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Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« on: October 24, 2019, 06:35:00 pm »
Context; EPIK, SMOE (Seoul)

Under Article 10.2, we are entitled to one week bonus holiday upon contract renewal, and my principal kindly agreed to delay this until winter as there was no room during summer.
However, as these bonus days have to be consecutive, and there must also be 2weeks of camp, there's an issue with using them during winter.
So that camp can smoothly sit on two full weeks, my school seems to be heavily implying that my bonus week holiday will need to include a red day (12.25 or 01.01), which means that within my bonus week I'm only really getting 4days off.
Whilst I should be grateful that Seoul still has this bonus, and that my principal even allowed me to delay these bonus days, I can't help but feel like I'm getting screwed...

Also, when I emailed SMOE about the removal of Article 14.6 (employers can give you the day off the school if closed, at their discretion), I was told that there is no option to choose to deskwarm.
The school is closed so we HAVE to use our holiday.

Just wondering if anyone else has had any experience with these issues? I imagine the only advice is to stfu and enjoy the privileges I do still have but... I can't help but feel like there's something very amiss with all this.


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2019, 01:06:38 pm »
I have the same issues and along with using my sick leave (that's a whole other story). For the school being able to use vacation days, I tried to fight my school using my vacation days for when the school is closed, but was told I don't have a choice and I signed the contract so I have no say in the matter whatsoever. I personally think it's totally unfair that we have to use our vacation days for these extra days off (even thought the Korean teachers don't. I get it they're the Korean teachers so they're different than us, but still) and don't even have the option to deskwarm.

As for your bonus days, as far as I know which is typically much, the red days are already given to us off, so you aren't able to use your one of your bonus days for it. So, if your school is trying to tell you otherwise I would find where it says we already get those days off, so something else needs to be figured out. If they still don't go for it, then email the useless coordinator at SMOE and see what she says. Edit: Article 7 Clause 1 will help you win your argument with using that extra day off on a red day! :)

With these contract changes SMOE tries to make it seem like we're getting a good deal out of it, but we're really getting screwed out of vacation days. Sorry if I didn't help much!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 01:20:00 pm by danielle.king1 »


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1657

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2019, 01:39:29 pm »
You should contact the person negotiating for us with the education office.... oh wait there isnít anyone negotiating for us.


  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 801

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2019, 01:55:12 pm »
You should contact the person negotiating for us with the education office.... oh wait there isnít anyone negotiating for us.


There were was a time when it is worth being a public school...now, it seems, not so much.

Korea...sparkling.


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2019, 03:34:27 pm »
You should contact the person negotiating for us with the education office.... oh wait there isnít anyone negotiating for us.


There were was a time when it is worth being a public school...now, it seems, not so much.

Korea...sparkling.

Meanwhile,

-Nearly 50 hours a week (working hours)
-40+ classes (not POLY and for less money)
-Housing is a bit over a mile away (no direct bus...will suck in the summer/monsoon)
-Housing is shared with a Korean co-teacher and the director's brother (it is a villa divided into four different rooms)
-Going from classroom to classroom
-Found out I replaced a runner
-Each class has 3-5 different books
-The teachers room is a sardine can...no space
-No teachers' books to actually plan a lesson, unless you go from classroom to classroom and seek them out
-Phucking PHONE TEACHINGd


Compared to where you work, it seems pretty worth it.



  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 801

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2019, 12:55:21 pm »
..six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 03:15:46 pm »
I have the same issues and along with using my sick leave (that's a whole other story). For the school being able to use vacation days, I tried to fight my school using my vacation days for when the school is closed, but was told I don't have a choice and I signed the contract so I have no say in the matter whatsoever. I personally think it's totally unfair that we have to use our vacation days for these extra days off (even thought the Korean teachers don't. I get it they're the Korean teachers so they're different than us, but still) and don't even have the option to deskwarm.

