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I highly doubt youíd be able to identify the Burton Albion badge if it were sewn on those very same blazers. With or without a visible badge, itís clearly obvious those players are part of an organisation since theyíre all literally wearing identical outfits.
But without any identification as to what that organization is, its nowhere near as likely to draw attention. For all the average person knows, they might all work at the same hotel or bank.

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Again, you present another extremely poor example of two teams occupying the same city. Of course Celtic and Rangers squads go around Glasgow in team wear during official functions...both teams call the city home FFS.
That wasn't what the claim was. The claim was that sports rivalries =/= ethnic tensions. Often they DO involve ethnic tensions. Would Rangers be rolling through a Catholic neighborhood in full team bus and gear?

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why wouldnít they walk through the streets of Basque Country with their Spanish team mates in Spanish FA gear during official events?
Because many Basques don't see themselves as Spanish and view the Spanish government with displeasure. And that's before we get to Catalonia, which has an active secession movement that has seen mass protests and political leaders imprisoned.

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As long as both events are official team events...both sets of squads would be in full team wear. Thatís how itís done in the majority of sports around the world.
And just as often they'd be dressed casually.

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So in which sport would teams have a lot more down time again? Try not to pull things out of your arse this time
Again, the training for baseball is far different from football. Baseball is a game of repetitive motion and skill. It is much closer to bowling, darts, and golf in its nature. Hence why there are fat baseball players.

Football requires a much higher level of physical conditioning. It is also much more tactically focused and you can have vastly different playstyles  from match to match. A rainy day in Stoke match is going to be much different compared to playing a Top-6 side or whomever.

Baseball you do the same thing every day. You do the same thing you've been doing since 6 years old. Not much changes game to game except which pitcher you're facing and usually that is covered in film. A baseball player's skills do not change if they train for 1 hour a day vs. 4 hours. In fact, given the nature of the sport, for pitchers especially, rest and not-training are more important. You can play a game of baseball and literally never break a sweat.

This is why the 1986 New York Mets were able to go out binge drinking after every game, wake up hung over and do lines of blow and then go out and play. You couldn't do that in football if you played every day.

There's more to the equation than just "X number of games multiplied by duration of each game" to determine how much training and downtime is involved. Also U-18 tournament baseball might be far different, particularly for kids.

Why is it so hard to just admit that this kind of stuff happens in other countries to? I admit that not feeling safe has no business in sport.


Yes why would the Japanese fear overzealous Korean nationalism?
Have their been any threats made against the team? Mass protests planned?

We have this one incident, which was condemned by the public, and which, according to THE VICTIM, was not political in nature, but was instead a case of a drunken sexual harasser, turned violent.

I understand Japanese parents wanting the team to take every precaution (if nothing else, this whole trip is a liability nightmare), but let's not pretend there's some sort of mass wave of violence. If anything, I've noticed that Korean citizens are really taking care to emphasize Japanese citizens and tourists vs. the Japanese government and you hear this mentioned repeatedly.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3858

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
DM, for pete’s sake please stop pulling random and incorrect shit from your arse and trying to pass it off as fact.

Binge drinking and drugs were and continue to be a staple diet of football players’ lives. The Man Utd team of the 1980s were notorious for their binge sessions on before and on match days.

Paul Gascoine, George Best, Wayne Rooney, Ronaldinho...all heavy drinkers who have been snapped at bars and clubs immediately before or after playing.

As for training schedules:

Once spring training camps begin, the minor league player has traveled from his home to join his teammates for a full scale effort. Players report to the complex at around 7 am.

They are provided with a healthy breakfast, and their day begins. Maybe a morning lifting session, a team stretch around 9:30 am, fundamental and skills training until 11:45.
After lunch, they play games every day at around 1 pm.

If that ends by 4 pm, they often lift and train afterwards. “It’s early mornings and it’s all day,” says King. “It’s a full day. A long day. And that’s every day. Seven days a week.”


https://ismconnect.com/inside-the-preparation-of-a-minor-league-baseball-player/

DM..please stop making up random shit to justify the things you say.

And this is just the stuff I’ve bothered to clarify.


DM, for peteís sake please stop pulling random and incorrect shit from your arse and trying to pass it off as fact.

Binge drinking and drugs were and continue to be a staple diet of football playersí lives. The Man Utd team of the 1980s were notorious for their binge sessions on before and on match days.

Paul Gascoine, George Best, Wayne Rooney, Ronaldinho...all heavy drinkers who have been snapped at bars and clubs immediately before or after playing.

As for training schedules:

Once spring training camps begin, the minor league player has traveled from his home to join his teammates for a full scale effort. Players report to the complex at around 7 am.

They are provided with a healthy breakfast, and their day begins. Maybe a morning lifting session, a team stretch around 9:30 am, fundamental and skills training until 11:45.
After lunch, they play games every day at around 1 pm.

If that ends by 4 pm, they often lift and train afterwards. ďItís early mornings and itís all day,Ē says King. ďItís a full day. A long day. And thatís every day. Seven days a week.Ē


https://ismconnect.com/inside-the-preparation-of-a-minor-league-baseball-player/

DM..please stop making up random shit to justify the things you say.

