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  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2874

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2019, 08:59:14 am »
Most keto diets contain plenty of vegetables as their actual net carbs, (as fiber is not counted as carbs due the way our bodies digest it) are very low. I eat tons of greens. Basically unlimited. Same thing for peppers. Potatoes are really the only thing you have to be careful with.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2019, 10:08:14 am »
Aristocrat, I'm sorry man but you do not have any idea what you are talking about here. Carbs are not essential. It is the only macro nutrient that is non essential. Protein and fats are essential to consume but not carbs. You also make no sense. How does not eating carbs cause diabetes? You aren't even making enough sense to warrant a dignified response to such nonsense. Not eating carbs and sugar is going to cause diabetes? That makes no sense. It will lower his insulin levels and make him more insulin sensitive. It can actually help reverse diabetes. Complete nonsense post.

Every vegetable is a carb, so is every fruit. You're telling me it's a good idea to go through life not eating a single fruit or vegetable?

A diet devoid of fibre will increase the risk of diabetes (I never said cause) and fibre is, guess what... a carb.

Those are NET carbs, not total carbs. Anyone who has done keto for more than a few months would know this basic concept. These things are very basic. You sound like you are following nutrition advice from a 1980's food pyramid chart. About 1:50 of this mark should clear things up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZX37cbaUtE

Honestly man I'm not trying to rag on you but you are spouting stuff that has been debunked 20 and 30 years ago. I'm done debating with you on this. Peace.


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2019, 10:12:06 am »
Most keto diets contain plenty of vegetables as their actual net carbs, (as fiber is not counted as carbs due the way our bodies digest it) are very low. I eat tons of greens. Basically unlimited. Same thing for peppers. Potatoes are really the only thing you have to be careful with.

Exactly right. There is nothing wrong with veggies on keto because they are net carbs and not total carbs. We seem to be on the same page there.


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2019, 10:17:46 am »
Yeah, a lot of veggies, green leafy ones at that, are great for KETO and fiber. Chard is an easy one to find here which is also high in fiber. For fiber needs you can also consider Oragnic Golden Flax Seed Meal - Fat7g, chol.0mg, Carbs6g, Dietary Fiber6g (so net carbs are 0), protein3g, calories100, some calcium and iron. It makes a pretty good filler. It is bland, but I kind of like it.

Avocado is a great place to get your fats and good ones at that, and your Omegas. You can buy the simplus brand of frozen avocados for 5,990won for 500 grams (they taste great), or if you have a Kim's Club they are 4,990.


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2019, 10:46:17 am »
i think the main problem with keto is that most people have a really hard time staying on keto. it's fine and it's not gonna kill you or whatever, but it's also probably not some super diet that's gonna work any magic for you


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1949

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2019, 11:52:31 am »
Aristocrat, I'm sorry man but you do not have any idea what you are talking about here. Carbs are not essential. It is the only macro nutrient that is non essential. Protein and fats are essential to consume but not carbs. You also make no sense. How does not eating carbs cause diabetes? You aren't even making enough sense to warrant a dignified response to such nonsense. Not eating carbs and sugar is going to cause diabetes? That makes no sense. It will lower his insulin levels and make him more insulin sensitive. It can actually help reverse diabetes. Complete nonsense post.

Every vegetable is a carb, so is every fruit. You're telling me it's a good idea to go through life not eating a single fruit or vegetable?

A diet devoid of fibre will increase the risk of diabetes (I never said cause) and fibre is, guess what... a carb.
[/quote]

Those are NET carbs, not total carbs. Anyone who has done keto for more than a few months would know this basic concept. These things are very basic. You sound like you are following nutrition advice from a 1980's food pyramid chart. About 1:50 of this mark should clear things up.
Honestly man I'm not trying to rag on you but you are spouting stuff that has been debunked 20 and 30 years ago. I'm done debating with you on this. Peace.

Net carb, as I've just learned, is a term coined by the KETO crowed, it's not a medically recognized term so don't blow a gasket if I've never heard of your buzzword. The day a fibre doesn't contain a carbon, hydrogen or oxygen atom is the day I'll stop calling it a carb.

