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Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2019, 01:17:00 pm »
The thing is where you got lack of discipline the bad kiddies will fill up that vaccum faster than Usan Bolt! YOu have to have a strong hand in your class and 100% demand respect and have the board back you up with consequences or the jig is up.  This is why I left my American school it is an utter shit fest Mad Max situation with the inmates running the asylum. Here I got back up and enforce discipline when needed. 


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2019, 12:32:30 am »
And I said only in Korea because of the sinister viciousness of the clumsy abuse. I have never seen a young child gaining so much enjoyment from toying with a limp lifeless victim as in that video.
Oh please. That video was mild compared to what goes down in the States. I mean the clumsy part sure, but "sinister viciousness"? Please.

Quote
Why, again, does management not step in?
Threat of lawsuits. Kids know they have the power, both physically and legally.  And they have more desire and force of will usually to take risks and win.

Usually when these threads pop up there's a bunch of teachers who talk about how wonderful their school was in small-town America (rarely) or Europe (much more often) and how this would never happen in THEIR classroom and its just like "Dude...you have no idea what you'd be dealing with." The students have two ways to win- through intimidation/violence OR through legalism and you as a teacher are almost certainly to lose in one if not both of those cases.


  • VanIslander
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Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2019, 01:33:55 am »
I remember:

In second grade elementary, a big boy was bullying a small boy and the teacher did nothing much about it.

One day the bully pushed the boy one too many times and then the boy picked up his pencil and SLAMMED it into the bully's forearm, ending the conflict for months and the class immediately.

That was back in 1976 and i wuz there!

The word "bullying" did NOT exist, or if it did we had never heard of it.

"Bully" did exist, a noun, a boy, overweight and unpopular, and a problem.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 01:37:50 am by VanIslander »


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2019, 06:38:35 am »
When I was in school we had 4 levels per grade.  Smart kids, 2. kinda smart kids, 3 average to dumb. and dumb

That way the kids were taught according to their intelligence and parenting help.  Nowadays in the states they mash em all together in the name of PC feel good nonsense.  And everybody suffers.  And you can't even suspend the worst of the worst anymore to make a more effective classroom. This is why im no longer teaching in the states. It's a testing ground for the far left and it's a disaster.


  • LIC
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Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2019, 12:26:12 pm »
I got bullied in elementary school year 5. I went crying to my dad and he said to fight back. Don't be a crybaby wimp. I asked him how, what to do, the kid was bigger and stronger.

My dad said be a shark! Attack from behind, never let dude see you coming and don't stop attacking until he's finished.

The next day I had a golden opportunity. The kid was about to start down the stairs and didn't see me come out of the washroom. I went up behind him and gave a mighty shove and pushed the kid down the stairs. When he hit bottom I was right behind him and stomped him hard. He spent time in emergency and a couple of days in the hospital legitimately messed up.

He never bothered me again. Or anyone else for that matter. 


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2019, 12:34:53 pm »
I got bullied in elementary school year 5. I went crying to my dad and he said to fight back. Don't be a crybaby wimp. I asked him how, what to do, the kid was bigger and stronger.

My dad said be a shark! Attack from behind, never let dude see you coming and don't stop attacking until he's finished.

The next day I had a golden opportunity. The kid was about to start down the stairs and didn't see me come out of the washroom. I went up behind him and gave a mighty shove and pushed the kid down the stairs. When he hit bottom I was right behind him and stomped him hard. He spent time in emergency and a couple of days in the hospital legitimately messed up.

He never bothered me again. Or anyone else for that matter. 

yeah man sounds like really sound advice to me. i can't possibly see this type of plan going wrong for anyone involved


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2019, 12:48:46 pm »
Sounds like really sound advice to me. i can't possibly see this type of plan going wrong for anyone involved
You missed the preceding first quarter of the movie-
Guy is in juvenile hall getting pummeled during a brawl while the COs just watch
*Record Scratch* *Freeze Frame* "Yup, that's me. You're probably wondering how I ended up here"


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2019, 02:24:13 pm »
Sounds like really sound advice to me. i can't possibly see this type of plan going wrong for anyone involved
You missed the preceding first quarter of the movie-
Guy is in juvenile hall getting pummeled during a brawl while the COs just watch
*Record Scratch* *Freeze Frame* "Yup, that's me. You're probably wondering how I ended up here"
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: haha made my day


  • fka
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Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2019, 06:04:17 pm »
When I was in school we had 4 levels per grade.  Smart kids, 2. kinda smart kids, 3 average to dumb. and dumb

That way the kids were taught according to their intelligence and parenting help.  Nowadays in the states they mash em all together in the name of PC feel good nonsense.  And everybody suffers.  And you can't even suspend the worst of the worst anymore to make a more effective classroom. This is why im no longer teaching in the states. It's a testing ground for the far left and it's a disaster.