And this is just the stuff Iíve bothered to clarify.

Dude, you're talking Spring Training, not the regular season and the dog days of summer.

Also, I never said that football players didn't occasionally binge. Note the words "if they played every day",

You're the one trying to pretend that "tolerant" Europe is some bastion of acceptance and sporting non-violence while making Korea out to be some sort of unique evil. 


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 506

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
I never thought I would read that Japan's bloody occupation of Korea is a petty issue.

I guess I'll soon learn in this forum that it's petty to show outrage at the holocaust, slavery and a myriad of horrible events that occurred.  Americans try to make other Americans feel guilty about the treatment of Native Americans, but Korea is just petty for boycotting a country that ravaged them?  So strange here....


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5070

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
I never thought I would read that Japan's bloody occupation of Korea is a petty issue.

I guess I'll soon learn in this forum that it's petty to show outrage at the holocaust, slavery and a myriad of horrible events that occurred.  Americans try to make other Americans feel guilty about the treatment of Native Americans, but Korea is just petty for boycotting a country that ravaged them?  So strange here....

I don't think anyone is saying what Japan did was petty.

What I would like to say it isn't right for parents to indoctrinate their children into hating Japan.  The people that did the foul deeds are dead and gone and the U18 Team is hardly responsible for the atrocities and should be treated as such.

I have said many times in the past that what Japan did wasn't limited to Korea. I cited the case of the Philippines that suffered as much if not more than Koreans did, yet they have found it in their hearts to forgive and move on and today they are great friends.

I am NOT condoning what the Japanese did, I will never do that but it's time to move on and build the future.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1542

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
I have said many times in the past that what Japan did wasn't limited to Korea. I cited the case of the Philippines that suffered as much if not more than Koreans did, yet they have found it in their hearts to forgive and move on and today they are great friends.
I'm willing to bet a few chocopies that lot of it has to do with the massive difference in economics. The Philippines needs Japan more than Japan needs the Philippines. Also, a good chunk of the history after WWII the Philippines was run by a dictator.

From that 1965 treaty until the 90s, Korea barely made a peep about Japanese atrocities. Most likely because Korea was mostly run by dictators. Now that Korea is a democracy, and much much richer they can weather the economic consequences of retaliation.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5070

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
The Philippines needs Japan more than Japan needs the Philippines.

That well may be, but I can assure you that Japan makes big bucks from the Philippines. Most of the vehicles, trucks, cars and motorbikes are Japanese and most of their electronics and appliances too. So don't underestimate that.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 506

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
I never thought I would read that Japan's bloody occupation of Korea is a petty issue.

I guess I'll soon learn in this forum that it's petty to show outrage at the holocaust, slavery and a myriad of horrible events that occurred.  Americans try to make other Americans feel guilty about the treatment of Native Americans, but Korea is just petty for boycotting a country that ravaged them?  So strange here....

I don't think anyone is saying what Japan did was petty.

What I would like to say it isn't right for parents to indoctrinate their children into hating Japan.  The people that did the foul deeds are dead and gone and the U18 Team is hardly responsible for the atrocities and should be treated as such.

I have said many times in the past that what Japan did wasn't limited to Korea. I cited the case of the Philippines that suffered as much if not more than Koreans did, yet they have found it in their hearts to forgive and move on and today they are great friends.

I am NOT condoning what the Japanese did, I will never do that but it's time to move on and build the future.

I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5070

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1542

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 04:02:45 pm by pkjh »


  • confusedsafferinkorea
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5070

    • October 08, 2010, 01:02:32 pm
    • Zhubei, Hsinchu Province, Taiwan
    more
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.
There is no known medical cure for stupidity!


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1542

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.
Huge difference of what they can do socially, culturally... in 35 years, as compared to 3.


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 506

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.

It is a comparison game.  Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?  You can't eliminate the level of grievances to suit your argument.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 01:29:54 pm by leaponover »


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2742

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.

It is a comparison game.  Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?  You can't eliminate the level of grievances to suit your argument.
Yes, but if you are going to play that comparison game, you will find that Korea is way down the list when compared to other similar historical atrocities. Even looking at victims of Imperial Japan the only thing that marks Korea out is the relative longer length (35 years) of colonial occupation. Indochina, Dutch East Indies, Philippines had similar or greater deaths related to the Japanese within a 3 year period. Yet the grievance industry isn't part of the national consciousness like it is here. There indignation doesn't match the situation when compared to other countries.

This, for me, has always been the crux of the rampant victim mentality in Korea. Yes, Japan did absolutely heinous shit. But pick a country at random on the map and you will be able to find terrible shit that happened to them, or a group of them also. Often many magnitudes worse that what happened in Korea. Korea's have created this national narrative that they are a nation of victims. Someone posted a lecture once, here or reddit or somewhere, and the historian outlined that in fact Korea when compared to kingdoms, states, countries throughout history, Korea in all it's forms, had actually enjoyed longer periods of peace and sovereignty then other comparable places.

