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  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4105

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #140 on: December 25, 2019, 05:13:51 am »

Iím not going to claim every IB/AP/A-Level teaching position in China doesnít require a Masters in the subject, or a degree in education, or a teaching license, or necessary experience, or a combination of any or all of these...but a lot of the job ads Iíve been seeing for this level requires at least two of these.

Ukrainians are getting paid 1-1.5mil per month to teach English in China...in some cases 2mil and higher. Meanwhile, korean schools, universities and hagwons are proud to still be offering 2.2 before tax while demanding you be a native speaker and have a degree, and in some cases a Masterís and/or a CELTA...while still offering 2.2.

Like I said...at some point, korea has to stop making sense economically.

Iím going to give a quick update on my experience applying to jobs in China so far.

Even though Iím not looking for ESL jobs, Iíve been offered ESL positions that pay 15-25k RMB per month with free housing and utilities. That equates to 2.5-4mil KRW before tax (which from what Iíve been told is 20-25%). You get all the other perks korea offers (insurance, flights etc)...but most contracts in China are for 10 months, meaning you either get partial or no pay in the final 2 months of your 12 months in China, this depends on the school as some schools offer full pay for this period.

Regarding my preferred teaching position (science), the jobs and pay scale are completely all over the place. Offers range from 15-35k after tax (very important), with all the usual benefits. Thatís 2.5-6.0mil KRW with zero expenditures beyond food, water and mobile.

At the high end of the pay scale are the fully accredited international schools that offer world class insurance (that you can anywhere in the world, even back in your home country) and stupidly generous paid vacation...think 2-4 months. Needless to say these schools are often selective with who they hire (education specialists, licensed teachers, experience in international schools or schools with formal programs back home). Contracts state max 22-25 teaching hours depending on the school. I interviewed with one such school 2-3 weeks back, havenít heard from them yet so Iíll take it as I wasnít successful. Itís a shame because their salary was USD60k per year (half paid in USD, the other half in RMB).

At the lower end of the scale, you have regular Chinese public schools. Salary ranges from 15-20k RMB before tax (2.5-3.3mil KRW). Usually 20-22 teaching hours per week and the usual benefits...though these tend to do the 10 month contracts. 30-35 students per class (intíl schools cap at 25).

Between intíl schools and public schools are private schools. This is where you see the most variation in salaries because what youíll earn depends on the school and your ability to negotiate. Everything is negotiable, even the holiday pay, so donít be afraid to put it all on the table. Iíve read about schools where some foreign teachers earn much more than their other foreign colleagues (in some cases double), because of their negotiation skills. Salaries here range from 20-25k RMB (3.3-4.1mil KRW) before tax, but you can try to negotiate those figures into after tax. Again with free accommodation and utilities.

So far Iíve received 4 offers from public and private schools, even one in Inner Mongolia, which Iím sure would be lovely to visit...but not a place I want to spend at least a year in. Iím not in a rush to make a decision as Iím not planning to move till fall 2020...but from what the schools and recruiters have told me, the big recruiting drive for fall 2020 kicks off around April/May.

I hope this was helpful to those who are becoming disillusioned with salaries in korea.

Have a very Merry Christmas folks!


Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #141 on: December 25, 2019, 12:58:35 pm »

Iím not going to claim every IB/AP/A-Level teaching position in China doesnít require a Masters in the subject, or a degree in education, or a teaching license, or necessary experience, or a combination of any or all of these...but a lot of the job ads Iíve been seeing for this level requires at least two of these.

Ukrainians are getting paid 1-1.5mil per month to teach English in China...in some cases 2mil and higher. Meanwhile, korean schools, universities and hagwons are proud to still be offering 2.2 before tax while demanding you be a native speaker and have a degree, and in some cases a Masterís and/or a CELTA...while still offering 2.2.

Like I said...at some point, korea has to stop making sense economically.

Iím going to give a quick update on my experience applying to jobs in China so far.

Even though Iím not looking for ESL jobs, Iíve been offered ESL positions that pay 15-25k RMB per month with free housing and utilities. That equates to 2.5-4mil KRW before tax (which from what Iíve been told is 20-25%). You get all the other perks korea offers (insurance, flights etc)...but most contracts in China are for 10 months, meaning you either get partial or no pay in the final 2 months of your 12 months in China, this depends on the school as some schools offer full pay for this period.

