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  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 521

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #120 on: October 08, 2019, 01:05:42 pm »
Quote
So you bold one thing and retort about that?  I'm painting a whole picture, one that not everyone is aware of.    We follow the guidelines in our contract, we don't try to skirt it or make up something to get around it.  In there , teachers are required to work 8 hours a day and the rare chances they have nothing to do, we'll give them something to do.  The other poster clarified what he meant, so it's not necessary to rehash it.

As far as the stuff that's none of your business....  We pay the normal going rate that everyone is complaining about, and we've never had a problem filling the position.  We are always willing to pay more based on qualifications and work experience, but we aren't in Seoul so frankly we normally don't get applicants with that much experience.  They are usually just starting out.  Our current teacher was suggested to us by a foreigner who used to live here and since went back to her country.  Her friend there wanted to teach so she contacted us.   This business is my families livelihood, and also the livelihood of the Korean teachers working for us.  If we ever get a Westerner who makes Korea their home it could be there livelihood as well, until then, we certainly aren't going to spend time catering to teachers who will be spending a year here and then they are gone.  They get a contract, they follow it and we follow the responsibilities outlined in the contract for the employer as well.  It's like any job anywhere, you fulfill what's required of you, and your employer fulfills what's required of them.


The normal. cheapskate rate or the normal rate for a school that values its staff and keeps up with inflation?

GREAT attitude, about not wanting to "cater" to teachers who are just here for year.  After all, who can blame them?

"Nothing to do, give them something to do"....WTF man?  It is only ESL...I understand it is your livelihood but get a grip.  Using and abusing teachers for every minute of ever hour is just....meh, never mind. 

No, it is not like any other job ,anywhere....if you really think that, well....meh again..never mind. 

Anyway...kudos for responding. 


Just like most people here have already stated, the salary is enough to live off of and enjoy ones time here.  Ten years ago the salaries were way overblown, that doesn't mean you should just keep raising them when they were already high to begin with.  I lived off of it no problem when I came here, and could do it again if I had to.  The last teacher we had was gone traveling every weekend, the new one seems to be doing the same.  Pretty sure they are making enough money to live leisurely in their short time in this country.

I think there are just a few people in here who, for some reason or another, are coming to grips with the fact that their ability to speak English because they have been doing it since they were toddlers is not some special skill that entitles them to a high paying job.  It's reality and no amount of debating about inflation, working hours, job duties etc is going to change that.  If you folks wanted a high paying job you should have learned another skill than just growing up in an English speaking country.  And not teaching, because that doesn't pay well anywhere except maybe the Middle East and some Nordic countries. I'm amazed at how much people get paid to do this, personally.  I felt I was living the dream to get paid what I did before becoming a business owner.  The only people I feel sorry for are the Korean teachers because they do most of the work and get paid the least in this country.  Granted their English ability usually leaves a lot to be desired outside of Seoul, but they still work their asses off.

That's my two cents anyway.


  • stoat
  • Super Waygook

    • 251

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #121 on: October 08, 2019, 01:18:30 pm »
Teaching can be easy but it can also be highly stressful and tiring. It really depends on the circumstances. When you get a complaint about one of your Native speaker teachers is it usually about their level of English or another issue? Assuming it's the latter, do you listen to the nature of the complaint and try and impart teaching skills on the inexperienced teachers you usually employ? If so then you have to agree there are other skills involved apart from being able to speak the language
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 01:45:00 pm by stoat »


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 521

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #122 on: October 08, 2019, 06:49:19 pm »
Teaching can be easy but it can also be highly stressful and tiring. It really depends on the circumstances. When you get a complaint about one of your Native speaker teachers is it usually about their level of English or another issue? Assuming it's the latter, do you listen to the nature of the complaint and try and impart teaching skills on the inexperienced teachers you usually employ? If so then you have to agree there are other skills involved apart from being able to speak the language

Yes, and that is a good point.  I don't want to downplay that being an actual good teacher involves some skill and also some inherent instincts and personality traits.  I cannot argue that, there are certainly people "born to teach" and if I encountered someone like that who wanted to stay in Korea more than a year there would absolutely be incentive to keep them and raise their pay, no doubt about it.

