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  • SPQR
  • Veteran

    • 212

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada
You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« on: July 02, 2019, 02:45:28 pm »
Ninth level civil servants, the lowest, entry level positions, usually entailing
janitorial or catering work, make 28,000,000KRW per year.

To achieve this you need to make 2.33M/month.

I think the people considering moving to China or Japan have the right idea.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/07/181_271557.html
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 03:01:43 pm by SPQR »


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3390

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2019, 04:18:20 pm »
The average Korean salary is 3.17 million won a month. (Well, that's as of a while ago; not sure how much it's gone up since then.) The salary of unskilled laborers from third world countries working in Korea has gone way up recently, too. I saw some jobs for 2.8 million a month plus free food and free housing.


  • NorthStar
  • Super Waygook

    • 499

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2019, 04:28:10 pm »
Ninth level civil servants, the lowest, entry level positions, usually entailing
janitorial or catering work, make 28,000,000KRW per year.

To achieve this you need to make 2.33M/month.

I think the people considering moving to China or Japan have the right idea.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/07/181_271557.html

But, but...what about the free apartment in Korea?


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3390

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2019, 04:36:24 pm »
If you add that in you're probably still make less than the average Korean... or about even?... but the average Korean doesn't have a university degree. Young folks, yes... but on average, no.

The median salary for an American university grad is $65k plus benefits.

Koreans (correctly) think Western English teachers don't earn much compared to their counterparts and often refer to them as "losers back home". Not sure exactly how common that sentiment is, but I've heard it several times.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3390

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 04:37:45 pm »
Teaching- that is, helping others- can feel so satisfying and fulfilling. The problem is the pay is not great. And adjusted for inflation it's declining.


Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2019, 04:57:50 pm »
Ninth level civil servants, the lowest, entry level positions, usually entailing
janitorial or catering work, make 28,000,000KRW per year.

To achieve this you need to make 2.33M/month.

I think the people considering moving to China or Japan have the right idea.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2019/07/181_271557.html

But, but...what about the free apartment in Korea?

Here's what $600 a month will get you in Cleveland, America's Worst City.

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/apa/d/cleveland-newly-renovated-efficiency/6904890982.html
Quote
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM
    Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 pm
Donald Trump is a lying sack of shit


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3390

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 05:07:46 pm »
Career English teachers abroad might end up in Cleveland in their old age. Or Detroit. Or Compton. Low rent fees there.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3720

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2019, 12:54:53 am »
Career English teachers abroad might end up in Cleveland in their old age. Or Detroit. Or Compton. Low rent fees there.
More likely Thailand or the Philippines.


Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2019, 07:13:22 am »
Ninth level civil servants, the lowest, entry level positions, usually entailing
janitorial or catering work, make 28,000,000KRW per year.

To achieve this you need to make 2.33M/month.

What a wonky quote of yours...

Quote
Irregular employees working at schools, including cafeteria cooks and janitors, are set to stage a three-day nationwide strike this week, calling for a pay raise.

Quote
According to the alliance, the annual salary of a first-year irregular worker is 24.3 million won ($21,000), 86.7 percent of a ninth-grade civil official's 28 million won salary.

Why have you glued those sentences together to make a stupid point?  Those cooks and janitors are being paid 24.3 million a year which works out at 2 million a year over twelve months or 1.86 million if you add in the contract bonus. 

For a native teacher to make 28 million a year would be 2.15 million a month (bonus included) which they do at entry level, mostly. 

These 'you're not getting paid enough, they're taking you for suckers' 'hey, it's 2019 why are you still getting screwed?' threads are becoming insufferable.  Some of us here don't make 'money' our highest and only priority to live in Korea. 