The fact that I don't know the ins and outs of your cute, little fad diet doesn't diminish what I've learned and found to work about nutrition over the years. Starch carbs aren't essential in the same way that shoes aren't essential, you could go through life without them, but you'll end up becoming pretty militant and intolerant to compensate for how miserable you're going to feel.
I tried maintaining my training routine of gym and track sprinting while almost completely cutting out starch carbs, for a month. What happened? I picked up 2 injuries, got sick and felt absolutely miserable.

You've illustrated EXACTLY what I can't stand about fad diets; they all assume they've discovered some secret formula and some people who follow them can't tolerate views other than their own. The Mayans and Incas pretty much lived off nothing but starch carbs and they turned out just fine.

The best eating plan is understanding what each macro and micro-nutrient does and adjusting your intake based on your needs, end of story.


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2874

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2019, 12:12:41 pm »

Net carb, as I've just learned, is a term coined by the KETO crowed, it's not a medically recognized term so don't blow a gasket if I've never heard of your buzzword. The day a fibre doesn't contain a carbon, hydrogen or oxygen atom is the day I'll stop calling it a carb.

"Net carbs" is absolutely a recognized term in food and nutrition science. I've heard doctors and nutritionists use it. No one said fiber doesn't contain carbs. It was simply stated that fiber isn't digested in the same was as other carbs and so can be eaten freely without worrying how it might effect your macros or blood sugar. You'll notice on the nutrition panel of foods nowadays net carbs is listed under total carbs. It's a pretty widely accepted term and is not a marketing gimmick or "buzzword".

You really have a way about you, don't you? Is there any topic, any topic at all, that you don't think you know absolutely everything about and put down anyone who disagrees with you? Music, fashion, exercise, skin care routines, now apparently nutrition. Is it really that surprising that in a thread called "Anyone tried keto?" people are talking about it and offering advice? It's not it invaded a thread about food in Korea or anyone here is saying all other diets are shit. Take it easy mate. You don't have to be right about everything all the time.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1949

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2019, 01:13:32 pm »

Net carb, as I've just learned, is a term coined by the KETO crowed, it's not a medically recognized term so don't blow a gasket if I've never heard of your buzzword. The day a fibre doesn't contain a carbon, hydrogen or oxygen atom is the day I'll stop calling it a carb.

"Net carbs" is absolutely a recognized term in food and nutrition science. I've heard doctors and nutritionists use it. No one said fiber doesn't contain carbs. It was simply stated that fiber isn't digested in the same was as other carbs and so can be eaten freely without worrying how it might effect your macros or blood sugar. You'll notice on the nutrition panel of foods nowadays net carbs is listed under total carbs. It's a pretty widely accepted term and is not a marketing gimmick or "buzzword".

You really have a way about you, don't you? Is there any topic, any topic at all, that you don't think you know absolutely everything about and put down anyone who disagrees with you? Music, fashion, exercise, skin care routines, now apparently nutrition. Is it really that surprising that in a thread called "Anyone tried keto?" people are talking about it and offering advice? It's not it invaded a thread about food in Korea or anyone here is saying all other diets are shit. Take it easy mate. You don't have to be right about everything all the time.

It seems to have become a conventional term, I've never used or encountered 'net carbs' as it simply wasn't necessary. One of the very first things I understood about nutrition was the use of each type of carb and that more fibre, less starch and sugar, was the way to go if you wanted to lose fat as fibre isn't absorbed. There was simply no need for me to assign a different word to carbs which the body absorbs.

When someone said carbs aren't essential, someone like me takes that to mean... well... carbon, hydrogen and oxygen based macros. So... a diet without vegetables. Ridiculous, right? That user, I forgot his name, misunderstood me and didn't read what I wrote properly... neither did you.

Among my faults, being opinionated and stubborn are things I've always struggled with, I'll admit that. I have my interests, music, (nutrition and training fall under the same umbrella) and personal style (clothing and appearance); I'd hardly call myself a renaissance man for having a grand total of 3 major interests. I had/have absolutely no problem with anyone disagreeing with my opinion, but when people start throwing insults, that's when my faults come into play.

