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  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1152

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« on: November 05, 2019, 12:33:28 am »

I've seen this scenario so often I can't count.

You will have a spoiled boy ruining every class he steps foot in with his aggressive and attention-seeking behavior.

The boy ignores the teacher, throws things around, harrases and bullies other students, never does homework, Barges noisily into class late every time, and generally acts as if the world revolves around him. The school never disciplines him, nor his parents. In fact while he disrupts the education of everyone else, the Korean teachers constantly coo and fuss over him, saying how "cute" he is. The hard-working students get mostly ignored while the little energy vampire forces the teachers attention onto him constantly via screaming, yelling and all kinds of misbehavior.

A male teacher will generally not tolerate misbehaviour from a boy. But apparently women have such a thing for bad boys, be they 7 years old or 27.


My question is, why are Koreans so oblivious to the fact that they are creating a monster in the way they view and 'raise" children?
Catch my drift?


Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2019, 06:39:58 am »
Soooo.... you got loads of rewards from your female teachers?  Just guessing....


  • hangook77
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1306

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan


  • stoat
  • Super Waygook

    • 423

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2019, 08:36:35 am »

I've seen this scenario so often I can't count.

You will have a spoiled boy ruining every class he steps foot in with his aggressive and attention-seeking behavior.

The boy ignores the teacher, throws things around, harrases and bullies other students, never does homework, Barges noisily into class late every time, and generally acts as if the world revolves around him. The school never disciplines him, nor his parents. In fact while he disrupts the education of everyone else, the Korean teachers constantly coo and fuss over him, saying how "cute" he is. The hard-working students get mostly ignored while the little energy vampire forces the teachers attention onto him constantly via screaming, yelling and all kinds of misbehavior.

A male teacher will generally not tolerate misbehaviour from a boy. But apparently women have such a thing for bad boys, be they 7 years old or 27.


My question is, why are Koreans so oblivious to the fact that they are creating a monster in the way they view and 'raise" children?

Apparently the trend in the West is for female elementary school teachers to clamp down harder on male students for their boisterous behavior in an attempt to rein in their toxic masculinity. Seems like that way of thinking hasn't reached here yet.


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1647

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2019, 08:57:37 am »
They are afraid to hurt their confidence, so Iíve been told.

Basically ensuring the kid grows up unaware of his own behavior and how it impacts his future relationships, professionally and personally.

Itís a remnant of Confucius.


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4859

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
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Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2019, 09:40:04 am »
Children need to feel shame in a group.

And I don't mean publicly flogging and humiliating them in front of the class for kicks, but they need to be told, in public, what you are doing is shameful. You're not the centre of the world, there are others here, and it's time to STFU.

The joys of fauxtherhood


  • hangook77
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1306

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2019, 10:32:45 am »

I've seen this scenario so often I can't count.

You will have a spoiled boy ruining every class he steps foot in with his aggressive and attention-seeking behavior.

The boy ignores the teacher, throws things around, harrases and bullies other students, never does homework, Barges noisily into class late every time, and generally acts as if the world revolves around him. The school never disciplines him, nor his parents. In fact while he disrupts the education of everyone else, the Korean teachers constantly coo and fuss over him, saying how "cute" he is. The hard-working students get mostly ignored while the little energy vampire forces the teachers attention onto him constantly via screaming, yelling and all kinds of misbehavior.

A male teacher will generally not tolerate misbehaviour from a boy. But apparently women have such a thing for bad boys, be they 7 years old or 27.


My question is, why are Koreans so oblivious to the fact that they are creating a monster in the way they view and 'raise" children?

Apparently the trend in the West is for female elementary school teachers to clamp down harder on male students for their boisterous behavior in an attempt to rein in their toxic masculinity. Seems like that way of thinking hasn't reached here yet.

Toxic masculinity?  Kids and boy students being rambunctious is normal.  Just as long as they aren't being too entitled or refusing to settle down when it's time to settle down, is fine.  What exactly is toxic?  Will the school become toxic and everyone will die like living in Chernobyl?  While, no one likes too much of a macho asshole, making men too feminine is also a problem.  Women are already asking "where all the men have gone".  Give it a generation.  They won't like their own kind anymore.  They'll love the cultures where men are still masculine.  (Maybe that's the plan?) 


Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2019, 10:46:23 am »
They are afraid to hurt their confidence, so Iíve been told.

Basically ensuring the kid grows up unaware of his own behavior and how it impacts his future relationships, professionally and personally.

Itís a remnant of Confucius.

This.

A lot of female teachers are also specifically instructed (ordered) to be "maternal" towards male students, the logic being for this reason, even if the female teachers don't agree with it. It's kind of forced in a lot of schools.

There are other reasons for it, though.


  • Datasapien
  • Super Waygook

    • 445

    • February 04, 2012, 09:36:25 pm
    • Chungcheongbuk-do
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Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2019, 10:46:54 am »
Had a male co-teacher a few years back who used to go and massage the troublesome students and joke around with them while I was trying to teach so I don't think (=know) it's not just a female teacher thing.
"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man." - Jebediah Springfield.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3632

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2019, 11:31:53 am »
My guess is overly lax / coddling teachers are afraid of getting a bad student evaluation / afraid of a complaint from a student's mother. That's why they give out candy, show Kpop videos, etc. It's pandering in attempt to get in the students' good graces.


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1580

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2019, 11:58:38 am »
My guess is overly lax / coddling teachers are afraid of getting a bad student evaluation / afraid of a complaint from a student's mother. That's why they give out candy, show Kpop videos, etc. It's pandering in attempt to get in the students' good graces.
In theory tenure balances that fear out. Anyways, I did a few years in an elementary, and that was one thing that drove me nuts. Mostly it was the female teachers coddling the punk boys. The few males in elementary were mostly pretty strict from what I've seen. But there aren't many men teaching in the elementary system these days. Then when these spoiled boys go to middle school in the first few weeks when they are actually disciplined they are kind of in shock.


  • gagevt
  • Moderator - LVL 3

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    • August 24, 2013, 01:55:38 pm
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Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2019, 02:36:10 pm »
I must be super lucky as I currently have a young female co-teacher that does not put up with that ish. We currently have several troublesome boys across 5th and third grade. One is basically written off as a lost cause at this point by most teachers in the school. The others are constantly reeled in between her and I. She does most of the leg work in third grade. We split leading classes 50/50 so when one of us is leading, the other typically tries to keep order. The leading teacher also manages the classroom. I don't think I've ever had a co-teacher that coddles troublesome students thankfully. Anyone else have a massive proportional difference in bad behavior between male and female students? In my case, my male students cause 70-80% of issues in the classroom. I don't mean cases of daydreaming or not focusing (that number is much closer to even, though still skewed towards the males). I mean cases of blatant disruption. I've only ever taught at co-ed schools, and I can only imagine what it's like at an all boys or an all girls school. Of course a plethora of other factors could be at play, but I'd imagine on average the girls school would be much easier for classroom management.
"The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword."


Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2019, 03:31:16 pm »
Anyone else have a massive proportional difference in bad behavior between male and female students? In my case, my male students cause 70-80% of issues in the classroom. I don't mean cases of daydreaming or not focusing (that number is much closer to even, though still skewed towards the males). I mean cases of blatant disruption.

I find that girls disrupt in very different ways than the boys at my school.

We currently have a problem with one 6th grade girl who has become a sort of crime boss of her class. She doesn't actively disrupt the lessons, but she decides who is in and who is out in terms of social status. So teachers have a huge problem with getting anyone to actively participate in that class. This is even to the point where the teachers can't even be certain the girl they think it is is in fact the right girl, because none of the other students dare name them.

I also have one (of seven) of my 5th grade classes be predominantly disruptive girls. I often find that the boys disrupt by being rebellious, loud, and the class clown, whereas the girls disrupt by chatting, and not paying attention (i.e. dancing, drawing, pulling faces at each other).


Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2019, 03:50:32 pm »
I don't mean cases of daydreaming or not focusing (that number is much closer to even, though still skewed towards the males). I mean cases of blatant disruption. I've only ever taught at co-ed schools, and I can only imagine what it's like at an all boys or an all girls school. Of course a plethora of other factors could be at play, but I'd imagine on average the girls school would be much easier for classroom management.

It's a difficult one, and like you said other factors are at play.  I taught in a girls' middle for a year which had 10 classes for each grade and it was a big school.  The students are randomly placed from one year to the next so the classes are a real lottery.  I taught all the second grade once a week, and out of those ten classes, 9 classes were fine, one was awful, almost to the point of feeling so sorry for the students in that class who wanted to learn but had to put up with the more dominant bad girls.  It was ruined by four or five girls.  All the teachers had problems with that class.  Their homeroom teacher was a pretty, new, young female teacher and she couldn't handle them and had no idea how to fix these things.  Over my time here, I can now see the benefits of a decent, experienced homeroom teacher.  Sometimes, homeroom teachers get lucky.  There are two classes in my high school now and they're great, lovely students all the way through.  When I talk with the homeroom teachers about these two classes, they say they're lucky to have that class.  Generally, I praise the classes when they're good and tell the homeroom teacher as well, but also I mention if there are problems too.

I taught in a boys' middle too, and it's like night and day.  Girls come across as generally cutesie, but I find that they try harder.  The boys were fine for me, as long as you can show them a bit of tough love and be consistent.  I used to play football with my boys at lunchtime and after school and apart from loving doing that, I got the respect of the boys who love football, but they were usually the low-level students.  It's strange when I talk to other teachers, they seem to prefer teaching boys as they see them as less complicated.  You scold a boy and then the next day is a new day.  One of the girls (the ringleader) in that bad class in the girls' middle, I sent out in my second class there, and then she ignored me for the whole year.  Fine.  Whatever, she spent the class just putting on makeup. 

Generally, I prefer teaching girl students as I find them more imaginative and I get the feeling that they feel they have to work harder such as Korean society is.  But I taught a load of boy students who I loved to bits.  Like you, I taught co-ed too and it's an interesting comparison to see how co-ed and single-sex schools work.  I remember reading there was a study a few years back about the comparison of grades in co-ed and single-sex schools in Korea.  The grades showed that the only improvement was for the boys in co-ed schools.  Maybe they're showing off.   Can't vouch for the legitimacy of the study mind.  :undecided:


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1580

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2019, 06:29:07 pm »
So true about the school. If a girl decides to hate you, it'll be for life. As for boys, they have really short memories, like after 10 minutes they forget about the incident that got them punished. But 19/20 I'd rather teach at an all-girls school. Boys schools will have like 8/10 classes just being rowdy.

As for the studies of what schools do best, I've read that boys, and girls, do better in single gender schools. While in co-ed schools the, less than outgoing, girls tend not to be as active and stay really quiet. From my observation it tends to be true.


Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 07:08:10 am »
But 19/20 I'd rather teach at an all-girls school. Boys schools will have like 8/10 classes just being rowdy.

One thing I've always been fairly strict on here is swearing.  Boys swear the whole time.  Girls do also, but not as much.  Like was mentioned in another thread about the differences between how we swear in the west and how Koreans swear, I always found Korean swearing like *ahem* '18' for example, to be like nails on a chalkboard with me, and as such if I hear my students swearing, they are pulled up for it there and then.  Years ago, when I was in my co-ed countryside school and I was playing football with my boys and I heard any of them swearing, they'd be down instantly for 5 or 10 press-ups.  Just something I believe in.  I would never have thought of swearing in earshot of my teachers when I was a student because I would have been pulled up for it. 

Quote
As for the studies of what schools do best, I've read that boys, and girls, do better in single gender schools. While in co-ed schools the, less than outgoing, girls tend not to be as active and stay really quiet. From my observation it tends to be true.

Was talking with a co-teacher about this recently and how trends change in Korea.  About five years ago parents wanted their kids to go to a high school that was competitive, so their child would have the chance to get the best score because they're being pushed more.  They saw this being in the co-ed high schools.  But recently, as Korean parents think more about the welfare of their kids they think that single-sex high schools provide better welfare for their kids, especially for girls. 


Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2019, 02:39:48 pm »
Are you speaking exclusively about Korean female teachers here? Cause certainly I can't stand constantly disruptive students (but it does seem to be boys most often). What do you suggest be done though?

Both my co-teachers are male and one attempts to reign in the boys and manages to curb their disruptiveness but can't get them to participate in an activity they've set themselves against. So they just goof of somewhat quietly in the back the whole time. My other co-teacher doesn't seem to care at all about managing the students. He will either sit on his phone while I teach or joke around with the students pulling away all their focus. I've made a rewards and punishment system which has worked pretty well with my 3rd and 4th graders but 5th and particularly 6th are more of a struggle. I don't really know how I can command any sort of authority and order though when I only see each class actively for about 20 minutes a week. Then there is also the language barrier. While I understand Korean decently well, My own speaking isn't great and obviously I'm not supposed to be using Korean with the kids. I've had my co-teachers translate when I'm angry but they soften and simplify my words (I can tell) defeating the whole purpose. At the moment I make kids write lines as a punishment and thankfully I haven't had a student refuse to do it yet because I don't know what I can do at that point but spend my break/prep time keeping them there until they comply or have to go to their next class. I tried push-ups once but that just got turned into a big game and 'time-outs' against the wall just result in more annoying sounds and a child roaming around touching things in the back.

I'm new to teaching and while I don't have a teaching degree at the moment, I'm seriously thinking of pursuing one and going into teaching in my home country (Canada). This phenomena is one of my biggest concerns though and I wonder if I'll just be out of patience and worn down in a few years time. So I'm genuinely interested in advice on how to manage over active boys and children refusing to work point blank. While coddling difficult boys isn't common in the west (as someone mentioned), one wrong move or word and you're abusive. I've heard building a strong relationship with students by going to games or chatting is the way to get them on your side. That doesn't seem very possible here in Korea at unfortunately.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 03:05:05 pm by fangirl791 »


Re: Why do female teachers reward bad behavior in boys?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2019, 09:21:22 am »
I don't really know how I can command any sort of authority and order though when I only see each class actively for about 20 minutes a week. Then there is also the language barrier. While I understand Korean decently well, My own speaking isn't great and obviously I'm not supposed to be using Korean with the kids. I've had my co-teachers translate when I'm angry but they soften and simplify my words (I can tell) defeating the whole purpose.

At the risk of sounding unpopular, I think you can speak Korean with the students, if only for the fact that you alienate a group of students who can't or won't speak English.  It helps to nuture those kinds of relationships.  Especially as you teach in elementary school, it helps as the students will also speak simply in Korean, which will help you more with communication. 

Even though I teach in high school now, I know my students well and I converse with the students who speak English in English and that helps them improve.  If they speak, but can't remember a word, they'll ask me and I'll tell them the word.  It helps them.  Some students speak a little English and a little Korean, so I reciprocate.  It's just more comfortable and helps them.  All kids are different, you can't expect all of them to make the effort in immersion English, especially in elementary school.  Teach your classes in English, help some students with a little Korean during class if they need it, and then outside of class, it's up to you depending on who you're talking to.  As I've rarely had a co-teacher in my class, the discipline and scolding is usually up to me and I always do it in Korean.  I watched how other Korean teachers do it, decided which I thought was more my style and then used that when I have to control a class.  Usually, if I'm invigilating an exam, I only speak Korean as if there are any problems or misunderstandings then I won't get in trouble because I'm speaking English and all the students may not understand. 

I think the difference between your co-teachers is the norm for most of us here.  Active co-ts and the ones who are just 'there'.  But by the sounds of it, you've got it right.  You're consistent with your lessons, expectations and punishments which is important.  As time goes by you'll have the experience just to walk in a do it.  It's amazing the learning curve you'll get.  So if you decide that you want to go for a teaching licence, you'll ahve this wealth of experience to fall back on.