So how did teachers manage 4 levels of instruction in a single class period? Surely "per grade" means, by defintion, that the kids in the same age cohort are taught together. When were you in school? And what is the specific "far left / PC feel good nonsense" policy that precipitated the shift from whatever you experienced to "mashing everyone together"? According to the most recent stats I can find (2014-15), there were 2.6 million students who received out-of-school suspensions in the US, and the annual numbers have been declining only by fractions of percentage points since the start of the century. Maybe the decline is consistent with research data suggesting that suspension and expulsion have significant long-term externalities?

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,33&q=out+of+school+suspension+review
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 06:21:12 pm by fka »


  • Cyanea
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Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2019, 08:03:34 pm »
I absolutely hate that age group. Could never work at a middle school. I was awful at that age and so were most of my friends. I still carry a lot of guilt for some of the cruel shit we got away with.

I don't hate them, they're just being boys. Same as we all were at that age.

But the system needs to protect teachers, as well as kids, from their worst excesses. At the moment it is spectacularly failing to do so, because semantic left wing theologies have been allowed to prevail over reality.

I believe in discipline. It worked very well at schools I grew up in. CP works wonders to teach adolescents respect for themselves, others and the wider community, although it has to be promulgated in a controlled way. CP is like anything, it can be done properly or badly.

of course if you take only the very worst examples of mismanaged CP, pretend like they are the norm, then ask people who are not involved or qualified in education to vote on it, of course you will end up with a majority against.

That's like showing car crashes and cars running over people on TV 24/7 for a month, then asking people to vote if we should ban cars.

Countless studies have shown that..

The anti-CP organizations that commissioned the studies only accept conclusions favouring their viewpoint. Studies can be made to say anything you want them to say: "science" is often corrupted into a tool serving peoples agendas.

Besides, you didn't define CP nor abuse, which you would have to do before you conduct studies. You don't seem to know the meaning of the word corporal, so I doubt you even know what those two terms mean. When you throw vague terms up into the air and add ridiculous doses of emotionalism then you end up with nonsense.





Catch my drift?


  • JVPrice
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Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2019, 12:13:58 pm »
But the system needs to protect teachers, as well as kids, from their worst excesses. At the moment it is spectacularly failing to do so, because semantic left wing theologies have been allowed to prevail over reality.

I believe in discipline. It worked very well at schools I grew up in. CP works wonders to teach adolescents respect for themselves, others and the wider community, although it has to be promulgated in a controlled way. CP is like anything, it can be done properly or badly.


A sensible person ^

A lot of people here want things to change but don't want to do what it takes. It's a simple fact of life: you do bad, bad things happen to you, sooner or later. It's honestly better to teach these kids that now before they grow up and realize they can't get away with everything. Granted, Korea encourages that behavior, but they'll be shocked when they're being bullied by higher-ups in future jobs, or that foreigners WILL FIGHT BACK if they try to bully them.

I'd rather my kid understand the concept of punishment so they A) aren't a menace to society and B) don't get shell-shocked when they grow up and have to face reality.
The World Ends With You


  • Cohort 2019
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Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2019, 12:00:01 am »
https://youtu.be/Bv_d6laoxzM?t=197

I have witnessed all of these punishments dished out by colleagues quite generously prior to 2010 and to be honest, many times since I wish I had stepped in and stopped them. Once, I heard loud yelling coming from the hallway and I opened my door to see what was going on and there I saw a female teacher hitting one of her students. What struck me the most is that nobody protested, as if the (female) teacher was just having a normal chat with the student in the hallway.

