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  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1364

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1730

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2019, 08:03:03 am »
OP, please add some kind of comment on the article so that we know where you want the discussion to go.
   Just posting a link by itself is lazy and runs the risk of having the thread deleted.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 4427

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 05:15:44 am »
The carping connies hate the NYTimes because they don't have a vocabulary high enough to read and understand it. 

The current Times' failings are due to its efforts to be objective that  have led to misleading reporting.  And lately it has been acting more as a guardian of he establishment rather than as a check. Its attacks on Elizabeth Warren fall under this category.


  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1364

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 07:03:47 am »
OP, please add some kind of comment on the article so that we know where you want the discussion to go.
   Just posting a link by itself is lazy and runs the risk of having the thread deleted.

My bad...


"It is thus painful for me to watch the fall of a once-worthy institution. At one time, it had some claim to be the United Statesí paper of record because of its objective reporting and the absence of a persistent agenda in determining what news was fit to print. A sensible center-left perspective generally drove its editorials. These were not my views then or now, but the paper offered a useful challenge to my enduringly classical liberal perspective."


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1983

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 07:18:47 am »
The papers on the left have gone the same way in the UK. The Guardian and Independent are now just propaganda about the end of the world or obscure identity politics stories. E.g. Black man in America gets arrested for eating on a train platform. What's this doing in a UK newspaper?


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4360

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 07:33:57 am »
Meanwhile, the papers on the right are virtuous and true.

They certainly donít engage in conspiracy theories, racism, xenophobia, fabricated news and other sorts of deplorable behaviour.


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1983

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2019, 07:47:01 am »
Meanwhile, the papers on the right are virtuous and true.

They certainly donít engage in conspiracy theories, racism, xenophobia, fabricated news and other sorts of deplorable behaviour.

You forgot misogyny,  transphobia and Islamaphobia.


  • fka
  • Expert Waygook

    • 742

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2019, 08:01:15 am »
The papers on the left have gone the same way in the UK. The Guardian and Independent are now just propaganda about the end of the world or obscure identity politics stories. E.g. Black man in America gets arrested for eating on a train platform. What's this doing in a UK newspaper?

If you access the Guardian from outside the UK (without a VPN) it defaults to international news. In the UK, your IP address would return the domestic edition. The Guardian tentatively set up shop in the US around 2005 and expanded more aggressively a few years later, so it now has large operations in New York and LA (as well as Sydney). It has some 300,000 paying "supporters" (their term) in the US and about a third of its revenue comes from the US.


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1983

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 08:19:37 am »
Ah yeah, I just googled Guardian now and you can get Global news, US news or UK news Guardian.  So I guess a black guy getting arrested for eating on a train platform counts as 'global news.' Of world importance.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 08:22:16 am by stoat »


  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1364

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 08:47:30 am »
Meanwhile, the papers on the right are virtuous and true.

They certainly donít engage in conspiracy theories, racism, xenophobia, fabricated news and other sorts of deplorable behaviour.

...spoken like a good, programed robot.  Well done:)


  • Kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1730

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2019, 09:38:11 am »
"It is thus painful for me to watch the fall of a once-worthy institution. At one time, it had some claim to be the United Statesí paper of record because of its objective reporting and the absence of a persistent agenda in determining what news was fit to print. A sensible center-left perspective generally drove its editorials. These were not my views then or now, but the paper offered a useful challenge to my enduringly classical liberal perspective."

      I agree with this sentiment and am deeply curious as to what the thoughts of other Waygookers are.
     In posting this article, I hope to engage in a polite and intelligent debate so as to sway the beliefs of others, as this is an issue that lies close to my heart and upon which I have strong opinions.

Much better, NorthStar:azn:


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4360

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2019, 09:42:52 am »

...spoken like a good, programed robot.  Well done:)

As opposed to old men crying about everything from millennials, to changing times, to progress. Why can't things just stay the same!


  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1364

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2019, 10:31:31 am »

...spoken like a good, programed robot.  Well done:)

As opposed to old men crying about everything from millennials, to changing times, to progress. Why can't things just stay the same!

Oh, that IS a clever whataboutism......


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1983

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2019, 11:56:56 am »

...spoken like a good, programed robot.  Well done:)

As opposed to old men crying about everything from millennials, to changing times, to progress. Why can't things just stay the same!

Oh, that IS a clever whataboutism......


I think it's more a case of trading insults than Whataboutism


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 4360

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2019, 03:31:14 pm »
Glass house...meet stone.


  • Liechtenstein
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1322

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 03:47:31 pm »

...spoken like a good, programed robot.  Well done:)

As opposed to old men crying about everything from millennials, to changing times, to progress. Why can't things just stay the same!

Why can't they indeed. I couldn't agree more.


Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2019, 04:36:21 pm »
Only idiots read one sides' media and not the other. You have to read both. That doesn't mean the truth is in the middle (although it can be), it's just you can't have blind spots and you have to know what the other side is truly thinking, not just your made up caricature.

I've seen posters reflexively dismiss stuff from NYT or FOXNews simply because of the source, not the content. There's no other way to out this- That is how stupid people think. A non-stupid person looks at the content and evaluates it critically.

Lastly, also notice what is reported and more importantly what isn't reported or emphasized. Often both sides will report the same things but give different editorial emphasis. Both sides will bury key facts in the depths of their stories and sites.

This is why I always rely on MSM/left-wing sources to make my arguments against left-leaners and vice-versa. You have to be able to speak the language of both sides and use their sources. If you can't, the problem is with YOU, not the person you are debating with.


Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2019, 05:25:25 pm »
Ah yeah, I just googled Guardian now and you can get Global news, US news or UK news Guardian.  So I guess a black guy getting arrested for eating on a train platform counts as 'global news.' Of world importance.

It is certainly of importance that it makes the headlines of leftist publications. It shows just how little racism there is in the USA if a story like that makes the news. in 2011 63 million people had at least one contact with the police. That's probably a quarter million contacts per day, at least, as some people have many contacts.

And a man getting stopped for eating where it's illegal to eat is the proof that the USA is as bad as Nazi Germany..

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/pbtss11.pdf

Racism is about the worst set of beliefs a person can hold. Race-baiting, fanning the flames of racial tension in order to advance a narrative or get clicks is just as bad.
Does your wife submit to you?


Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2019, 05:27:34 pm »
The carping connies hate the NYTimes because they don't have a vocabulary high enough to read and understand it. 

The current Times' failings are due to its efforts to be objective that  have led to misleading reporting.  And lately it has been acting more as a guardian of he establishment rather than as a check. Its attacks on Elizabeth Warren fall under this category.

You have never made an argument on this platform that was not replete with logical fallacies. You embarrass yourself.
Does your wife submit to you?


  • stoat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1983

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: McGinnis Gets it Right
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 09:36:50 pm »
Only idiots read one sides' media and not the other. You have to read both. That doesn't mean the truth is in the middle (although it can be), it's just you can't have blind spots and you have to know what the other side is truly thinking, not just your made up caricature.

I've seen posters reflexively dismiss stuff from NYT or FOXNews simply because of the source, not the content. There's no other way to out this- That is how stupid people think. A non-stupid person looks at the content and evaluates it critically.

Lastly, also notice what is reported and more importantly what isn't reported or emphasized. Often both sides will report the same things but give different editorial emphasis. Both sides will bury key facts in the depths of their stories and sites.

This is why I always rely on MSM/left-wing sources to make my arguments against left-leaners and vice-versa. You have to be able to speak the language of both sides and use their sources. If you can't, the problem is with YOU, not the person you are debating with.

There is no real alternative to the left wing online UK newspapers. Unless you want to pay to subscribe to the Telegraph or Spectator, which no one on the left would ever do. Even the Mail would happily run a story about the black guy who got arrested if it thought it could stir up some trouble.  The only place where you might find views such as shanebarry 1986 expressed would be blogs, podcasts or youtube etc.. these days.