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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2019, 05:35:15 pm »
why are workers let go at such an early age, anyway? i used to teach the CEO of Jaguar in korea, and he was coming up to "retirement age"... but he was only 40-something. he was worried about his future. it was really weird. makes no sense
Might have to do with recent history. Not that long ago, like early-80s, Korea's life expectancy was only like 65 years old. Go back to the late 60s it was 60.

That's why so many Koreans want to be public servants (like teachers). You don't retire until like 63, and the pension is pretty good. You trade higher salary in the private sector for a longer, virtually guaranteed, life-time employment.

But how many Korean public school teachers have you met that were over the age of say 40? It seemed to me that most of them were late 20s to late 30s. It seemed the same in big cities or in rural areas. All the young people want to live in cities so lots of city teachers are young, but they also don't have much experience yet so they tend to be sent out to the rural areas just as often.

I worked with a few teachers in their 50's but they were pretty rare. It seems like the Korean education system pushes out older people just like the corporate sector. Yes the VP's and Principals are always really old but that is 2 people in the entire school. Pretty much the only other older people were the cafeteria ladies, the cleaning lady and the ajusshis who did odd jobs like driving buses, gardening, repairs, security duty, etc.
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  • oglop
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    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2019, 06:12:45 pm »
why are workers let go at such an early age, anyway? i used to teach the CEO of Jaguar in korea, and he was coming up to "retirement age"... but he was only 40-something. he was worried about his future. it was really weird. makes no sense
Might have to do with recent history. Not that long ago, like early-80s, Korea's life expectancy was only like 65 years old. Go back to the late 60s it was 60.

That's why so many Koreans want to be public servants (like teachers). You don't retire until like 63, and the pension is pretty good. You trade higher salary in the private sector for a longer, virtually guaranteed, life-time employment.
yeah you could be on to something there.

and i've worked with a lot of older teachers in public schools. however, i'd say that it's usually women who work at elementary schools, and most of them will eventually get pregnant, not many returning to work. that's why you see so many younger women there (i think)

you generally get more male teachers at middle/high schools. a lot of them are older too


  • gogators!
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2019, 08:18:15 pm »
why are workers let go at such an early age, anyway? i used to teach the CEO of Jaguar in korea, and he was coming up to "retirement age"... but he was only 40-something. he was worried about his future. it was really weird. makes no sense
Might have to do with recent history. Not that long ago, like early-80s, Korea's life expectancy was only like 65 years old. Go back to the late 60s it was 60.

That's why so many Koreans want to be public servants (like teachers). You don't retire until like 63, and the pension is pretty good. You trade higher salary in the private sector for a longer, virtually guaranteed, life-time employment.

But how many Korean public school teachers have you met that were over the age of say 40? It seemed to me that most of them were late 20s to late 30s. It seemed the same in big cities or in rural areas. All the young people want to live in cities so lots of city teachers are young, but they also don't have much experience yet so they tend to be sent out to the rural areas just as often.

I worked with a few teachers in their 50's but they were pretty rare. It seems like the Korean education system pushes out older people just like the corporate sector. Yes the VP's and Principals are always really old but that is 2 people in the entire school. Pretty much the only other older people were the cafeteria ladies, the cleaning lady and the ajusshis who did odd jobs like driving buses, gardening, repairs, security duty, etc.
If you retire in your 50s as a teacher, that's 30 years of teaching. They're tired of teaching, the students have changed, etc. Plus there can be worries about getting their lump sum payout from the government once it gets to a certain size.

But one of the perks of teaching--a stable job--is you don't get forced out like you would at a chaebol.

And if their spouse works, they're probably retiring as millionaires or better.


  • pkjh
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2019, 06:17:44 pm »
But how many Korean public school teachers have you met that were over the age of say 40? It seemed to me that most of them were late 20s to late 30s. It seemed the same in big cities or in rural areas. All the young people want to live in cities so lots of city teachers are young, but they also don't have much experience yet so they tend to be sent out to the rural areas just as often.