  • Datasapien
  • Super Waygook

    • 403

    • February 04, 2012, 09:36:25 pm
    • Chungcheongbuk-do
    more
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2019, 07:30:46 am »
How much I'm getting paid isn't so important to me, it's rather how much I'm able to save. Putting away $1,000+ per month feels rather nice. I'm sure that a large part of a larger salary would just go towards funding 'lifestyle creep' on luxuries that aren't really needed anyway, and wouldn't result in a linear increase in savings. Also, another point someone made a few years back which I think rings true is that even IF we are getting paid lower than the average, I'm sure we are also putting in less than the average work hours.

I get your point though, having a higher salary would be nice, but I don't think things are quite as dire as you are making them out to seem.
"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man." - Jebediah Springfield.


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1533

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2019, 07:38:15 am »
Don't forget when considering the pay that is based off a 52 hour work week. Kind of adds some perspective to it. The bus drivers at my school easily work 50 hours a week not sure if they have to drive for the Sat. am programs, but they probably do.


  • rhiane17
  • Newgookin

    • 1

    • March 03, 2018, 09:45:12 pm
    • Korea
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2019, 07:58:08 am »
How much I'm getting paid isn't so important to me, it's rather how much I'm able to save. Putting away $1,000+ per month feels rather nice. I'm sure that a large part of a larger salary would just go towards funding 'lifestyle creep' on luxuries that aren't really needed anyway, and wouldn't result in a linear increase in savings. Also, another point someone made a few years back which I think rings true is that even IF we are getting paid lower than the average, I'm sure we are also putting in less than the average work hours.

I get your point though, having a higher salary would be nice, but I don't think things are quite as dire as you are making them out to seem.

I agree, we do work less hours especially in public school. Unless you are putting in overtime(which is paid) public school teachers average 4-5 lessons a day, with no admin tasks to complete. I personally teach alone, but I know alot of other epik teachers who have co-teachers who do a public of the lesson planning. If the If you take into account the amount of work we actually do (public school not hagwon)  the monthly 400,000won housing allowance, the entrance and exit flights, plus  the settlement bonus (non of which the average Korean gets from his company). It is not as dire as OP is making it out to be.

Also I happened to see the monthly pay slip of the cafeteria workers at my school, we get paid more than them but we do the same hours. They also do not get full pay during summer and winter breaks but only a small portion of their pay. I see OPs point. However, I think it is blown out of proportion.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3390

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2019, 08:08:44 am »
Don't forget when considering the pay that is based off a 52 hour work week.

Is it that long?

That's the maximum.

"South Korea officially dropped its maximum workweek to 52 hours"

"Those who make their employees work more than 52 hours weekly now face up to two years in prison or a fine of up to 20 million won"

...hmmm... maybe males work longer than females though- I read the average Korean male salary is 3.5 mil a month; for females 2.3.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3390

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2019, 08:11:39 am »
The bus drivers at my school easily work 50 hours a week.

They're driving a bus to and from the school for 50 hours a week? Seems like it would be shorter than that.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3390

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2019, 08:22:55 am »
Also I happened to see the monthly pay slip of the cafeteria workers at my school, we get paid more than them but we do the same hours. They also do not get full pay during summer and winter breaks but only a small portion of their pay.

How much was the pay? And was it their first year working?

According to the article "the annual salary of a first-year irregular worker is 24.3 million won ". (That averages out to 2.025 million a month.)


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1533

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2019, 08:28:34 am »
The bus drivers at my school easily work 50 hours a week.

They're driving a bus to and from the school for 50 hours a week? Seems like it would be shorter than that.

No but they are at the school for the entire day. Start driving at 7:30, at school during the day, sometimes day trips for field trips etc, then start dropping off at 3. Their last run is leaving the school at 4:30. Still a long day regardless.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3390

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2019, 08:35:12 am »
What are they doing at school? Not exactly back breaking labor. Chilling with a cup of tea. Chatting with others. That's what i see them doing. (Not sure if they have other big tasks to do during the course of the day.) Seems like a somewhat cushy job.