Regarding my preferred teaching position (science), the jobs and pay scale are completely all over the place. Offers range from 15-35k after tax (very important), with all the usual benefits. Thatís 2.5-6.0mil KRW with zero expenditures beyond food, water and mobile.

At the high end of the pay scale are the fully accredited international schools that offer world class insurance (that you can anywhere in the world, even back in your home country) and stupidly generous paid vacation...think 2-4 months. Needless to say these schools are often selective with who they hire (education specialists, licensed teachers, experience in international schools or schools with formal programs back home). Contracts state max 22-25 teaching hours depending on the school. I interviewed with one such school 2-3 weeks back, havenít heard from them yet so Iíll take it as I wasnít successful. Itís a shame because their salary was USD60k per year (half paid in USD, the other half in RMB).

At the lower end of the scale, you have regular Chinese public schools. Salary ranges from 15-20k RMB before tax (2.5-3.3mil KRW). Usually 20-22 teaching hours per week and the usual benefits...though these tend to do the 10 month contracts. 30-35 students per class (intíl schools cap at 25).

Between intíl schools and public schools are private schools. This is where you see the most variation in salaries because what youíll earn depends on the school and your ability to negotiate. Everything is negotiable, even the holiday pay, so donít be afraid to put it all on the table. Iíve read about schools where some foreign teachers earn much more than their other foreign colleagues (in some cases double), because of their negotiation skills. Salaries here range from 20-25k RMB (3.3-4.1mil KRW) before tax, but you can try to negotiate those figures into after tax. Again with free accommodation and utilities.

So far Iíve received 4 offers from public and private schools, even one in Inner Mongolia, which Iím sure would be lovely to visit...but not a place I want to spend at least a year in. Iím not in a rush to make a decision as Iím not planning to move till fall 2020...but from what the schools and recruiters have told me, the big recruiting drive for fall 2020 kicks off around April/May.

I hope this was helpful to those who are becoming disillusioned with salaries in korea.

Have a very Merry Christmas folks!
https://youtu.be/ed4ryYokLzU

Does anyone really want to live in a police state, though?


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4105

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #142 on: December 25, 2019, 01:40:47 pm »
Thanks...when I too start feeling the same way, I’m sure I’d pack up and leave, just like I’m doing here in korea.

But until then, here’s to wages that don’t suck ass, multi year contracts and cheap living.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 01:44:36 pm by waygo0k »


  • hangook77
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1375

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #143 on: December 26, 2019, 08:32:49 am »

Iím not going to claim every IB/AP/A-Level teaching position in China doesnít require a Masters in the subject, or a degree in education, or a teaching license, or necessary experience, or a combination of any or all of these...but a lot of the job ads Iíve been seeing for this level requires at least two of these.

Ukrainians are getting paid 1-1.5mil per month to teach English in China...in some cases 2mil and higher. Meanwhile, korean schools, universities and hagwons are proud to still be offering 2.2 before tax while demanding you be a native speaker and have a degree, and in some cases a Masterís and/or a CELTA...while still offering 2.2.

Like I said...at some point, korea has to stop making sense economically.

Iím going to give a quick update on my experience applying to jobs in China so far.

Even though Iím not looking for ESL jobs, Iíve been offered ESL positions that pay 15-25k RMB per month with free housing and utilities. That equates to 2.5-4mil KRW before tax (which from what Iíve been told is 20-25%). You get all the other perks korea offers (insurance, flights etc)...but most contracts in China are for 10 months, meaning you either get partial or no pay in the final 2 months of your 12 months in China, this depends on the school as some schools offer full pay for this period.

Regarding my preferred teaching position (science), the jobs and pay scale are completely all over the place. Offers range from 15-35k after tax (very important), with all the usual benefits. Thatís 2.5-6.0mil KRW with zero expenditures beyond food, water and mobile.

At the high end of the pay scale are the fully accredited international schools that offer world class insurance (that you can anywhere in the world, even back in your home country) and stupidly generous paid vacation...think 2-4 months. Needless to say these schools are often selective with who they hire (education specialists, licensed teachers, experience in international schools or schools with formal programs back home). Contracts state max 22-25 teaching hours depending on the school. I interviewed with one such school 2-3 weeks back, havenít heard from them yet so Iíll take it as I wasnít successful. Itís a shame because their salary was USD60k per year (half paid in USD, the other half in RMB).