I worked with a few teachers in their 50's but they were pretty rare. It seems like the Korean education system pushes out older people just like the corporate sector. Yes the VP's and Principals are always really old but that is 2 people in the entire school. Pretty much the only other older people were the cafeteria ladies, the cleaning lady and the ajusshis who did odd jobs like driving buses, gardening, repairs, security duty, etc.
A lot, probably at least half the teachers at schools I've been at are over 40, and a lot are over 50. Full-time public school teachers are tenured. They'd have to do something criminal for a public school teacher to be fired. And even then good chance they'll keep their salary.

I'm curious as to where you've taught to think that over-40 teachers are rare...

and i've worked with a lot of older teachers in public schools. however, i'd say that it's usually women who work at elementary schools, and most of them will eventually get pregnant, not many returning to work. that's why you see so many younger women there (i think)
Pregnant teachers do comeback. Thing is you might not notice, because often they'll be transferred to a new school, after their 3/5 year limit at a school (time spend on maternity leave counts as time at a school).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 06:22:06 pm by pkjh »


  • oglop
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2019, 06:39:40 pm »
yeah, true. public schools seem really good with maternity leave too


Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2019, 06:48:43 am »
yeah, true. public schools seem really good with maternity leave too

Generally three months from the teachers I work with.  You can take longer off but it has to be agreed with the P and VP, but for less pay.  I have a former co-teacher who is in her late thirties who has two kids, 6 and 9.  At the moment, she is taking a year off as maternity leave which she can do.  So Korea does seem to be catching up with the west with regards to maternity leave. 


  • oglop
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2019, 07:40:20 am »
saw this article the other day

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49564467

look at the graph. something seem....strange to you?


Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2019, 07:49:45 am »
yeah, true. public schools seem really good with maternity leave too

Generally three months from the teachers I work with.  You can take longer off but it has to be agreed with the P and VP, but for less pay.  I have a former co-teacher who is in her late thirties who has two kids, 6 and 9.  At the moment, she is taking a year off as maternity leave which she can do.  So Korea does seem to be catching up with the west with regards to maternity leave. 



By the west, I assume you don't mean the USA...  because there isn't much maternity leave in the "richest and greatest country on earth".  Lucky to get a month unpaid,


  • pkjh
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2019, 08:06:22 am »
yeah, true. public schools seem really good with maternity leave too

Generally three months from the teachers I work with.  You can take longer off but it has to be agreed with the P and VP, but for less pay.  I have a former co-teacher who is in her late thirties who has two kids, 6 and 9.  At the moment, she is taking a year off as maternity leave which she can do.  So Korea does seem to be catching up with the west with regards to maternity leave. 
In the public sector it's great. But good luck trying to take leave in the private sector. On paper Korea looks good, but good luck being a man in Samsung trying to take maternity leave. Korea needs a case that goes to the courts like the one in Japan now. Or the government can go hardcore, and force companies to allow their employees to take leave without being punished by the company.


  • pkjh
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    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2019, 08:12:14 am »
saw this article the other day

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49564467

look at the graph. something seem....strange to you?
On paper Korea, and Japan, have good rules. But the private sector rarely allows men to take advantage of it. The government should penalize companies that penalize men for taking paternal leave.


Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2019, 08:24:40 am »
yeah, true. public schools seem really good with maternity leave too

Generally three months from the teachers I work with.  You can take longer off but it has to be agreed with the P and VP, but for less pay.  I have a former co-teacher who is in her late thirties who has two kids, 6 and 9.  At the moment, she is taking a year off as maternity leave which she can do.  So Korea does seem to be catching up with the west with regards to maternity leave. 
In the public sector it's great. But good luck trying to take leave in the private sector. On paper Korea looks good, but good luck being a man in Samsung trying to take maternity leave. Korea needs a case that goes to the courts like the one in Japan now. Or the government can go hardcore, and force companies to allow their employees to take leave without being punished by the company.

Absolutely.  I have a friend who works for Kyobo Insurance and he had his first baby last year, and I think he took off 3 days for the birth and then after that he went back to working his usual 6 days a week 8am-9/10pm.  For the three or so weeks that the mother and baby were in the post-natal centre he travelled there (50kms) after work to sleep with them and then back to work the next morning.  Obviously, he has the 'legal paternity leave' but I doubt he would ever take it for fear of affecting his promotion or whatever.  I suppose things like promotion would be the most difficult thing to prove if it went to court.  Crap state of affairs. 


  • oglop
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2019, 10:01:13 am »
yeah, true. public schools seem really good with maternity leave too

Generally three months from the teachers I work with.  You can take longer off but it has to be agreed with the P and VP, but for less pay.  I have a former co-teacher who is in her late thirties who has two kids, 6 and 9.  At the moment, she is taking a year off as maternity leave which she can do.  So Korea does seem to be catching up with the west with regards to maternity leave. 
In the public sector it's great. But good luck trying to take leave in the private sector. On paper Korea looks good, but good luck being a man in Samsung trying to take maternity leave. Korea needs a case that goes to the courts like the one in Japan now. Or the government can go hardcore, and force companies to allow their employees to take leave without being punished by the company.
yep. but i bet most of the people who read that article thought, "wow, japan and korea must be great places to work!"


Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2019, 12:10:09 pm »
I don't feel like reading through this whole thread, just stepping in to say that I was always taught that you need to have an equivalent of 1 million dollars in savings and assets in order to be able to retire and not have to work after 65, even in the U.S. This is of course under the assumption that you have your home and vehicles paid off, and that all of your kids are grown and financially supporting themselves. It's also based on the assumption that you're not living somewhere where the local/property taxes and living expenses are well above the national average *cough*California*cough*.

That's why I was also taught not to depend on 401K and to make investments elsewhere.


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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2019, 12:36:42 pm »
I don't feel like reading through this whole thread, just stepping in to say that I was always taught that you need to have an equivalent of 1 million dollars in savings and assets in order to be able to retire and not have to work after 65, even in the U.S. This is of course under the assumption that you have your home and vehicles paid off, and that all of your kids are grown and financially supporting themselves. It's also based on the assumption that you're not living somewhere where the local/property taxes and living expenses are well above the national average *cough*California*cough*.

That's why I was also taught not to depend on 401K and to make investments elsewhere.
That was also written when interest rates allowed for a decent low-risk return.


  • stoat
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2019, 12:52:28 pm »
I don't feel like reading through this whole thread, just stepping in to say that I was always taught that you need to have an equivalent of 1 million dollars in savings and assets in order to be able to retire and not have to work after 65, even in the U.S. This is of course under the assumption that you have your home and vehicles paid off, and that all of your kids are grown and financially supporting themselves. It's also based on the assumption that you're not living somewhere where the local/property taxes and living expenses are well above the national average *cough*California*cough*.

That's why I was also taught not to depend on 401K and to make investments elsewhere.

Figures like that you hear bandied about probably originate from companies or people who have a vested interest in getting others to invest or save more. You can easily work out how much you'll need for your own retirement by yourself. Like i said before it's not brain surgery/rocket science. E.g in uk small house paid for plus say a grand a month to live off can be got for much less than a million dollars
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 12:56:22 pm by stoat »


Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2019, 01:18:20 pm »
The reality is this:  older people are richer.  Why? Because they have lived longer and if anyone has some decent sense to save, they would have been saving longer therefore have more money.   It's not unusual.  It's a very normal thing in life that you get richer the older you get.  So if you've  been working 30-40 years, you'd have more wealth accumulated than someone who is in their 20s having only worked a few years.

Now since we can't live 200 years and be millionaires naturally, what most families do is get rich off their parents.  Whatever your parents have built or accumulated is often passed on to their children. 

For example, I know a lot of korean families that operate this way.  The son or daughter is given a huge asset in real estate/property/business that the parents paid off or built up and it gives you a huge injection of wealth as if you were the one having lived and worked already for 50 years but be only in your 30s or 40s.    When I first came to Korea, in my town, there was a small mom and pop hardware store.  It was pretty dingy and old fashioned.  But just a couple years ago, the son who is now grown up has taken over the business and they tore down the small old hardware shop and acquired more land and built a new hardware store along with a 4 story building where they rent out a dozen rooms.    Where did he get the money to do this ?   Obviously it was handed down from what his father (and borrowed money from the banks) had built and accumulated his whole life doing the hardware store.   Now the son is set up well to continue this job and now expand real estate property and get into renting out units, he'll be even richer than his father was.

When this man hands it over eventually to his own son (who is only about 10 years old right now), he'll be even richer and will probably be able to acquire 3 or 4 more properties and this cycle continues.  I tutored this son who is about 10 and kept thinking to myself, man this kid is gonna be RICH and SET UP WELL for life.   Sure wish I had that set up.

Most people can't just start building their own apartments and renting out units.  The real estate properties they have are most likely handed down or started from their grandfather who handed it over to father and then to son etc.

My parents in Canada have a property valued at 700k.  If the day comes when they are no longer here, that property would be split with my sibling and we'd most likely get 300K each (after deductions, fees, taxes).   300K in "savings" would normally take me 12-15 years to it but receiving that injection of wealth because of what my parents had accumulated in their lifetime is not how you'd want to get rich but that's usually how it goes and should be.  If you have children and you pass away, wouldn't you want your $1 million in savings passed onto them?  As this happens generation after generation, you should naturally become millionaires.  Of course not everyone has family that does this.  A lot of families don't leave much behind (because you'd have 10 kids and splitting it between 10 kids leaves very little for each) and each generation is just sort of starting from scratch each time and that's kind of a poor way to build wealth (unless we could live 200+ years).    But now most families have only 2 children or less which means each generation inheriting parents wealth is going to be massive and you should start seeing millionaires become the NORM in the next couple generations. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 01:26:53 pm by fruitloops »


  • kyndo
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2019, 02:03:53 pm »
To be fair, Trudeau isnít doing that well at a young 47.

Nor Macron at 41.


10th most popular Canadian prime minister (out of 23) isn't terrible. Not great, but not terrible.
    And by some accounts, Macron's approval rating has rebounded significantly since his 2018 nadir. Of course, other accounts strongly disagree, which just goes to show how useful independant polls are.  :rolleyes:



Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2019, 04:22:09 pm »
I don't feel like reading through this whole thread, just stepping in to say that I was always taught that you need to have an equivalent of 1 million dollars in savings and assets in order to be able to retire and not have to work after 65, even in the U.S. This is of course under the assumption that you have your home and vehicles paid off, and that all of your kids are grown and financially supporting themselves. It's also based on the assumption that you're not living somewhere where the local/property taxes and living expenses are well above the national average *cough*California*cough*.

That's why I was also taught not to depend on 401K and to make investments elsewhere.

Figures like that you hear bandied about probably originate from companies or people who have a vested interest in getting others to invest or save more.

Nope, this was in high school, lmao, as part of my finances class.

I think they were taking general maintenance costs into consideration, too. Cars inevitably break down. Pipes get old. Pests make nests in and eat away at homes. Etc.

People also really underestimate property taxes in many areas. There are lots of stories of retired folks losing their homes because they couldn't keep up with the taxes.

The rest had to do with rising costs of living/inflation (you want a cushion, you can't base general expenses on current costs -- utilities, food, and other amenities are a lot more expensive now then they were 30 years ago).

And of course general quality of life things were also considered, too, of being able to pursue some interests or hobbies.


  • L I
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2019, 04:40:21 pm »
But aging guys with not enough saved up like to insist they do because to accept otherwise would be a blow to their ego.

So their assertions are really not unbiased.



  • stoat
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Re: You need a billion won to retire in Korea?
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2019, 04:40:31 pm »
Quote
Nope, this was in high school, lmao, as part of my finances class.

Well, I said 'originate'.  Facts' people learn in High School usually originate from somewhere else.  Stuff kids learn about climate change probably comes from organisations that have a vested interest in climate change. Not being a denier by the way, just saying. It's probably like the units of alcohol advice in reverse - doctors set it at whatever it is a week assuming people are going to drink double.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 06:20:16 pm by stoat »