  • hangook77
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1179

    • September 14, 2017, 09:10:12 am
    • Near Busan
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2019, 08:39:20 am »
Over a decade ago, the average hakwon paid 2.1 to 2.3 million a month.  The average middle class wage was around 2 million or slightly over.  (Of course that average included many lower wage workers.  If you lived in Seoul, there were a lot of folks making more than this back then.)  The average middle class wage has gone up since then, but the average hakwon wage has not. 

As for the public school, most provincial positions are ok for now.  Level 1 plus 2.7 plus multiple school allowances 150k plus 100 for living outside a city plus 400 k for rent allowance, the odd overtime assignment (though not much) and the 2 million renewal allowance.  I guess comes in around 3.4 million to 3.5 million depending on the year.  Take off 10 per cent aprox for deductions -- 3.15ish aprox?  take off 400 for rent 2.75ish average a month? 

Of course the small amount of overtime is paid periodically and the bonus is paid once a year in one lump sum.  So, monthly average would prob be closer to 2.5ish left over?  If you can get a renovated or decent condition older place, deposits are cheap and you can prob get a decent apartment in these places for a small deposit like 5 or 10 million which is why I suggested rent subsidy.  (You might even go above the 400 but prob not more than 500 k a month for rent in a decent pad.)  But being in a smaller town, city, or rural area does make it more necessary to get a car.  So that expense can subtract from that salary too. 


Anyways, decent salaries can be had.  2.1 in 2007 would be up to nearly 3.0 million a month today with inflation.  Though being in the middle of a minimum wage spike, even this may soon not be enough.  If you are married and the primary bread winner, I can guarantee what was once enough no longer is.   (Level 1 plus salary.)  Still decent for a single person. 

As I said in another post hakwons are experiencing a shortage of workers and it is a good time to demand a raise or refuse a position until you are at least paid in the upper 2.0's.  Walk away and wait a little and you will get it.  Some scumbag recruiters may have to filter you out and play mind games claiming you had better hurry to get the position.  Oldest sales trick in the book.  Pretend to be happy with it, get the contract sent you.  Rewrite the wage from 2.3 to 2.7 and send it back.  Tell the boss you will only accept a higher wage explaining that Korea is more expensive than it was in 2008.  If he is a businessman he will know what you are saying even if he's resistant.  If he wants the position empty that's his decision.  Be prepared to walk away.  Ignore the cucks and can't doers.  It's time to push the wages up for these jobs. 

We never know what we may face if we lost our jobs.  Also hakwons shooting up their wages, will put more pressure on EPIK, especially in the cities.  I had heard in Seoul level 3 is still 1.8 in principal, whereas in the provinces it starts at 2.1.  Of course they don't hire level 3s anymore.  Also, no renewal allowance in Seoul.  Paying less and taking away bonus just because they can is a d!ck move.  Plus they also have very strict deskwarming policies during the vacations.
 I hear they make you go in all day and then don't give you any heat or aircon.  I wouldn't be employed long because I'd put my foot down over that.  So more competition from the hakwons up there will definitely improve those work conditions.  I'd prob go hakwon if I were up there if I could get a decent wage negotiated.  I don't think public school in Seoul is worth it.  Plus a serious cap on wage hikes and no bonus.  Screw that.  Provincial EPIK is still decent.  But wages will have to creep up soon as the last wage hike was put in place in 2009 back when they were still desperate for people.  It was a great place to park your butt during the Great Recession when the market was flooded and wages were kept low.   

I guess it is above or other countries which I searched on Daves.  Global market for ESL seems good right now. 


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1533

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2019, 08:48:32 am »
What are they doing at school? Not exactly back breaking labor. Chilling with a cup of tea. Chatting with others. That's what i see them doing. (Not sure if they have other big tasks to do during the course of the day.) Seems like a somewhat cushy job.

Yeah so is ours generally. Point being they are still at work not how much work.


  • Mister Tim
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1527

    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
    • SK
Re: You need to make 28M to be bottom of the barrel
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2019, 08:48:42 am »
As someone whose sense of self worth is inexorably tied to the size of his paycheck, this disturbs me greatly.