At the lower end of the scale, you have regular Chinese public schools. Salary ranges from 15-20k RMB before tax (2.5-3.3mil KRW). Usually 20-22 teaching hours per week and the usual benefits...though these tend to do the 10 month contracts. 30-35 students per class (intíl schools cap at 25).

Between intíl schools and public schools are private schools. This is where you see the most variation in salaries because what youíll earn depends on the school and your ability to negotiate. Everything is negotiable, even the holiday pay, so donít be afraid to put it all on the table. Iíve read about schools where some foreign teachers earn much more than their other foreign colleagues (in some cases double), because of their negotiation skills. Salaries here range from 20-25k RMB (3.3-4.1mil KRW) before tax, but you can try to negotiate those figures into after tax. Again with free accommodation and utilities.

So far Iíve received 4 offers from public and private schools, even one in Inner Mongolia, which Iím sure would be lovely to visit...but not a place I want to spend at least a year in. Iím not in a rush to make a decision as Iím not planning to move till fall 2020...but from what the schools and recruiters have told me, the big recruiting drive for fall 2020 kicks off around April/May.

I hope this was helpful to those who are becoming disillusioned with salaries in korea.

Have a very Merry Christmas folks!

I have a couple of friends teaching in an international school.  One is a certified teacher and the other isn't.  Both did some time in EPIK for a few years.  Teacher went first then got his friend in after he was non renewed (for a dumb spiteful reason by a contract teacher).  He makes some good dough.  A lot of schools not that picky in China.  (My friend did have to learn to work harder though.) 

That said, a lot of public school ads now over 20,000 rmb.  (Many no desk warming, free accommodation,   vacation partially paid if you renew I think.  But lots of down time.  School years run Sept to June just like the west with a bit of a break around Chinese New Year which is longer than Korea.  Had a friend who did a gig in the countryside.  Contract up to 25 hours.  Many places teaching 8 to 10 classes a week.  My friend had that gig too then he married his translator and they loaded him up because they knew he wouldn't leave.  (He eventually did.)

Longer vacation than EPIK and still works out to more money.  But if its money you seek, an international school or another school (that often overlooks qualifications) can be had.  Still, a school paying full salary 10 months and partial 2 months still works out to more than some lower paid public school positions (low 2's) or lower paying hakwons (low 2's) and more vacation.  I'd consider it myself if I weren't a 1+ with multiple school allowances, bonus, some extra teaching, etc.  If I lost this job and got offered another at less than 2.7 or 2.8 (still a paycut), I'd be gone. 


Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #144 on: December 26, 2019, 09:28:27 am »
I have a similar story.

About three years ago, my university informed us they would cut salaries and downsize, so I started looking for other jobs and Korea had very little upwards growth most of the jobs I found offered aroud 3 million for my Masters and experience.

So I fired off resumes to international schools in China, they all jumped and made me offers around 5-6 million won range plus housing expenditures, some offered half rmb half $. It was very attractive and I had decided to move, I accepted one job after negotiating a higher salary and talking to other teachers who had worked at the school.

Literally that week I got my TOPIK score results back, went to immigration and received the F2-99 visa.

So ended, my Chinese career. I ended up staying in Korea here I am 3 years later making the same salary as 3 years ago but significantly more because of private lessons. China is still very tempting but now I'm trying to get permanent residence here in Korea even though this is very much so a sinking ship, I feel there's loads of opportunities with an F-visa, not so much with the constricting E-2.

T.C.


  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 989

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #145 on: December 26, 2019, 01:38:03 pm »
How much money did you have to have saved up for that F visa?

I had a birdie chirp in my ear,  informing me that immigration does NOT want to be issuing F visas and and schools don't exactly like having foreigners having employment mobility.  I was also told that seeing these falling wages and benefits, has been implemented to phase out having foreign English teachers on F visas.  Finishing a contract or two is one requirement for that F visa, right?  The more folks don't finish contracts, the less F visas will be handed out. 


I cannot confirm the reality of this...but it was chirped about.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 2970

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #146 on: December 26, 2019, 02:11:31 pm »
the fewer F visas, the more work for me ( ͡į ͜ʖ ͡į)


Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #147 on: December 26, 2019, 02:21:27 pm »
Unless you marry a Korean, forget about earning a decent, steadily rising wage long term here. 