As for your bonus days, as far as I know which is typically much, the red days are already given to us off, so you aren't able to use your one of your bonus days for it. So, if your school is trying to tell you otherwise I would find where it says we already get those days off, so something else needs to be figured out. If they still don't go for it, then email the useless coordinator at SMOE and see what she says. Edit: Article 7 Clause 1 will help you win your argument with using that extra day off on a red day! :)

With these contract changes SMOE tries to make it seem like we're getting a good deal out of it, but we're really getting screwed out of vacation days. Sorry if I didn't help much!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Indeed. If the principal uses all their discretionary holidays each year, we're actually getting LESS holiday than we were. Though SMOE would like us to believe they've done us a favour by 'upping' the holidays, as per law.

The way my school is arguing it is that the contract says I get one week. So that means a consecutive 7 days (including weekend). So if those 7 days include a red day, they can't therefore bump the holiday to 8 days to accommodate, as that is not what my contract states. They have, however, said that they will consider holding camp from Jan 2~15 so that I can have Jan 17~23 as my consecutive 7 days. Fingers crossed...


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2019, 02:24:54 pm »
I have the same issues and along with using my sick leave (that's a whole other story). For the school being able to use vacation days, I tried to fight my school using my vacation days for when the school is closed, but was told I don't have a choice and I signed the contract so I have no say in the matter whatsoever. I personally think it's totally unfair that we have to use our vacation days for these extra days off (even thought the Korean teachers don't. I get it they're the Korean teachers so they're different than us, but still) and don't even have the option to deskwarm.

As for your bonus days, as far as I know which is typically much, the red days are already given to us off, so you aren't able to use your one of your bonus days for it. So, if your school is trying to tell you otherwise I would find where it says we already get those days off, so something else needs to be figured out. If they still don't go for it, then email the useless coordinator at SMOE and see what she says. Edit: Article 7 Clause 1 will help you win your argument with using that extra day off on a red day! :)

With these contract changes SMOE tries to make it seem like we're getting a good deal out of it, but we're really getting screwed out of vacation days. Sorry if I didn't help much!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

Indeed. If the principal uses all their discretionary holidays each year, we're actually getting LESS holiday than we were. Though SMOE would like us to believe they've done us a favour by 'upping' the holidays, as per law.

The way my school is arguing it is that the contract says I get one week. So that means a consecutive 7 days (including weekend). So if those 7 days include a red day, they can't therefore bump the holiday to 8 days to accommodate, as that is not what my contract states. They have, however, said that they will consider holding camp from Jan 2~15 so that I can have Jan 17~23 as my consecutive 7 days. Fingers crossed...

Just use them in February?


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2019, 02:44:26 pm »
I work for Gyeongsangbuk-do EPIK. Actual red days (Christmas, New Years, Chuseok, etc) have never counted towards my vacation days as they are actual government holidays. The new law (new contracts) has made a change when it comes to discretionary days (typically school holidays), and those are now taken from my vacation time.

Furthermore, I'm not sure how is it in Seoul, but in my POE our vacation days take precedence over English camp. This became a big thing a few years ago, because school weren't allowing NETs to have the time off they were entitled too. So now, our vacation time comes before camp. (Ex. a school can't schedule a NET for four weeks of English camp when the NET is entitled to three weeks of vacation.) I would definitely contact your regional coordinator about this, because actual red days are not to be counted towards our vacation days as an EPIK employee.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 02:49:16 pm by belocean11 »


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2019, 08:22:11 am »
Just use them in February?
The renewal days are originally supposed to be used BEFORE the start of the new contract. I'm lucky my principal has even agreed to delay them until this winter holiday as apparently my previous coteacher and the headteacher had to do quite some convincing...

