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  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1949

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« on: November 12, 2019, 01:05:45 pm »
The 3rd grade class, a few problem students (one being the star of this tale) and every HR teacher are the reasons I hate my Tuesday school.

(backstory)
2 months ago, I separated him from his friend (this kid actually makes an effort) because he WOULD NOT stop talking to him during the lesson. After crying to the HR teacher, The dumb HR teacher asked me to reconsider my actions as he might complain to his mother that I'm picking on him. I compromised and made a deal that if he distracted my lesson again, he would be seated away from everyone else, permanently. All 3 of us agreed.

(main story)
Last week, something happened which I've never experienced in all my years as a teacher. The 5th grade class arrived early and I let them chat for a bit before class started. The boy in question (I've had problems with him since 3rd grade) picked up a plush ball and threw it into face. Needless to say, I blew a damn gasket!

I moved a desk to the corner of the class and as punishment, I instructed him to write out the alphabet 200 times. Whatever he didn't finish was to be finished by next Tuesday (today). Should he not finish he is not allowed in my class, a point I made clear to the spineless HR teacher. Not only did she not give a hint of admonishment to the little piss-ant, she completely took his side "Wow, 200, so many..." I asked her what punishment she would deem appropriate for a student  who threw something at her face. She didn't answer.

Today, the boy strolls into class and hasn't written a single letter since last week. I tell him "goodbye" and close the door. He seems genuinely confused and surprised and it's no wonder, I suspect that my classes are the only place that this kid has ever learned that there are consequences for one's actions and he's still not used to the concept. A few minutes later, the HR teacher comes in. She seems pissed. I suggest we have our conversation outside, the class is filled with students. Nope, she wants to air the dirty laundry in front of everyone.

She asks why I sent him back to his HR class. She obviously forgot my instructions so I reminded her that we all agreed that the repercussions of him not finishing it would be suspension from my class till he did finish. She tells me he'll have it ready by next week and that I MUST let him in my class. I tell her that I never have and never will allow a student into my class who refuses to obey instruction. I remind her that I allowing him to stay would undermine my authority (she doesn't seem to get this). Again, I say, there is absolutely no way he's coming back until he finishes the punishment for his actions. She stares at me, with a look of disdain, then marches off with the boy.

For 5yrs this kid hasn't learned: discipline, the alphabet, how to write in a straight line, how to count past 10 or even hold a f*cking pencil properly. Every HR teacher identifies his problems and simply ignores them, he'll be pushed to the next grade so why care? I've known him since 3rd grade and while I'm not a psychologist, I'm pretty sure he has no mental issues. He's simply a spoilt brat who gets his way thanks to the incompetence of the teachers around him.

Being paid to do a job, but not bothering to guide your students to be better or more knowledgable people? F*ck you! You deserve every bit of misery that's coming.





Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2019, 01:39:21 pm »
You seem upset.


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1580

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2019, 01:44:55 pm »
Another case of an elementary teacher of over-coddling a student (more often than not a male student).

One thing I'd like to point out, avoid using the target language (in a second-language environment) as a punishment. Just will make the student hate the target language more.

Aside from that you're on your own on this. I'm sure others will praise, and criticize you. But do whatever you feel you need to do.


  • Piggydee
  • The Legend

    • 2642

    • October 15, 2013, 07:32:43 am
    • South Korea
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2019, 01:59:18 pm »
Well sorry to disagree with your style OP but 200 times is a little beyond a proper punishment.

However, what I do as my own punishment, that is actually similar to yours is I have the problem student come in during their break time. (After they finished lunch or after school 2:40 or 3 whenever you school allows ) and write till they have 3 mins till they need to get back to their class or leave. 

You waste my time or disrespect me in anyway, I waste your time and show you no respect as well. 

While I agree with your disdain and angry, 200 times seems like a little much and perhaps that's why the HR teacher didn't take you seriously.

But yeah....even after 5 years and my main school myself I don't see myself tolerating this similar behavior for another year, that's why I'm thinking of going to green pastures. 


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1949

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2019, 02:07:32 pm »
Another case of an elementary teacher of over-coddling a student (more often than not a male student).