I lived in Ireland for a 2 years as that's where my dad is from and I've been back a bunch of times. I used to think the Irish were bad when it came to the "poor us" thing. They have absolutely nothing on Korea. You could go months in Ireland without someone bringing up the British. And there isn't the propaganda being rammed down your throat. The Irish were under British subjugation for hundreds of years, used as literal slaves. lost millions, had there culture systematically suppressed and for all intents and purposes had their language wiped out. If we are going to compare, why are the Irish able to handle it better than the Koreans??
Kpip! - Martin 2018


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3393

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?

Which is worse-  gf cheated on you... OR ... was faithful but a great great great grandmother she never met who passed away 75 years ago cheated a lot? And she didn't even apologize for the the actions of that woman. The nerve of her!


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 506

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?

Which is worse-  gf cheated on you... OR ... was faithful but a great great great grandmother she never met who passed away 75 years ago cheated a lot? And she didn't even apologize for the the actions of that woman. The nerve of her!

Yeah,  think you just proved we can put an end to the analogies.....


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3393

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Best not to credit or blame people for the actions of others.

Identity politics are lame.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3393

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Each person is an individual and thus should be judged by their own accomplishments, character, etc ... not skin color, ethnicity, location of birth, etc.


  • leaponover
  • Expert Waygook

    • 506

    • March 05, 2012, 12:08:16 pm
    • Iksan, S. Korea
I get that, but it's not that far removed.  I mean, when there are still children and grandchildren alive that were affected by it, it can still feel fresh for them.  I could see if we were talking about the past.  It's not going to disappear from the history books, and while I've been told that the history books are not 100% accurate (Whose countries are?), it's not like this is sudden news for them.

But the same applies to the Philippines and if they can find it in their hearts to forgive and move on, why can't Korea?
Japan occupied the Philippines for 3 years, compared to the 35 years of Korea.

Yes, but it all goes around WW2. When Japan was defeated nothing was left of Manila and many places. Anyway, it's not a comparing game, Japan did terrible things to many countries and yet, as I said the other countries chose to move on.

It is a comparison game.  Are you going to forgive your girlfriend for sleeping with your best friend, maybe.  Are you going to forgive her for sleeping with all of your friends?  You can't eliminate the level of grievances to suit your argument.
Yes, but if you are going to play that comparison game, you will find that Korea is way down the list when compared to other similar historical atrocities. Even looking at victims of Imperial Japan the only thing that marks Korea out is the relative longer length (35 years) of colonial occupation. Indochina, Dutch East Indies, Philippines had similar or greater deaths related to the Japanese within a 3 year period. Yet the grievance industry isn't part of the national consciousness like it is here. There indignation doesn't match the situation when compared to other countries.

This, for me, has always been the crux of the rampant victim mentality in Korea. Yes, Japan did absolutely heinous shit. But pick a country at random on the map and you will be able to find terrible shit that happened to them, or a group of them also. Often many magnitudes worse that what happened in Korea. Korea's have created this national narrative that they are a nation of victims. Someone posted a lecture once, here or reddit or somewhere, and the historian outlined that in fact Korea when compared to kingdoms, states, countries throughout history, Korea in all it's forms, had actually enjoyed longer periods of peace and sovereignty then other comparable places.

I lived in Ireland for a 2 years as that's where my dad is from and I've been back a bunch of times. I used to think the Irish were bad when it came to the "poor us" thing. They have absolutely nothing on Korea. You could go months in Ireland without someone bringing up the British. And there isn't the propaganda being rammed down your throat. The Irish were under British subjugation for hundreds of years, used as literal slaves. lost millions, had there culture systematically suppressed and for all intents and purposes had their language wiped out. If we are going to compare, why are the Irish able to handle it better than the Koreans??

You are confusing me.  You can only paint a national narrative of being victims if you aren't a victim.  They actually are.  Now how much they are milking it, I don't know.  But I think everyone is in agreement here they are victims.  There's nothing that needs to be painted about it.  It's fact.

I don't even think that's what Koreans are upset about.   At least that's not the way my wife explains it to me.  She tells me that Koreans are upset because they kidnapped and enslaved many of the best architects, poets and philosophers from Korea and used the women as sex slaves.  Japan has made general apologies, but when it comes to actually making reparations to those families and acknowledging those actual atrocities, Japan doesn't really follow through with the promises.  Instead they balk on them and then do something passive aggressive to battle it like putting Japanese flags on Dokdo or removing Korea from safe export lists.  It's like that apology you give someone because you think they want to hear it, but their actions say otherwise.

I'm not saying there's no pettiness to it at all, and maybe countries shouldn't engage the way two people do.  However, I leave you with this question.  If I'm a country that's currently thriving and has no need for any economic advantage, and I ravaged your land for 35 years, would I still be arguing about a tiny island that means very little in the grand scheme of things and my own scholars have already traced back to not belonging to me?  To me, those are not apologetic actions.