As far as training, I do a ton.  My Korean wife is actually way less forgiving and has unreal expectations.  We get into many fights because she accuses me of "sticking up for teachers".  My attitude is that I know how difficult it is to teach entirely in English knowing no Korean.  If I compared my ability now to when I didn't know any Korean, I had such a limited role in students learning.  Now I feel I can actually introduce grammar points on a deeper level and reach students, when I was a beginner, they always need a follow up with an explanation in Korean.  A lot of it is the fault of the English education system here, I never blame teachers for that. 

Most of our complaints come from classroom management issues.  One kid called another a name, they bickered back and forth, someone's feelings got hurt and they don't want to come to class anymore.  My wife wants to know why a western teacher cannot fix all of that in class, knowing no Korean.  And I have to stick up for the western teacher and it leads to a fight.  It's frustrating to say the least, and I've just accepted my wife is really poor at putting herself in someone else's shoes, whereas I'm pretty good at it.  So I'm constantly training new teachers on how to make her happy, how to recognize problems in the classroom and settle them before they escalate.  We actually have two part-time helpers who work in the waiting area keeping students quiet, doing retests, helping with homework and they are also on call for the western teachers to provide explanations or help with escalated classroom management issues.

Again, 90% of complaints about Western teachers fall within classroom management categories and how can I blame anybody.  If you can't discipline in Korean kids just hear the teacher from Charlie Brown and don't take that seriously.  It will always be a crutch no matter how much English classroom language we teach.  It's unavoidable.  Sometimes I just want to yell at moms to tell their kids to grow a pair.  The amount of kids who want to quit because they don't have any friends in class is infuriating.  I tell kids in Korean all the time, "This isn't friend class, it's English class.  You are here to learn".  Kids are coddled badly here, and I imagine collectivism is to blame.  Why try to change the people around you, change yourself.


Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #123 on: October 09, 2019, 09:10:42 am »
I could probably be a lifer if there was some other job available. In my current situation, the lessons are so mind-numbingly easy and repetitive. I only teach one grade so imagine doing the same exact thing, Monday to Friday. I'm not sure what caused me to sign up for a second year, but I'm definitely not doing it for a third year. Patiently waiting until Feb to bounce lol.


Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #124 on: October 09, 2019, 12:23:26 pm »
Teaching can be easy but it can also be highly stressful and tiring. It really depends on the circumstances. When you get a complaint about one of your Native speaker teachers is it usually about their level of English or another issue? Assuming it's the latter, do you listen to the nature of the complaint and try and impart teaching skills on the inexperienced teachers you usually employ? If so then you have to agree there are other skills involved apart from being able to speak the language

Yes, and that is a good point.  I don't want to downplay that being an actual good teacher involves some skill and also some inherent instincts and personality traits.  I cannot argue that, there are certainly people "born to teach" and if I encountered someone like that who wanted to stay in Korea more than a year there would absolutely be incentive to keep them and raise their pay, no doubt about it.

As far as training, I do a ton.  My Korean wife is actually way less forgiving and has unreal expectations.  We get into many fights because she accuses me of "sticking up for teachers".  My attitude is that I know how difficult it is to teach entirely in English knowing no Korean.  If I compared my ability now to when I didn't know any Korean, I had such a limited role in students learning.  Now I feel I can actually introduce grammar points on a deeper level and reach students, when I was a beginner, they always need a follow up with an explanation in Korean.  A lot of it is the fault of the English education system here, I never blame teachers for that. 

Most of our complaints come from classroom management issues.  One kid called another a name, they bickered back and forth, someone's feelings got hurt and they don't want to come to class anymore.  My wife wants to know why a western teacher cannot fix all of that in class, knowing no Korean.  And I have to stick up for the western teacher and it leads to a fight.  It's frustrating to say the least, and I've just accepted my wife is really poor at putting herself in someone else's shoes, whereas I'm pretty good at it.  So I'm constantly training new teachers on how to make her happy, how to recognize problems in the classroom and settle them before they escalate.  We actually have two part-time helpers who work in the waiting area keeping students quiet, doing retests, helping with homework and they are also on call for the western teachers to provide explanations or help with escalated classroom management issues.