Change my mind!


  • Colburnnn
  • Super Waygook

    • 251

    • August 10, 2015, 05:52:37 pm
    • South Korea
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #148 on: December 26, 2019, 02:33:11 pm »
How much money did you have to have saved up for that F visa?

I had a birdie chirp in my ear,  informing me that immigration does NOT want to be issuing F visas and and schools don't exactly like having foreigners having employment mobility.  I was also told that seeing these falling wages and benefits, has been implemented to phase out having foreign English teachers on F visas.  Finishing a contract or two is one requirement for that F visa, right?  The more folks don't finish contracts, the less F visas will be handed out. 


I cannot confirm the reality of this...but it was chirped about.

Which F - Visa are you talking about? As there are multiple categories... The F-6 Visa is granted without question so long as you provide all documentation and meet all financial requirements, for example. There is no 'immigration down want to issue F visas' for this particular series and I would assume the same for others.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4105

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #149 on: December 26, 2019, 02:58:02 pm »
I think he's referring to the F2-99 (long term resident) and/or the F-2-7 (points system). The F2-99 requires you to have substantial savings (20mil in some cases, 40mil and more in others...totally depends on the immigration official). The F-2-7 system gives you higher points the more you earn...safe to say most E-2s will be stuck between 1 and 2 points for the income part.

Immigration IS trying to curb visa holders from these two categories though, as evidenced by the ever changing standards and criteria that only seem to get higher and more restrictive. There was a thread on this site about the most recent change a few months back, which caught a lot of people preparing off guard as they felt the rug had been pulled from under their feet.

F-visas do offer a lot more opportunity in Korea, but with very limited growth compared to China for obvious reasons. If you're on an E-2 with no interest, chance or hope of getting an F visa...better start looking for ways to jump ship. Even with a salary of 2.4mil, the cost of living in 2020 will rise compared to 2019 ans 2018.


Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #150 on: December 26, 2019, 03:50:10 pm »
Waygook is correct I obtained my F2-99 Long Term Resident Visa September 2016. At that time I had a 54 million won Jeonsae in my name TOPIK lvl2 and a monthly income around 3.10 before taxes.

The regulations since then have changed a lot, and I am now married to a Korean, So I have little concern if immigration wants to take my visa, I can just change to the marriage visa anytime. But yeah I definitely feel like immigration is trying to restrict the number of people getting F-visas.

If you can get the F2-99 or F2-7 I really recommend it. The E visa is basically indentured servitude with no chance for upwards movement. With the F visa you have freedom and the right to work and do anything you want. At some point I want to start a hagwon or study room or recruiting agency Iím really not sure but waygooks are so cheap to hire at 2.1million Iím not sure how I could lose money at this point. So why not?

T.C.


Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #151 on: December 27, 2019, 08:39:35 am »
Waygook is correct I obtained my F2-99 Long Term Resident Visa September 2016. At that time I had a 54 million won Jeonsae in my name TOPIK lvl2 and a monthly income around 3.10 before taxes.

The regulations since then have changed a lot, and I am now married to a Korean, So I have little concern if immigration wants to take my visa, I can just change to the marriage visa anytime. But yeah I definitely feel like immigration is trying to restrict the number of people getting F-visas.

If you can get the F2-99 or F2-7 I really recommend it. The E visa is basically indentured servitude with no chance for upwards movement. With the F visa you have freedom and the right to work and do anything you want. At some point I want to start a hagwon or study room or recruiting agency Iím really not sure but waygooks are so cheap to hire at 2.1million Iím not sure how I could lose money at this point. So why not?

T.C.

Kind of an aside, but when I went to renew my F2-99 last year, the immigration official told me that they required a current contract to prove that I was still working in the EFL field. I actually didn't have one, as the new contracts hadn't been sent out yet, so he took my word that I was still working as an English teacher, but still - they seemed to require that you show proof of employment to renew the visa. It was kind of weird.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3908

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #152 on: January 02, 2020, 06:17:17 pm »
Quote
The longer you stay without reaching fluency in the language, the more embarrassing it will be. 

The obvious solution for that (apart from learning Korean)  is just to lie about how long you've been here. I automatically say 6 months every time I'm asked.