From the knuckling on the head, to the thrashing with a stick while yelling 'Op-turyo!' or the hellish screeching of another old female teacher acting out her frustrations on an entire group of girls, telling them to hold up their arms while kneeling on their tables, not once have I ever thought that at least it was teaching them respect for themselves or anyone else for that matter.

All it ever did was just cover the entire school in an ominous shroud of dread changing the entire hallway into a tomb of evil darkness with everyone running away from that old hag as fast as their legs could carry them, myself included.

I really think that even she, herself, didn't want to be like that, as she often would act overly apologetic afterwards for a few days, but she would always, without fail, lose her temper shortly after and just hit children left and right, simply because she was able to abuse her position as a headteacher that way. In my eyes someone who resorts to corporal punishment has no business being a teacher.

This video however shows kids hitting their teacher. So, I guess you could argue that that teacher should have at least yelled or walked out, instead of letting himself being hit by some 14-year-olds.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1209466782413957
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 12:14:57 am by Cohort 2019 »
incumbo studiis


  • Cyanea
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Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2019, 12:25:52 am »
https://youtu.be/Bv_d6laoxzM?t=197

I have witnessed all of these punishments dished out by colleagues quite generously prior to 2010 and to be honest, many times since I wish I had stepped in and stopped them. Once, I heard loud yelling coming from the hallway and I opened my door to see what was going on and there I saw a female teacher hitting one of her students. What struck me the most is that nobody protested, as if the (female) teacher was just having a normal chat with the student in the hallway.

From the knuckling on the head, to the thrashing with a stick while yelling 'Op-turyo!' or the hellish screeching of another old female teacher acting out her frustrations on an entire group of girls, telling them to hold up their arms while kneeling on their tables, not once have I ever thought that at least it was teaching them respect for themselves or anyone else for that matter.

As usual, you have given a lot of one-sided extreme examples of bad use of CP without mentioning good examples.

Nobody is saying this is how it has to be.

A good CP system involves the cane to the rear only, dealt by the principal or vice principal only, under observation of two other staff members, after permission given by parents. For well-defined offences that parents and students are notified of beforehand.

That is how you create an orderly system that works.


The problem with korea is that they never had a clue of how to promulgate CP in an orderly, fair, dispassionate and effective way. CP should never put the childs physical health in danger, there should never be any indiscriminate thrashing of kids done under emotion. There should never be any punches to a childs face, ..none of that. I agreee fully, these are misuses and abuses of CP. Given the chaotic way in which they wielded CP, its not surprising that people have a bad perception of it and they ended up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.



Catch my drift?


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2019, 09:12:27 am »
we don't use corporal punishment on people who commit real crimes, so why should we use it on students who talk in class? or do you propose we bring CP back to the criminal justice system as well?


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2019, 10:41:08 am »
we don't use corporal punishment on people who commit real crimes, so why should we use it on students who talk in class? or do you propose we bring CP back to the criminal justice system as well?
There are pros and cons. On the one hand, you lose the opportunity to rehabilitate and keep habitual criminals off the street. On the other, you don't generate a prison industry.


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2019, 11:06:49 am »
we don't use corporal punishment on people who commit real crimes, so why should we use it on students who talk in class? or do you propose we bring CP back to the criminal justice system as well?
There are pros and cons. On the one hand, you lose the opportunity to rehabilitate and keep habitual criminals off the street. On the other, you don't generate a prison industry.

i dont see how it would affect the prison industry. you'd just generate a torture industry within the existing prison industry. it's not like CP would replace jail time. ex. in singapore you get both. ethically, it's a really messy institution and i think going back to CP (in school or otherwise) would be a step backwards


Re: Middle school bullying on video
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2019, 12:52:53 pm »
we don't use corporal punishment on people who commit real crimes, so why should we use it on students who talk in class? or do you propose we bring CP back to the criminal justice system as well?
There are pros and cons. On the one hand, you lose the opportunity to rehabilitate and keep habitual criminals off the street. On the other, you don't generate a prison industry.

i dont see how it would affect the prison industry. you'd just generate a torture industry within the existing prison industry. it's not like CP would replace jail time. ex. in singapore you get both. ethically, it's a really messy institution and i think going back to CP (in school or otherwise) would be a step backwards
Ahh I see ehat you're saying. I was picturing more 20 whacks/day in the stocks and then life moves on.