Again, 90% of complaints about Western teachers fall within classroom management categories and how can I blame anybody.  If you can't discipline in Korean kids just hear the teacher from Charlie Brown and don't take that seriously.  It will always be a crutch no matter how much English classroom language we teach.  It's unavoidable.  Sometimes I just want to yell at moms to tell their kids to grow a pair.  The amount of kids who want to quit because they don't have any friends in class is infuriating.  I tell kids in Korean all the time, "This isn't friend class, it's English class.  You are here to learn".  Kids are coddled badly here, and I imagine collectivism is to blame.  Why try to change the people around you, change yourself.
Your wife sounds like a bit of a xenophobe


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 521

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #125 on: October 09, 2019, 12:41:44 pm »
Teaching can be easy but it can also be highly stressful and tiring. It really depends on the circumstances. When you get a complaint about one of your Native speaker teachers is it usually about their level of English or another issue? Assuming it's the latter, do you listen to the nature of the complaint and try and impart teaching skills on the inexperienced teachers you usually employ? If so then you have to agree there are other skills involved apart from being able to speak the language

Yes, and that is a good point.  I don't want to downplay that being an actual good teacher involves some skill and also some inherent instincts and personality traits.  I cannot argue that, there are certainly people "born to teach" and if I encountered someone like that who wanted to stay in Korea more than a year there would absolutely be incentive to keep them and raise their pay, no doubt about it.

As far as training, I do a ton.  My Korean wife is actually way less forgiving and has unreal expectations.  We get into many fights because she accuses me of "sticking up for teachers".  My attitude is that I know how difficult it is to teach entirely in English knowing no Korean.  If I compared my ability now to when I didn't know any Korean, I had such a limited role in students learning.  Now I feel I can actually introduce grammar points on a deeper level and reach students, when I was a beginner, they always need a follow up with an explanation in Korean.  A lot of it is the fault of the English education system here, I never blame teachers for that. 

Most of our complaints come from classroom management issues.  One kid called another a name, they bickered back and forth, someone's feelings got hurt and they don't want to come to class anymore.  My wife wants to know why a western teacher cannot fix all of that in class, knowing no Korean.  And I have to stick up for the western teacher and it leads to a fight.  It's frustrating to say the least, and I've just accepted my wife is really poor at putting herself in someone else's shoes, whereas I'm pretty good at it.  So I'm constantly training new teachers on how to make her happy, how to recognize problems in the classroom and settle them before they escalate.  We actually have two part-time helpers who work in the waiting area keeping students quiet, doing retests, helping with homework and they are also on call for the western teachers to provide explanations or help with escalated classroom management issues.

Again, 90% of complaints about Western teachers fall within classroom management categories and how can I blame anybody.  If you can't discipline in Korean kids just hear the teacher from Charlie Brown and don't take that seriously.  It will always be a crutch no matter how much English classroom language we teach.  It's unavoidable.  Sometimes I just want to yell at moms to tell their kids to grow a pair.  The amount of kids who want to quit because they don't have any friends in class is infuriating.  I tell kids in Korean all the time, "This isn't friend class, it's English class.  You are here to learn".  Kids are coddled badly here, and I imagine collectivism is to blame.  Why try to change the people around you, change yourself.
Your wife sounds like a bit of a xenophobe

Nope, she does the same thing with the Korean teachers.  She thinks being a perfect teacher is something everyone just knows how to do, and she doesn't understand why people don't think exactly like she does.   Makes her a good owner, but hard to work with at times.


  • LIC
  • Super Waygook

    • 352

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #126 on: October 09, 2019, 05:06:13 pm »
Also if it was so easy back home to make more per month than 2.2m plus a free apartment, nobody would be in Korea.

What about the magnetism of Kpop?

Quote
It seems like K-pop is definitely a rising genre globally for fans to listen to!

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry has released its 2019 data on global listening, and K-pop is the 7th most popular genre of music in the world!

https://www.allkpop.com/article/2019/09/k-pop-is-the-7th-most-listened-to-genre-in-the-world-koreans-are-the-best-at-buying-music

What does popular mean? How is it assessed? Is it like Psy's pathetic hit back a few years ago that made it the most watched video on Youtube? You know, 50 million Koreans hitting the like button 500 times a day for years.


Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #127 on: October 09, 2019, 05:14:13 pm »
Still waiting for proof of all these 5m a month or 2.5m for 25 hours of week jobs that basically grow on trees in Korea in the middle of a multi-year recession.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 pm
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • stoat
  • Super Waygook

    • 251

    • March 05, 2019, 06:36:13 pm
    • seoul
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #128 on: October 09, 2019, 05:54:08 pm »
Still waiting for proof of all these 5m a month or 2.5m for 25 hours of week jobs that basically grow on trees in Korea in the middle of a multi-year recession.