I apologise to OP if I derailed his thread, hope you find something that works.


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2874

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2019, 01:22:20 pm »
Fair enough.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2019, 02:59:01 pm »
You have made your point. If the OP wants to eat a balanced diet like you are suggesting he can do that as well.  But you have come into a keto themed thread and advocating for people to eat carbs.  Go eat your balanced diet if that is what works for you. Your approach is not an unreasonable approach to nutrition. But giving such advice here would be like me going into a vegan thread telling everyone that they should just eat meat. It's cool man. Just do your thing and we will do ours. I don't even eat keto all year because I lose a lot of weight on it and I'm trying to bulk up these days. But the OP has a specific problem and I'm trying to help him. To each his own. And FYI,  Just because I don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean it's a personal attack. Cheers.


  • Aristocrat
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1949

    • November 10, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2019, 05:37:15 pm »
You have made your point. If the OP wants to eat a balanced diet like you are suggesting he can do that as well.  But you have come into a keto themed thread and advocating for people to eat carbs.  Go eat your balanced diet if that is what works for you. Your approach is not an unreasonable approach to nutrition. But giving such advice here would be like me going into a vegan thread telling everyone that they should just eat meat. It's cool man. Just do your thing and we will do ours. I don't even eat keto all year because I lose a lot of weight on it and I'm trying to bulk up these days. But the OP has a specific problem and I'm trying to help him. To each his own. And FYI,  Just because I don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean it's a personal attack. Cheers.

I think it all came down to a misunderstanding. Either way, I'm not one to hold a grudge, water under the bridge.
Cheers


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1499

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2019, 12:50:21 am »
I posted earlier my strict diet for an entire year in which i lost 100 pounds (45 kg). I am dang proud of that and surprised i haven't had any questions. So here i'll answer a few i expected:

Q:How could you eat so many veggies and be in ketosis?
A: Onions, peppers, mushrooms, greens, garlic i had as much as i wanted cuz of low carbs... carrots, tomatoes and cucumbers i knew i had to limit or else i'd go crazy on.

Q:What food did you miss that year?
A: None. Well, sometimes i missed watermelon in the summer. And i had no alcohol that year other than the occasional restaurant shot of soju, so some social events i pined.

Q:How did you feel being on such a strict dietary plan?
On the one hand, i was surprisingly satisfied with eating pretty much the same things everyday. I woke up craving my brunch salmon because the onions tasted so dang good (body craved the carbs).
On the other hand, playing tennis on Jeju was HARD as my energy level was low... constant and sufficient for teaching and walking but NO BURSTS of energy, so i physically couldn't chase down line drives on the court or drop shots. Ugh.

Q: What mistakes did you make?
I tried to add beans in the 5th month, thinking the fibre would blunt the carbs but thankfully i documented my weight EVERY morning 8am to 9amish before 10-11am brunch, so i learned after a few days that my previously CONSTANT slow weight loss had suddenly stalled and so i quickly nixed those beans and a few days later the weight loss continued.

Q: Weren't you hungry?
A: No, never. I was pleasantly satiated. Salmon, onions, peppers, nuts, a boiled egg, cloves of garlic, sesame seeds, lemon in tea ... these were the highlights of my day. I was surprisingly indifferent to the chicken (boiled single leg) as i was to the mushrooms and greens.

Q: How did your body feel losing 100 pounds?
A: During the process, my shoulders and neck hurt! I felt like my body was eating my shoulders - i clearly lost muscle mass i'd thete since high school football - and my neck was stiff as hell. But my back and ankles were awesome! The mobility, twisty flexibility and desire to jump and move my back and ankles were incredible.

Q: Why did you stop the dietary habits?
A: I reached my goal. I celebrated with pasta despite not missing it. My dietary once a mobth pizza minus crust became a once a week pizza with everything eaten. I started to put on what would be half the weight within a year and it was totally preventable. In hindsight, i could have happily maintained the dietary schedule on weekdays and have a weekend cheat day. That would have been better.