Furthermore, I'm not sure how is it in Seoul, but in my POE our vacation days take precedence over English camp. [...] I would definitely contact your regional coordinator about this, because actual red days are not to be counted towards our vacation days as an EPIK employee.
Sadly there's a clause in my contract that states holiday is only to be taken when it doesn't interfere with normal school operations (i.e. English camp, class prep, etc.).
Contacting my coordinator will be my next step if my principal refuses the plan to do camp from Jan 2~15 so that I can have my holiday from Jan 17~23. However, every time I've contacted my coordinator I've gotten the politely worded equivalent of "it is how it is, so don't cause a problem and just deal with it" so... I won't hold my breath.


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5400

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2019, 10:37:06 am »
I work for Gyeongsangbuk-do EPIK. Actual red days (Christmas, New Years, Chuseok, etc) have never counted towards my vacation days as they are actual government holidays. The new law (new contracts) has made a change when it comes to discretionary days (typically school holidays), and those are now taken from my vacation time.
I also work in Gyeongbuk, and what you say is true... *but* we get an additional 3 days of vacation in our contract to make up for that.

Old contract:
8 days summer
10 days winter
5 days renewal bonus
23 days total.

New contract:
18 days to be used whenever (except during regular scheduled school classes, obviously).
5 days bonus (even for those who aren't renewing)
3 days discretionary holiday compensation
26 days total.

 :undecided:


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2019, 11:42:17 am »
Quote
I also work in Gyeongbuk, and what you say is true... *but* we get an additional 3 days of vacation in our contract to make up for that.

Old contract:
8 days summer
10 days winter
5 days renewal bonus
23 days total.

New contract:
18 days to be used whenever (except during regular scheduled school classes, obviously).
5 days bonus (even for those who aren't renewing)
3 days discretionary holiday compensation
26 days total.

Correct, but OP is talking about having their school use Christmas or New Years as their vacation day.

Quote
So that camp can smoothly sit on two full weeks, my school seems to be heavily implying that my bonus week holiday will need to include a red day (12.25 or 01.01), which means that within my bonus week I'm only really getting 4days off.

Which is not correct, because Christmas and New Years are actual red days and not discretionary days, so the school shouldn't be able to use those days as vacation days. Discretionary days are school holidays in which the school decides, such as a red day falls on a Thursday and the school decides to gap it and have Friday off as well.



  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5400

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2019, 11:49:26 am »
Quote
[contract stuff]

Correct, but OP is talking about having their school use Christmas or New Years as their vacation day.

Quote
So that camp can smoothly sit on two full weeks, my school seems to be heavily implying that my bonus week holiday will need to include a red day (12.25 or 01.01), which means that within my bonus week I'm only really getting 4days off.

Which is not correct, because Christmas and New Years are actual red days and not discretionary days, so the school shouldn't be able to use those days as vacation days. Discretionary days are school holidays in which the school decides, such as a red day falls on a Thursday and the school decides to gap it and have Friday off as well.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.
 The school is totally out of line, and a quick call to the Regional Coordinator should be enough to clear up the misunderstanding (if the RC is at all on the ball, that is).

My reply was more about the perception that a lot of people have that being forced to take vacation days on discretionary holidays is somehow stealing from our total vacation time, which isn't the case.


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2019, 01:26:47 pm »
Quote
So that camp can smoothly sit on two full weeks, my school seems to be heavily implying that my bonus week holiday will need to include a red day (12.25 or 01.01), which means that within my bonus week I'm only really getting 4days off.

Which is not correct, because Christmas and New Years are actual red days and not discretionary days, so the school shouldn't be able to use those days as vacation days. Discretionary days are school holidays in which the school decides, such as a red day falls on a Thursday and the school decides to gap it and have Friday off as well.
I'm not talking about discretionary days, I'm talking about the one week renewal bonus. As I mentioned previously, within my contract this bonus is specifically stated to be "one week". If it were phrased as "five working days" I would not have this problem. However, the specific wording in the contract means my school is arguing that I would not come into school for 7 consecutive days. Two of those days obviously being a weekend. And due to the timing of it, they're arguing that if those 7 consecutive days also include a red day, that's just my bad luck, because the contract itself does not stipulate that should that week include a red day, there will be an extra day off to compensate.