All the people who showed enough initiative to PM me know by now. Is this how you get jobs as well, by waiting around expecting people to hand you things on a plate?


  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 627

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Munsan
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #129 on: October 09, 2019, 06:46:41 pm »
Still waiting for proof of all these 5m a month or 2.5m for 25 hours of week jobs that basically grow on trees in Korea in the middle of a multi-year recession.

All the people who showed enough initiative to PM me know by now. Is this how you get jobs as well, by waiting around expecting people to hand you things on a plate?

From the looks of Facebook posts concerning applicants looking for teaching jobs...it very well seems that way.  Then again, I see more and more employers posting the bare in minimum, in their quest to find an employee.


In some ways, I have a sense of regret getting into this field and staying in Korea for so long..(off and on).  But then again, I also feel that for whatever reason(s), this is where I need to be.   
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 06:42:54 am by NorthStar »


Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #130 on: October 10, 2019, 05:32:25 pm »
Still waiting for proof of all these 5m a month or 2.5m for 25 hours of week jobs that basically grow on trees in Korea in the middle of a multi-year recession.

All the people who showed enough initiative to PM me know by now. Is this how you get jobs as well, by waiting around expecting people to hand you things on a plate?

One guy on Waygook PM'ing people about illegal teaching doesn't prove anything. Lying about nonexistant jobs is a weird way to troll.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 pm
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4122

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #131 on: October 10, 2019, 06:52:01 pm »
This Seoul mom makes 2570USD a week in her spare time. Click here for details!


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3939

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam


  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 627

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Munsan
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #133 on: October 10, 2019, 07:55:01 pm »


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3939

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #134 on: October 11, 2019, 04:29:58 am »
Another one... 2.5-3mil

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=78080

And another @ 2.5

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=78076

3.3 inclusive of housing (letís say 2.8 plus 500k housing)

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=78051

These jobs are around. Mind you, there are also plenty of 2.1/2.2 - 2.5 offers there as well that I didnít post...mostly because getting 2.5 at those places would be based almost solely on your negotiation skills.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3521

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #135 on: October 11, 2019, 06:07:06 am »
Remember waygo0k, you're responding to this:

Still waiting for proof of all these 5m a month or 2.5m for 25 hours of week jobs that basically grow on trees in Korea in the middle of a multi-year recession.

...so posting 2.5 mil jobs that are 40+ hours a week doesn't count.

How about telling us about the 5m a month jobs, too?


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3939

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #136 on: October 11, 2019, 06:49:29 am »
??????

Those jobs are clearly 22-25 (maximum 30) TEACHING hours per week.

Do you read?

maximum 22.5-25 teaching hours a week (Teacher will teach a maximum of 30 classes of 45-50 minutes) and work 5 days a week (Monday through Friday).
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=78080

Working hours will be 40 hours per week, (9:30-6:30 M-F with lunch break) and teaching hours about 25 hours per week
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=78051

The other ones only mentioned their working hours...which I'm willing to bet is 10-15hrs longer than their teaching hours.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 07:32:28 am by waygo0k »


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3939

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #137 on: October 11, 2019, 07:37:23 am »
And just to be extra petty  :P :laugh: :P

Salary : 2.4 ~ 2.7 M KRW per month (based on qualifications and teaching experience)

Teaching hours : Maximum of 30 hours per week (usually betweeen 25~27 hours per week)

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=78038

Full-Time Teaching Hours = 5 hours [MWF], 6hours [TTh]

Salary Range : Starting 2.4mil for Full-Time based on credentials & experience

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=77982



  • Colburnnn
  • Veteran

    • 112

    • August 10, 2015, 05:52:37 pm
    • South Korea
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #138 on: October 11, 2019, 07:38:33 am »
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=78100

2.5 mil

I've heard that is a pretty good school...

Vacation: Of Course! It's against the law not to give it. (So we give you the bare minimum 10 days)


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3939

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Do you regret leaving/not leaving Korea?
« Reply #139 on: October 11, 2019, 07:47:28 am »
If you manage to get one of these 2.5mil jobs PLUS a part time gig that pays 1.5mil to 2mil per month...I'm sure you'll be able to afford 10 days vacation plus any amount of unpaid days you want.