Q:What was hardest about being in ketosis?
A: The constant low energy and bloody having to prep the food for work: i prepared the exact same meals every sunday or monday morning for the workweek mid-schedule hagwon dinner break. The routine was easy to plan, shop for and do except for the tediousness of always prepping. Nowadays i eat lunch out so often because it's so quick and easy and there are so many kinds of korean restaurants for lunch.


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2019, 07:26:20 am »
Q:What was hardest about being in ketosis?
A: The constant low energy and bloody having to prep the food for work: i prepared the exact same meals every sunday or monday morning for the workweek mid-schedule hagwon dinner break. The routine was easy to plan, shop for and do except for the tediousness of always prepping. Nowadays i eat lunch out so often because it's so quick and easy and there are so many kinds of korean restaurants for lunch.

Great tips and all! If you wanted to get back in it at least a little, but don't want prep for lunch, I suggest what I normally eat. Not the best, but I am satisfied with it. I can't remember if you're in Korea any longer, but if you are...
    1. 1/2oz walnuts
    2. two already made 80gram salad packs from Homeplus - 1,000 each
    3. 1-2 Korean style grilled eggs (already made 7,990won for 30 - Homeplus... Could easily just boil a 30 pack of eggs though)
    4. 1 can of tuna or salmon or an already made chicken breast individually packed ( GS mart has them on sale some times for 2+1, so about 2,000 each.. Or Homeplus Express has them on sale some times about the same price... Or some No Brands carry them, same price)... a bit cheaper you can buy a pack of already made chicken breasts (flavored with rosemary and the works) at Emart Traders

As far as the prep thing... You are 100% right, it is a drag. That is why I would rather pay a bit more to get already made tings for lunch. Some of the chicken has some extra sodium, but I need it anyway to help retain some water. Still probably less that eating Korean food though.

Also, congrats on your 100lbs in a year!


  • hangook77
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1306

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2019, 02:25:29 pm »
So, what I am hearing about no energy does worry me a bit.  One person said full hard core 3 months keto starting out with 3 meals and getting to once a day with intermittent fasting (18 hours between meals) and then at a later date being able to work some limited items back in from time to time?  The mct oil will trick your body into thinking it's still in ketosis?  So, can I guess some small carbs a couple of times a week or something like that?  I had told one person I would miss bread and milk, though the almond flour and baking could fix that.  Milk, not sure?  Drink coconut milk mix or something else or heavy cream?  Or just have some a couple of times a week after the intitial ketosis period? 

I do wonder if keeping it as a lifestyle would mean working some non keto items back in occasionally? 


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1499

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2019, 01:06:30 am »
So, can I guess some small carbs a couple of times a week or something like that?  I had told one person I would miss bread and milk, though the almond flour and baking could fix that.
If you want to be in ketosis and get vitamins through your food then get all your carbs from vegetables! (And such fruit as lemons and grapefruit)

Nix all flour and baking products during a keto diet!!


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2019, 12:36:30 pm »
So, what I am hearing about no energy does worry me a bit.  One person said full hard core 3 months keto starting out with 3 meals and getting to once a day with intermittent fasting (18 hours between meals) and then at a later date being able to work some limited items back in from time to time?  The mct oil will trick your body into thinking it's still in ketosis?  So, can I guess some small carbs a couple of times a week or something like that?  I had told one person I would miss bread and milk, though the almond flour and baking could fix that.  Milk, not sure?  Drink coconut milk mix or something else or heavy cream?  Or just have some a couple of times a week after the intitial ketosis period? 

I do wonder if keeping it as a lifestyle would mean working some non keto items back in occasionally? 

Honestly it just depends on what your goals are. The things that I did when I was on keto was for the purpose of getting more lean and cut up. If your goal is primarily athletic performance then I don't think it's bad to have some carbs, but do realize that it could kick you out of ketosis if you overdo it. MCT isn't going to trick your body into doing anything. It's a high fat source that can be rapidly absorbed by your body. It's not some special magical formula. It's just yet another fat source. If you want to have coconut milk or cream that is fine. I would  avoid regular milk though because there is sugar in it. Don't be dogmatic about it. If it's a high fat source and no carbs or sugar then you are good to go. Butter, oils, nuts, cream, fatty meats etc.