One thing I'd like to point out, avoid using the target language (in a second-language environment) as a punishment. Just will make the student hate the target language more.

Aside from that you're on your own on this. I'm sure others will praise, and criticize you. But do whatever you feel you need to do.

I considered this. I've tried every approach I could think of, during the 3yrs he was in my class, to encourage him to improve and help him with his weaknesses. I offered to teach him during my lunch hour. I'm not a miracle worker and when you see a kid for one period a week and none of the other teachers, the parents or the kid are interested in playing a role in helping him (I've tried many times), there's not much I can do.

Whether he loves English or hates it isn't my concern, at least for now. Right now, my goal is to teach him that there are consequences for his actions, once he's figured that out, respect will come and from there, who knows? Respect first, English second.


Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2019, 02:13:10 pm »
I'm at the end of my tether too, personally. I've started raising my voice in class over the last week or two, and I must say, I've enjoyed the rapturous silence that ensues. I could do without the looks of utter disbelief, though ('the foreign monkey's allowed to demand our attention with a bellowing voice?!? Not even our parents do that' :huh: :huh: :huh:


  • fka
  • Veteran

    • 148

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2019, 02:17:48 pm »
This is where your cultural blind spots reveal themselves. What you should have done is take a box of overpriced fruit to his parents, acknowledged his unique sensitivity and apologized for disrupting the yin-yang harmony of their perfect Confucian family circle.


  • plan b
  • Super Waygook

    • 271

    • March 22, 2013, 11:53:06 am
    • Korea
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2019, 02:27:27 pm »
OP: For what its worth, you have my support 100%. Many of us (including myself) wish we did the same thing, but the fear of non-renewal is always on the back of our mind. The lack of consequences in elementary schools is utterly criminal, but the saddest thing is not getting the backing of the other teachers. They would rather ignore the monster than deal with him, and you are bringing them more work. They would rather let the kid off and go back to shopping on Gmarket.


Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2019, 02:36:39 pm »
When I was doing an afterschool class at a travel school....the kids were wild and did not care about English at all. The homerooms teachers did not come to class because it was a small school and each homeroom teacher had 2 grades to deal with. All the students were pretty low level, but the 6th grade students were actually ok. The afterschool class was after a long day of 5 other classes and included grades 3-6 together. The 3rd grade students couldn't stay seated. It was a challenge to create lessons for all levels together. Luckily my open class came and parents liked it. Anyway, the school made me sign an additional contract to never discipline the kids....

The students know foreign teachers can't discipline, treat our classes as play time/nap time often, and do not respect...not always the case but if they are taught through the actions and behaviors of coteachers who often undermine and question our abilities, intelligence etc......more often than not those are the results.


  • LIC
  • Super Waygook

    • 468

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2019, 02:38:23 pm »
Hmmmm...the anger is strong in this one.


  • fka
  • Veteran

    • 148

    • September 05, 2019, 06:37:44 pm
    • Seoul
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2019, 02:57:31 pm »
Quote
Anyway, the school made me sign an additional contract to never discipline the kids....

That's insane. What did it actually say? Just curious.


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 2606

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2019, 02:57:54 pm »
Please understand them. They are only children~~~


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4855

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2019, 03:07:14 pm »
I had it up to here with the 6-2 class today. And the worst part is some kid will wrestle another (I know this sounds bad AND IT IS, bet they're in groups in different rooms "practicing" for the Culture Fest next month, it's not just random in the middlke of my lesson), I'll tell them to knock it off, and I'll get that "Geez, what's stuck in your craw?" look.

I can handle misbehaviour, you're young a bit bored, I get it. But don't give me that "Geez, what's your problem. It's only school and I'm supposed to be practicing and all I did was headlock Minjun on the floor and scream at the top of my lungs. Christ."


The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2019, 03:13:48 pm »
This is where your cultural blind spots reveal themselves. What you should have done is take a box of overpriced fruit to his parents, acknowledged his unique sensitivity and apologized for disrupting the yin-yang harmony of their perfect Confucian family circle.
And I'm sure they can respond by taking you a box of ammunition and a giant jug of BBQ sauce, say "Git er done!!!!" and apologize for offending your Southern Honor. Then you can all get down over some BBQ and grits and relax on the porch with the SKS and the shootin' car. Or whatever other dumb stereotype we want to use.

