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Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« on: July 09, 2019, 08:50:37 am »
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/07/371_271918.html

A Korean Air pilot who asked for several alcoholic beverages during a flight, was punished later with only a verbal warning from the airline, while the chief flight attendant who reported the incident to the company was stripped of his post.

According to the carrier, Monday, on an Incheon-Amsterdam flight on Dec. 30, the pilot surnamed Kim asked a flight attendant to give him champagne in a paper cup for his welcome drink.

Kim's requests for alcoholic beverages did not stop there. A few hours into the flight, he once again asked the flight attendant to pour him some wine in a paper cup. The attendant told the pilot alcoholic drinks are prohibited during flights and reported this to the chief flight attendant.

The chief flight attendant briefed the co-pilot about the situation and asked him not to discuss the matter with Kim until the plane was on the ground, fearing an argument with the pilot could hinder the safety of the flight. However, the co-pilot did not wait and confronted Kim, who then complained to the chief flight attendant.

After landing in Amsterdam, the chief flight attendant and the co-pilot quarreled over the issue. The chief flight attendant made an official report about the incident to the company soon after.

Following an internal investigation, however, the company gave a verbal warning to Kim, and the chief flight attendant was demoted to a regular flight attendant.

"Kim continued to deny that he requested an alcoholic drink, and regardless of whether he requested it or not, he did not consume any alcoholic drinks," a Korean Air official said. "And the chief flight attendant was stripped of his post as he used abusive language toward the co-pilot during their heated argument."

The incident was not reported to the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, which is in charge of inspecting and managing airlines, raising suspicion the carrier tried to cover up the incident.

By law, operating an aircraft under the influence of alcohol could be punishable with up to three years in prison.

FLIGHT ATTENDANT DEMOTED FOR REPORTING THE INCIDENT.  OINK SITUATION EH?


  • LIC
  • Super Waygook

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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 02:23:11 pm »
This is unbelievable. It's also oh so very Korean.


  • Aristocrat
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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 05:18:45 pm »
This is unbelievable. It's also oh so very Korean.

Korean flight crew afraid of objecting to a more "senior" crew member. Where did I hear about that before? Oh yes, when a Korea on pilot crashed a Boeing 777 into the tarmac of San Francisco International Airport, injuring 180 people and killing 2.

Nevermind the lives of a few hundred people, whether they be teenagers drowning on a sinking ship, while a dozen boats do nothing but watch, or passengers in an airplane, never question the action or lack of action of your superior... Yes, very Korean, indeed.


  • oglop
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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 05:23:35 pm »
i miss the times when i used to be shocked by these types of stories


Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 07:04:32 pm »
This is unbelievable. It's also oh so very Korean.

Korean flight crew afraid of objecting to a more "senior" crew member. Where did I hear about that before? Oh yes, when a Korea on pilot crashed a Boeing 777 into the tarmac of San Francisco International Airport, injuring 180 people and killing 2.

Nevermind the lives of a few hundred people, whether they be teenagers drowning on a sinking ship, while a dozen boats do nothing but watch, or passengers in an airplane, never question the action or lack of action of your superior... Yes, very Korean, indeed.
You do realize that such problems occurred in the West as well with aircrews, right? The culture argument is a lazy one that people make, but when you look at the history of aviation, you will find these problems cropping up across all cultures. People don't like to argue and they have to work together. Everyone agrees that at the end of the day, the captain has final say. People think that starting an argument during a critical situation might exacerbate problems rather than alleviating them. A lot of airline pilots across the world are ex-military or are reservists, continuing said problems. Hence, why regardless of culture, you see these problems. At the end of the day the captain is the captain and there's only so far subordinates will go and its a delicate thing. This is one of the more recent examples, in 2011- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Air_Flight_6560

Quote
The first officer was aware that the aircraft was off course to the right and heading for the hill east of the airport. He tried multiple times to warn the captain, but in a way that failed to convey the urgency of the situation and make the captain change his course of action. After the ground proximity warning system issued a 'sink rate' warning, the captain finally commanded a go-around, but there was insufficient distance from terrain to avoid the collision.

Also, if you read the story, the flight attendant briefed the senior flight attendant (correct). The senior flight attendant then alerted the co-pilot (correct). The co-pilot immediately confronted the pilot (given that the pilot seemingly was new, the co-pilot might have been senior with the company and in flight time while the pilot was the captain of the flight). The pilot didn't drink at the flight. Some might say the co-pilot should have alerted the tower or halted the flight, but I doubt any of us or anyone in such an airline would have gone that far if the pilot had dropped it and didn't drink. At that point everything had resolved itself.

After they landed, there was some kind of confrontation between the CO-PILOT and the senior flight attendant. We don't know what was said, but if the SFA DID actually use abusive language and say something. Perhaps the co-pilot was female and the SFA had said something sexist. Certainly that would justify the demotion, yes? Notice how they did not use any gendered language when talking about the SFA and the co-pilot.

After this, the pilots union probably intervened and lawyers got involved and probably said something along the lines of "He was just joking, they shouldn't have taken him literally." Union union union. At that point it's down to a reprimand and something in his record.

Now, the justifiable criticism is this not being reported to the government. THAT is the story and that is where the focus should be.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 07:06:52 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


  • VanIslander
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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 10:19:14 pm »
Fly Tequila Air!

We'll get you there.
Or at least give it a shot.


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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2019, 02:36:45 am »
Did he invert the plane?


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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2019, 02:38:10 am »
This is unbelievable. It's also oh so very Korean.

Korean flight crew afraid of objecting to a more "senior" crew member. Where did I hear about that before? Oh yes, when a Korea on pilot crashed a Boeing 777 into the tarmac of San Francisco International Airport, injuring 180 people and killing 2.

Nevermind the lives of a few hundred people, whether they be teenagers drowning on a sinking ship, while a dozen boats do nothing but watch, or passengers in an airplane, never question the action or lack of action of your superior... Yes, very Korean, indeed.
You do realize that such problems occurred in the West as well with aircrews, right? The culture argument is a lazy one that people make, but when you look at the history of aviation, you will find these problems cropping up across all cultures. People don't like to argue and they have to work together. Everyone agrees that at the end of the day, the captain has final say. People think that starting an argument during a critical situation might exacerbate problems rather than alleviating them. A lot of airline pilots across the world are ex-military or are reservists, continuing said problems. Hence, why regardless of culture, you see these problems. At the end of the day the captain is the captain and there's only so far subordinates will go and its a delicate thing. This is one of the more recent examples, in 2011- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Air_Flight_6560

Quote
The first officer was aware that the aircraft was off course to the right and heading for the hill east of the airport. He tried multiple times to warn the captain, but in a way that failed to convey the urgency of the situation and make the captain change his course of action. After the ground proximity warning system issued a 'sink rate' warning, the captain finally commanded a go-around, but there was insufficient distance from terrain to avoid the collision.

Also, if you read the story, the flight attendant briefed the senior flight attendant (correct). The senior flight attendant then alerted the co-pilot (correct). The co-pilot immediately confronted the pilot (given that the pilot seemingly was new, the co-pilot might have been senior with the company and in flight time while the pilot was the captain of the flight). The pilot didn't drink at the flight. Some might say the co-pilot should have alerted the tower or halted the flight, but I doubt any of us or anyone in such an airline would have gone that far if the pilot had dropped it and didn't drink. At that point everything had resolved itself.

After they landed, there was some kind of confrontation between the CO-PILOT and the senior flight attendant. We don't know what was said, but if the SFA DID actually use abusive language and say something. Perhaps the co-pilot was female and the SFA had said something sexist. Certainly that would justify the demotion, yes? Notice how they did not use any gendered language when talking about the SFA and the co-pilot.

After this, the pilots union probably intervened and lawyers got involved and probably said something along the lines of "He was just joking, they shouldn't have taken him literally." Union union union. At that point it's down to a reprimand and something in his record.

Now, the justifiable criticism is this not being reported to the government. THAT is the story and that is where the focus should be.
Says the guy who likes to drink and drive.

Bottoms up!


  • Piggydee
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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2019, 07:25:38 am »
Wasn't there a whole Denzel Washington movie about him flying a plane drunk/hungover.  :laugh:

And plus last year wasn't there something with a Japanese pilot who blew way over the legal limit. 

It's not just a Korean thing.

If we are going to make this about culture I guess we should all be scared to fly to or from Germany since their pilots seem to be unstable and want to fly their planes into mountains (the Germanwings guy) 


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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2019, 07:46:35 am »
Wasn't there a whole Denzel Washington movie about him flying a plane drunk/hungover.  :laugh:

But that was the whole crux of the movie. He pulled off the impossible manoeuvre, (after an error that was 100% NOT his fault) so he saved countless lives BUT he's an alcoholic. He HAPPENED to have had 2 drinks while on the flight.

That's the moral conundrum. Any other pilot would have failed and everyone would be dead, but now only 1/3 of the people died but he was vlearly in violation of FAA rules. That's the issue.

It's not "Hey, baby, send some champagne up this way" in real life on a normal flight. :/
The joys of fauxtherhood


  • Datasapien
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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2019, 07:51:38 am »
If I can't drink on the job, they shouldn't be allowed to either  >:(
"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man." - Jebediah Springfield.


  • OnNut81
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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2019, 08:11:54 am »
DeMartino: After they landed, there was some kind of confrontation between the CO-PILOT and the senior flight attendant. We don't know what was said, but if the SFA DID actually use abusive language and say something. Perhaps the co-pilot was female and the SFA had said something sexist. Certainly that would justify the demotion, yes? Notice how they did not use any gendered language when talking about the SFA and the co-pilot.

After this, the pilots union probably intervened and lawyers got involved and probably said something along the lines of "He was just joking, they shouldn't have taken him literally." Union union union. At that point it's down to a reprimand and something in his record.

You're right.  We DON'Tknow what was said.  That, of course, won't stop you from writing what was said. And, in a way that slants towards it being a totally relatable common occurrence that should in no way reflect upon Korean culture.  More of your withering satire, I'm guessing?

The way in which the incident was dealt with is the alarming part.  Every now and then you do read about pilots from around the globe being unfit to fly due to drink.  You also then read about the police escorting them off the plane.  Having the flight attendant demoted for daring to show responsibility in this situation is a pretty Korean thing.  He should've just bowed politely and served that drink and kept his yap shut. 


Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2019, 12:43:23 pm »
You're right.  We DON'Tknow what was said.  That, of course, won't stop you from writing what was said. And, in a way that slants towards it being a totally relatable common occurrence that should in no way reflect upon Korean culture.  More of your withering satire, I'm guessing?
No, I didn't write what was said. You're making an assumption based on personal animus and poor reading comprehension. I was simply offering a possible scenario that fits the facts. There are a dozen others I could have postulated.

Quote
  Having the flight attendant demoted for daring to show responsibility in this situation is a pretty Korean thing.  He should've just bowed politely and served that drink and kept his yap shut.
Again, YOU are making an assumption. If indeed the SFA used abusive language, then he SHOULD have been demoted. On the other hand if he didn't and that was just retaliation for causing a problem, then yeah, it's a big issue.


  • OnNut81
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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2019, 01:26:44 pm »
You're right.  We DON'Tknow what was said.  That, of course, won't stop you from writing what was said. And, in a way that slants towards it being a totally relatable common occurrence that should in no way reflect upon Korean culture.  More of your withering satire, I'm guessing?
No, I didn't write what was said. You're making an assumption based on personal animus and poor reading comprehension. I was simply offering a possible scenario that fits the facts. There are a dozen others I could have postulated.

Quote
  Having the flight attendant demoted for daring to show responsibility in this situation is a pretty Korean thing.  He should've just bowed politely and served that drink and kept his yap shut.
Again, YOU are making an assumption. If indeed the SFA used abusive language, then he SHOULD have been demoted. On the other hand if he didn't and that was just retaliation for causing a problem, then yeah, it's a big issue.
You're right.  We DON'Tknow what was said.  That, of course, won't stop you from writing what was said. And, in a way that slants towards it being a totally relatable common occurrence that should in no way reflect upon Korean culture.  More of your withering satire, I'm guessing?
No, I didn't write what was said. You're making an assumption based on personal animus and poor reading comprehension. I was simply offering a possible scenario that fits the facts. There are a dozen others I could have postulated.

Quote
  Having the flight attendant demoted for daring to show responsibility in this situation is a pretty Korean thing.  He should've just bowed politely and served that drink and kept his yap shut.
Again, YOU are making an assumption. If indeed the SFA used abusive language, then he SHOULD have been demoted. On the other hand if he didn't and that was just retaliation for causing a problem, then yeah, it's a big issue.

But again, you went to the SFA using abusive language as your first possibility.  Since this is based on no fact or evidence whatsoever, why bother highlighting this possibility that just so happens to let them off the hook in regards to dangerous and irresponsible behavior?  If, as you mentioned, there are dozen other possibilities why didn't you go to equal lengths to present the flip side of the incident? 

My reaction to your posts is not based on any personal animus.  It's based on the fact that you run from thread to thread throwing out unsupported arguments that are often based on misdirection, strawmen and outright bulls*it. Or, as you now label it when called out, satire. 



Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2019, 03:45:14 pm »
Imagine having so little to do at work and nothing better to do in your leisure time that you would spend hours typing utter and complete bollocks on Waygook.
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 pm
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2019, 01:06:43 am »
But again, you went to the SFA using abusive language as your first possibility.  Since this is based on no fact or evidence whatsoever, why bother highlighting this possibility that just so happens to let them off the hook in regards to dangerous and irresponsible behavior? 
Because we already had one theory and people seemed to be settling on it despite it having no basis in fact either. Now that explanation certainly fits the facts, but it's not the only possible explanation. Why don't you apply the same standard to all the other theories?

Only an idiot would conclude that it's what happened. A smart person might say it's more or less likely something happened, but they wouldn't be certain and they wouldn't be upset at hearing alternative theories.

Quote
It's based on the fact that you run from thread to thread throwing out unsupported arguments that are often based on misdirection, strawmen and outright bulls*it. Or, as you now label it when called out, satire. 
Could my theory fit the available facts? If so, then it is just as reasonable to bring it up as any other theory. You seem to be of the opinion that only certain people and certain kinds of theories should be entertained and it isn't based on them possibly being true because they would fit in the available facts.

There is just as much to support my idea as there is a coverup. You only chose to focus on one side. You are not objective. Now if you said both my idea AND the idea that there is a coverup is BS because we don't have enough facts to even guess at possibilities, then fine. That's being consistent and objective. But you didn't do that.

I think you are personally invested in one narrative for this story and that is why you are responding so aggressively to any other possible explanation. Why is that?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 01:17:13 am by Mr.DeMartino »


Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2019, 01:07:17 am »
Imagine having so little to do at work and nothing better to do in your leisure time that you would spend hours typing utter and complete bollocks on Waygook.
Imagine being so out of touch with reality as to hallucinate that I am spending hours on Waygook.


Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2019, 07:28:02 am »
Imagine having so little to do at work and nothing better to do in your leisure time that you would spend hours typing utter and complete bollocks on Waygook.
Imagine being so out of touch with reality as to hallucinate that I am spending hours on Waygook.
imagine being me. just imagine it


  • OnNut81
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Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2019, 07:54:43 am »
Imagine having so little to do at work and nothing better to do in your leisure time that you would spend hours typing utter and complete bollocks on Waygook.
Imagine being so out of touch with reality as to hallucinate that I am spending hours on Waygook.

Seriously.  It was a real reach for him to come to that conclusion. 


Re: Korean Air pilots like to drink while flying it seems...
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2019, 11:13:37 am »
Imagine having so little to do at work and nothing better to do in your leisure time that you would spend hours typing utter and complete bollocks on Waygook.
Imagine being so out of touch with reality as to hallucinate that I am spending hours on Waygook.
I've brought this up with DeMartian before, but he just claimed to be able to type seven page essays in roughly 13 seconds. Personally I think he's a super-robot deployed by the Korean government to defend their online presence.

Mods, can we make him do a CAPTCHA test, just in case?