The whole point of the keto diet is to keep your insulin levels low. Fat doesn't raise your insulin, protein raises it a bit, and carbs tend to spike it. That's why the diet is so high in fat. When I have a bunch of carbs for energy it feels like my body is running on low octane gas but it gets the job done. When i'm in deep ketosis and I have things that are higher in fats it feels like I'm running on jet fuel. It feels like a cleaner energy burn without the insulin dump. That's really the best way I can describe it.


  • T_Rex
  • Adventurer

    • 66

    • April 23, 2019, 08:10:20 am
Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2019, 03:57:01 am »
When i'm in deep ketosis and I have things that are higher in fats it feels like I'm running on jet fuel. It feels like a cleaner energy burn without the insulin dump. That's really the best way I can describe it.
It sounds like you're in the honeymoon phase. When your blood sugar levels drop really low your adrenals begin pumping your blood full of stress hormones to give you energy. You can get a similar effect from taking amphetamines. Not everything that results in weight loss in the short term is healthy in the long run.

https://180degreehealth.com/the-catecholamine-honeymoon/

Get back to us in six months and tell us if your diet is still working for you.


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2019, 02:35:41 pm »
When i'm in deep ketosis and I have things that are higher in fats it feels like I'm running on jet fuel. It feels like a cleaner energy burn without the insulin dump. That's really the best way I can describe it.
It sounds like you're in the honeymoon phase. When your blood sugar levels drop really low your adrenals begin pumping your blood full of stress hormones to give you energy. You can get a similar effect from taking amphetamines. Not everything that results in weight loss in the short term is healthy in the long run.

https://180degreehealth.com/the-catecholamine-honeymoon/

Get back to us in six months and tell us if your diet is still working for you.

Oh nice, a 10 year old internet article without a single piece of research or studies attached to it. I better discount the half a decade of experience I have had first hand with keto and numerous other doctors and scientific evidence supporting keto eating plans as well..

A low carb approach to eating is not the same as keto. A low carb calorie restricted eating plan  is still going to keep spiking your insulin while leaving you in a calorie deficit. In my opinion the author is correct in that it is a terrible approach, but this approach is certainly not keto. Low carb isn't keto.  " Low carb "  or Atkins style has never worked for me. If I do have carbs I almost always have to be in a calorie surplus because being in a calorie deficit and low carb always makes me feel like crap. I can't get into ketosis because of the insulin dumps and can't even make it through a meal without feeling like a need to take a nap right afterwards. I don't have energy because of the lack of calories and the insulin dumps on top of that. I don't see how anyone can make it through a diet style like that without feeling like crap.

But hey man, to each his own. We can go back and forth about everything diet related. Even simple things such as coffee and red wine you can find studies that contradict each other. At the end of the day I'm a big supporter of keto because I have had several years of positive benefits from it and know numerous other people that have had success as well. To each his own. Cheers.


Re: Anyone try to get on KETO here?
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2019, 11:20:02 am »
Anyone try to get on the KETO diet here?

The easiest way is just do nothingódon't eat.

It's a metabolic mode we evolved for environmental circumstances where there is a lack of food or carbohydrates. Over the last three million years that clearly happened fairly regularly in hunter/gatherer life, or we wouldn't have this adaptation. For example, it's needed when you fast for a day, then get hungry and go hunting (gnawing on some dried meat on your trip) but find yourself not having much luck. So you could easily end up not killing your next ibex for 4+ days, and ketosis is what keeps you going and alert during that period. Or in winter when there are not many plant foods. It doesn't seem like a state that was designed for long-term; a few days to a week for hunting, or maybe a whole winter.

I've been in ketosis for a week now, and experience what others often reportómore energy, need less sleep, more alert. Which makes sense when you understand the purpose of the adaption.