ďPlease introduce yourself,Ē my teacher said (in Korean) on the first day of class. When it was my turn, I told everyone (in Korean) my name and that I was American and then said, ďIíve lived in Korea for 5 years.Ē

My teacher interrupted me, ď5 years?Ē she asked, thinking I had made a mistake. ďYes, thatís right,Ē I replied. I looked around and saw the other students looking at me funny.

Then it hit me. Oh shit, I realized, these other people have only recently arrived in Korea and Iíve been here seemingly forever and yet Iím in the same elementary-level class with them. Everyone here, teacher included, thinks Iím a moron.

From that day on I vowed never again to admit to strangers how long Iíve lived in Korea.


https://medium.com/@anders.x.christensen/https-medium-com-whylearningkoreanissohard-559518c94eea?


  • stoat
  • Expert Waygook

    • 652

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #153 on: January 02, 2020, 07:24:11 pm »
I'd be more embarassed about being a teacher here for 5 years and having nothing more than an online TEFL to my name


  • Cohort 2019
  • Super Waygook

    • 307

    • August 17, 2019, 08:09:23 pm
    • 90įS.- 0'E
    more
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #154 on: January 03, 2020, 12:12:07 am »
ESL can easily dull you into that sense of relaxed state of mind...
incumbo studiis


Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #155 on: January 03, 2020, 12:49:16 pm »
Yeah these days I always lie about how long I've lived here because it's too embarrassing otherwise when the next statement is always "Oh you must speak Korean well then".  I would never say something like that just in case the other person doesn't speak Korean well because then I will have embarrassed them.  It's quite a weird back handed compliment isn't it?

I'm stubborn.  Until I decide in my mind that I'm going to settle here (marriage, actually focus on teaching as a career, property?) then there's no way I'm learning the langauge, it's just not happening even if I try lol.

I'd be more embarassed about being a teacher here for 5 years and having nothing more than an online TEFL to my name

What do you mean?


  • stoat
  • Expert Waygook

    • 652

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #156 on: January 03, 2020, 02:07:07 pm »
Quote
I'd be more embarassed about being a teacher here for 5 years and having nothing more than an online TEFL to my name

What do you mean?

I mean if not bothering to learn the local language shows a lack of respect, not bothering to learn how to teach the subject you're being paid to teach shows even less. Would you want yourself or your kids to be taught by someone who had only done an online course that took him a few hours and never even stood in front of a class before? yet the forums are full of potential teachers going on about how much Korean they've been learning while simultaneously asking about the cheapest TEFL course. Seems odd to me. 


Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #157 on: January 03, 2020, 02:40:07 pm »
Quote
I'd be more embarassed about being a teacher here for 5 years and having nothing more than an online TEFL to my name

What do you mean?

I mean if not bothering to learn the local language shows a lack of respect, not bothering to learn how to teach the subject you're being paid to teach shows even less. Would you want yourself or your kids to be taught by someone who had only done an online course that took him a few hours and never even stood in front of a class before? yet the forums are full of potential teachers going on about how much Korean they've been learning while simultaneously asking about the cheapest TEFL course. Seems odd to me. 

Yes that does make sense, I see your point.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3908

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: The exchange rate of suck
« Reply #158 on: January 04, 2020, 07:09:48 am »
At some point korea has to stop making sense financially to those of us who remain here. For me, that point has come.

Don't leave, waygo0k; we'll miss you! Can I convince you to stay with this? Please reconsider.
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ___________________ ______

Language Institute at Gangneung-Wonju National University, located in Gangneung, is looking for a promising English instructor.

[Job Description]-

Position: Full-time

1. Salary

B.A.degree: 1.9 million won per month before tax

M.A.degree: 2.0 million won per month before tax

2. Work Hours: Minimum 18 hours per week

3. Classes: English Conversation with Kindergarten and Elementary school students and adults

4. Students range: Kindergarten and Elementary School students, Adults

5. Other Duties: Active participation, interest and involvement in curricular and extracurricular activities, testing, grading, evaluation of Students and events held by the Language Institute.

6. Benefits:

- One-way airfare is provided for overseas applicant.

- Housing: Single housing on campus

(Except maintenance & utility fee. It will be deducted from your salary every month)

- 4 weeks paid vacation: Fully paid summer and winter vacations

(two weeks each).