My reply was more about the perception that a lot of people have that being forced to take vacation days on discretionary holidays is somehow stealing from our total vacation time, which isn't the case.
I'm curious on what your view on this is then? Because from what you said you used to get 23days, plus discretionary for free. Now you get 26, but discretionary has to use a holiday day.
I've had to use 2 discretionary days so far this semester, with another one being used at the end of this month. That's all 3 'extra' days used. 3 months into the working year. So what happens next semester when the principal uses more of his discretionary days? It eats into those holiday days which I originally had, making them less.


  • kyndo
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    • 5400

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2019, 01:43:31 pm »
I'm curious on what your view on this is then? Because from what you said you used to get 23days, plus discretionary for free. Now you get 26, but discretionary has to use a holiday day.
I've had to use 2 discretionary days so far this semester, with another one being used at the end of this month. That's all 3 'extra' days used. 3 months into the working year. So what happens next semester when the principal uses more of his discretionary days? It eats into those holiday days which I originally had, making them less.
I believe that schools are only allowed to have 3 discretionary holidays per year (which is why we're given 3 additional days).

This leaves us with three different situations:
1. School uses all three discretionary days, leaving us NETs no better or worse off than we were before.  :undecided:
2. School doesn't use all 3 discretionary days, which gives us an extra day or 2 for our vacation!  :smiley:
3. School uses all 3 discretionary days, but doesn't realize that us NETs are now required to use our vacation days for them, which means 3 bonus days for those of us smart enough not to bring it up!  ;D


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2019, 02:00:52 pm »
I believe that schools are only allowed to have 3 discretionary holidays per year (which is why we're given 3 additional days).
Ah, I think this here is the difference. My school says it's 3 discretionary holidays per semester:cry: :cry:


  • kyndo
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    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2019, 02:24:18 pm »
Ah, I think this here is the difference. My school says it's 3 discretionary holidays per semester:cry: :cry:
Oh.
My condolences. :sad:


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 02:49:32 pm »
I'm curious on what your view on this is then? Because from what you said you used to get 23days, plus discretionary for free. Now you get 26, but discretionary has to use a holiday day.
I've had to use 2 discretionary days so far this semester, with another one being used at the end of this month. That's all 3 'extra' days used. 3 months into the working year. So what happens next semester when the principal uses more of his discretionary days? It eats into those holiday days which I originally had, making them less.
I believe that schools are only allowed to have 3 discretionary holidays per year (which is why we're given 3 additional days).

This leaves us with three different situations:
1. School uses all three discretionary days, leaving us NETs no better or worse off than we were before.  :undecided:
2. School doesn't use all 3 discretionary days, which gives us an extra day or 2 for our vacation!  :smiley:
3. School uses all 3 discretionary days, but doesn't realize that us NETs are now required to use our vacation days for them, which means 3 bonus days for those of us smart enough not to bring it up!  ;D


I did not say anything about it to my school, hoping that it would slide under the radar for the first time....then the POE checked, called my school, had me change it.

The next time I said I am not taking a vacation day. I am coming to school if that's what it takes. I came to school and sat alone doing work. Some teachers showed up for various reasons, we ate, worked, went home.


Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2019, 02:52:04 pm »
Ah, I think this here is the difference. My school says it's 3 discretionary holidays per semester:cry: :cry:
Oh.
My condolences. :sad:

I was also told it was 3 days per year, and my schools have used 2 or 3 per year.


  • kyndo
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    • 5400

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Issues with Contract Changes (10.2 & 14.6)
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 02:58:11 pm »
I work at like 4 different schools, and somehow I never end up at a school when it's time for its discretionary holiday. Funny how that works.  :rolleyes:

Anyway, jokes on them: I get 19 working days vacation this winter!  :azn: