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  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2791

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
American Factory
« on: August 30, 2019, 08:08:06 am »
Has anyone else watched the new documentary on Netflix, American Factory?

It's about a GM plant that closed down in Ohio about 10 years ago and a Chinese Auto glass maker, Fuyao, coming in and re purposing the factory and hiring back a few thousand workers.

Depressing. What real future do blue collar workers have, at least in North America? But i'd say this would be at least somewhat similar across the developed world. Automation is just sucking up more and more jobs every year.

Are labour laws in America that useless? That people can be fired for associating with unions? Or for not preforming to some seemingly vague or arbitrary target? Or complaining about unsafe working environments? I know Unions have a checkered history in the US with ties to organised crime etc, but, Jesus,

Obviously the Chinese factory would have been ready for the cameras, and put the best workers in visible places. Especially when they  were doing the para-military morning roll call. But even so, the comparison between the Chinese workers and the Americans was stark. The Americans were almost all, overweight, slovenly and just looked checked out.

I guess it's kind of  inspiring (although that's not the right word) to hear that the Chinese workers work 6 days a week, only have one holiday a year, often only see their families, as in wife and kids, once a year etc etc. But these basic worker's rights, like the 40 hour work week, piss breaks, worker safety, were fought for by our grandfathers fathers. They got their heads cracked in for us to have these rights. Importing Chinese systems wholesale into the Midwest and just expecting them to work with American workers.... And then having to have gratitude, because it's true that not many companies are lining up to open operations in Dayton, Ohio. So if you complain too much and unionize they threaten to shut down and move back to China. So you have to swallow it and accept half the pay you were on before, working in 60-70 degree Celsius  rooms, with unrealistic targets, knowing that the robot arm they are unpacking is going to be taking over your job next month anyway.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


  • VanIslander
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Re: American Factory
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 08:24:12 am »
60 degree celcius rooms?


  • zola
  • The Legend

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    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: American Factory
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2019, 08:36:08 am »
Part of the glass making process requires a lot of heat and a furnace. The guys working that section were having to spend time in an area that got up to the hot or hotter.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


Re: American Factory
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 11:43:21 am »
This is what happens when you have totally free global markets and refuse to ever stand up to countries simply because they have a large market. Free Markets only work when everyone plays by the same rules sets and has a relatively equal standard of living. Disrupt either of those, and especially both, and then you'll get exploitation and failures of some kind.


  • gogators!
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Re: American Factory
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2019, 03:38:52 am »
This is what happens when you have totally free global markets and refuse to ever stand up to countries simply because they have a large market. Free Markets only work when everyone plays by the same rules sets and has a relatively equal standard of living. Disrupt either of those, and especially both, and then you'll get exploitation and failures of some kind.
What BS! That;s not how markets work.

If SK had played by the rules, where would it and you by extension be today?

If everyone played by the same rules. trump, for instance, would have been out of business long ago. Bankruptcy doesn't mean the same thing for the rich and big corporations as it does for the average worker. Look at one of your boy;s favorite industries, coal, and see how the CEOs make out when the company goes bust and the miners lose their jobs and more.

Why are you so hellbent on displaying your ignorance?


Re: American Factory
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2019, 06:17:10 am »
Here in your native New Zealand it's not much better, zola. Plenty of foreign-owned businesses here that get away with murder because they buy off NZ politicians. Plenty of shitty factory work mostly done by hardworking immigrants who constantly get shit on by kiwis and NZ politicians seeking a scapegoat for their own problems. Workplace safety rules are often a joke because of the kiwi "she'll be right" attitude. Seems like kiwis think manual labor should be dangerous and done recklessly rather than methodically and safely, probably because it's a country with a rural past and people haven't grown out of a macho farmworker mentality. Unions seem to be pretty worthless here, unlike in the US where they provide so many benefits and protections that most US employers refuse to have anything to do with them. Based on my work experience in NZ and the US I'd say that US employers are way more concerned with safety, and working conditions are much more relaxed. In NZ everyone is expected to rush around and they end up doing a crappier job. Kind of similar to Korean work conditions. At least in NZ everyone gets 4 weeks paid vacation though.

In the US most young people will go to college if they can and escape to a big city where they can get a job that actually pays well. They're not going to stay home in Dayton or wherever and try to make it work on minimum wage unless they want to be an Oxycontin statistic.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 08:26:43 am by MayorHaggar »
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 pm
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • zola
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Re: American Factory
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2019, 12:06:36 pm »
Here in your native New Zealand it's not much better, zola. Plenty of foreign-owned businesses here that get away with murder because they buy off NZ politicians. Plenty of shitty factory work mostly done by hardworking immigrants who constantly get shit on by kiwis and NZ politicians seeking a scapegoat for their own problems. Workplace safety rules are often a joke because of the kiwi "she'll be right" attitude. Seems like kiwis think manual labor should be dangerous and done recklessly rather than methodically and safely, probably because it's a country with a rural past and people haven't grown out of a macho farmworker mentality. Unions seem to be pretty worthless here, unlike in the US where they provide so many benefits and protections that most US employers refuse to have anything to do with them. Based on my work experience in NZ and the US I'd say that US employers are way more concerned with safety, and working conditions are much more relaxed. In NZ everyone is expected to rush around and they end up doing a crappier job. Kind of similar to Korean work conditions. At least in NZ everyone gets 4 weeks paid vacation though.

In the US most young people will go to college if they can and escape to a big city where they can get a job that actually pays well. They're not going to stay home in Dayton or wherever and try to make it work on minimum wage unless they want to be an Oxycontin statistic.

Which is why I said "But i'd say this would be at least somewhat similar across the developed world." The NZ economy has massive problems. Except, factory jobs? Where are these "plenty" of factory jobs. Seeing as what little industrial base did exist basically died in the 80s and 90s. And if you think OSH is shoddy now you should have seen it 20 years ago. I worked at a freezing works in 1999 and people were getting maimed on a daily basis.

Anyway, I recommend the documentary to everyone. It's a great film.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


Re: American Factory
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2019, 01:33:52 pm »
There's a lot more factory work in NZ than the US when you account for population. Lots of warehouse jobs and other blue-collar shit jobs that don't really exist in the US anymore.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 pm
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • gogators!
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Re: American Factory
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2019, 08:38:17 pm »
There's a lot more factory work in NZ than the US when you account for population. Lots of warehouse jobs and other blue-collar shit jobs that don't really exist in the US anymore.
No warehouse jobs in the US? Ever heard of Amazon?


Re: American Factory
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2019, 07:20:17 am »
There's a lot more factory work in NZ than the US when you account for population. Lots of warehouse jobs and other blue-collar shit jobs that don't really exist in the US anymore.
No warehouse jobs in the US? Ever heard of Amazon?

amazon only uses about 150,000 humans in those factories


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
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Re: American Factory
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2019, 07:46:25 am »
Per capita


Re: American Factory
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2019, 07:50:10 am »
some of the data here might help further our discussion:

https://www.brookings.edu/research/global-manufacturing-scorecard-how-the-us-compares-to-18-other-nations/

edit: see the Proportion of workforce employed in the manufacturing sector chart



  • gogators!
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Re: American Factory
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2019, 11:29:23 am »
There's a lot more factory work in NZ than the US when you account for population. Lots of warehouse jobs and other blue-collar shit jobs that don't really exist in the US anymore.
No warehouse jobs in the US? Ever heard of Amazon?

amazon only uses about 150,000 humans in those factories
A warehouse is not a factory.  BTW Amazon has more than 650,000 employees.  About 125,00 work in warehouses.



  • gogators!
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Re: American Factory
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2019, 11:41:19 am »
Quote
Obviously the Chinese factory would have been ready for the cameras, and put the best workers in visible places. Especially when they  were doing the para-military morning roll call. But even so, the comparison between the Chinese workers and the Americans was stark. The Americans were almost all, overweight, slovenly and just looked checked out.
Think back to the 70s and 80s when people tried not to buy an American car manufactured on a Monday (hangovers) or a Friday (eye on the clock, mind on the party).

That really turned a lot of people against unions and the workers they represented. Those workers were making damned good wages for being high school grads and were doing piss poor work in return while they were protected by the unions.

Management decisions didn't help either, of course, putting profit way before quality. 


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2791

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: American Factory
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2019, 01:59:04 pm »
There's a lot more factory work in NZ than the US when you account for population. Lots of warehouse jobs and other blue-collar shit jobs that don't really exist in the US anymore.
A factory manufactures or produces something. There really isn't much of anything of that left in NZ. Most of that kind of hands on blue collar work is connected to primary industries, like freezing works, saw mills etc. Warehouses aren't factory jobs. They are logistics and distribution. And yes there does seem to be a lot of those jobs. Most of the actual legitimate industrial work left would be classed light industrial things like food packing/bottling.
When I was a kid you could wear made in NZ clothes, shoes. There were even assembled in NZ cars. Can you imagine how inefficient that was. Honda would send all the parts and pieces for a new car to Thames were they would be put together by NZ workers. The quality was often worse than 10 year old imports for 10x the price.

Anyway, again my point, and the point of the documentary is that this is something is happening across the world. To a lesser extent it was interesting to see the cultural differences. There were scenes where i just thought its no wonder Asian manufacturing is taken over so much from everywhere else.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3939

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: American Factory
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2019, 12:30:37 pm »
Faaaaarking hell, how the mighty have fallen.

Iím barely 15mins into this film and all I can think of is how the roles were reversed barely 30-40 years ago. Back then it was the western gods getting their buttholes licked by poor Chinese workers.

Now itís the wealthy Chinese billionaire god getting his balls fondled by American workers down on their luck. All because they and their parents got sold out by super capitalists outsourcing jobs in exchange for higher profit margins.

The way the chairman overrode everyone and proclaimed the weather would be great in October for their open air concert, despite the locals knowing otherwise, but not being able to openly say so...faaaaaaark.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3939

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: American Factory
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2019, 12:51:30 pm »
Chairman and his puppet enforcer: Ooooh, you want unions?  GTF outta here!

With the drastic reduction in pay for staff compared to their previous jobs, the anti-union upper management, and other factors...this story has a teary end written all over it.