which takes the salary up to 781 pounds (x52 = 40612). At today's exchange rate that's $53, 128 per year. Pathetic?

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Which for the teaching English industry is good... but Americans who lack the EU passport most likely wouldn’t be hired.

True, but that's a reflection of UK immigration policy, not a lack of opportunities for British people working in ESL to make decent money.

Look, I have no objection to recommending that people stuck in hagwonland or public schools shift gears and retrain in something more lucrative. And yeah, if you want to invest time and money in becoming an engineer or software developer, the eventual payoff will be greater.  All I'm trying to say is that if you take ESL as a career seriously, you get the qualifications you need and work hard to improve your situation, the financial outlook is not that bleak.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 12:38:51 pm by fka »