Or you're a Canuck? Insert Tim Hortons and Hockey stereotypes here.

You ever stop to think that YOU might be the problem in all of this, if this is how you're viewing things?


Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2019, 03:18:44 pm »
This is where your cultural blind spots reveal themselves. What you should have done is take a box of overpriced fruit to his parents, acknowledged his unique sensitivity and apologized for disrupting the yin-yang harmony of their perfect Confucian family circle.
And I'm sure they can respond by taking you a box of ammunition and a giant jug of BBQ sauce, say "Git er done!!!!" and apologize for offending your Southern Honor. Then you can all get down over some BBQ and grits and relax on the porch with the SKS and the shootin' car. Or whatever other dumb stereotype we want to use.

Or you're a Canuck? Insert Tim Hortons and Hockey stereotypes here.

You ever stop to think that YOU might be the problem in all of this, if this is how you're viewing things?
Shut up dude


Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2019, 03:24:41 pm »
As for OP, damn yo, dude went the elementary school equivalent of Officer Stacey Koon over a kid flinging a plush ball at him. I'm all for laying down the law and some discipline but 200 times? That's beyond corrective, that's punitive and vindictive.

That being said, it's the Thin Chalkdust Line between anarchy and chaos and teachers have to back up each other. Can't be undercutting Aristocrat's authority like that. HRT needs to back him up.


Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2019, 03:27:39 pm »
This is where your cultural blind spots reveal themselves. What you should have done is take a box of overpriced fruit to his parents, acknowledged his unique sensitivity and apologized for disrupting the yin-yang harmony of their perfect Confucian family circle.
And I'm sure they can respond by taking you a box of ammunition and a giant jug of BBQ sauce, say "Git er done!!!!" and apologize for offending your Southern Honor. Then you can all get down over some BBQ and grits and relax on the porch with the SKS and the shootin' car. Or whatever other dumb stereotype we want to use.

Or you're a Canuck? Insert Tim Hortons and Hockey stereotypes here.

You ever stop to think that YOU might be the problem in all of this, if this is how you're viewing things?
Shut up dude
Whatever. OP might as well have been recommending taking watermelon and fried chicken and a Madea DVD over to an inner city kids' parents to sort this out. That's just dumb ignorance and stereotype.


  • OnNut81
  • Expert Waygook

    • 918

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2019, 03:38:04 pm »
DMartino: Whatever. OP might as well have been recommending taking watermelon and fried chicken and a Madea DVD over to an inner city kids' parents to sort this out. That's just dumb ignorance and stereotype.

Pretty sure that's how it was meant.  As a tongue in cheek stereotype.  However, with the massive chip on your soldier I'm amazed these things actually go over your head. 


Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2019, 03:43:48 pm »
 
Quote
Anyway, the school made me sign an additional contract to never discipline the kids....

That's insane. What did it actually say? Just curious.

It was along the lines of never discipline them in any way, obviously physical was totally off limits, but included things such as written, not allowing them in class, sending them out etc. It also described that the class would be taught alone and what hours etc. It was completely in Korean and I was not given a translation, so I translated it myself.


Re: These people have no right to call themselves teachers
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2019, 03:53:24 pm »
DMartino: Whatever. OP might as well have been recommending taking watermelon and fried chicken and a Madea DVD over to an inner city kids' parents to sort this out. That's just dumb ignorance and stereotype.

Pretty sure that's how it was meant.  As a tongue in cheek stereotype.  However, with the massive chip on your soldier I'm amazed these things actually go over your head. 
And if it was a bunch of Korean teachers giving that kind of advice about how to handle American inner city kids, how would you read that? Just a tongue in cheek stereotype or something a little more ignorant and disrespectful?

Like if dude had mixed it up with stereotypes about himself that would have been different. This? Nope.

Like we have a Teaching for First Nations thread on here about problem students. No one's on there like "Send smoke signal and bring over beads and buffalo meat. Smoke em peace pipe with parents and apologize for stealing land."
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 03:58:20 pm by Mr.DeMartino »