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  • bb459
  • Veteran

    • 171

    • March 02, 2019, 06:19:42 pm
    • South Korea
v
« on: June 19, 2019, 08:56:12 am »
v
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 10:48:21 am by bb459 »


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1000

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2019, 09:11:12 am »
The use of expat has been expanded because people feel there is more of a cache or stature to referring to oneself as an expat.  You're right about that.  If you applied to be a teacher over here on your own volition you're an immigrant.  Now because of the often temporary stays and the fact that there really isn't a viable path to citizenship or permanent residency for most of us, or those who don't marry a Korean citizen we fall somewhere in between a true expat and an immigrant back home in Canada, as an example.  I've been here over a decade and I still have to apply for an E2 each year.  An immigrant in the west would not be stuck in that cycle after this many years. 

An expat is someone who is has been expatriated and often will include professionals who have been headhunted.  The true expat community doesn't consider your average E2 English teacher to be a part of the authentic expat community if that label is important to you.  People in my home who have been moved there (expatriated) by their home country's government or a foreign company are certainly considered expats in the West.  Immigrants are another legitimate group. 


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2917

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2019, 09:23:24 am »
...that we should leave in 2019

When people from other countries move to yall's home country.
I GUARANTEE you don't call them "expats".
They're called "foreigners" and "immigrants"

Both words that the media attaches negative, dirty, poor, criminal connotations to.

So how come when we do the same exact thing and relocate to another country, we get
a seemingly clean/dignified word like "expat" ?
Nope

We are foreigners. We are immigrants. We are alien.
We are the same as the people eggiefugger and mr defartino want to keep OUT of their home countries.

Don't get it twisted.

That's all fine, but again as was discussed here last week, most of us are NOT immigrants. 90% of E2s are here for a few years tops and then move on. Most have no intention to live here permanently. Using the word immigrant is just wrong. Someone like leapnover who seems to have been here for a long time, owns a business here, yes he could be called an immigrant. And I'm sure he would have no problem with that.

Migrant workers, fine. I really don't think anyone cares that much. And who is under any illusion as to us being Aliens? It's written clearly on every piece of official documentation that we receive. And as an aside, no one has ever called me an expat. Nor I myself.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2019, 09:30:54 am »
I prefer 'Fugacious Gruntwork Attendant' and wish to be addressed as such. 


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1747

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2019, 09:40:35 am »
You are all wrong in Korea we are "waygookin" (computer doesn't like my hangeul). In case you have forgotten wait about 2 minutes and someone will remind you.


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2917

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2019, 09:43:59 am »
...that we should leave in 2019

When people from other countries move to yall's home country.
I GUARANTEE you don't call them "expats".
They're called "foreigners" and "immigrants"

Both words that the media attaches negative, dirty, poor, criminal connotations to.

So how come when we do the same exact thing and relocate to another country, we get
a seemingly clean/dignified word like "expat" ?
Nope

We are foreigners. We are immigrants. We are alien.
We are the same as the people eggiefugger and mr defartino want to keep OUT of their home countries.

Don't get it twisted.

That's all fine, but again as was discussed here last week, most of us are NOT immigrants. 90% of E2s are here for a few years tops and then move on. Most have no intention to live here permanently. Using the word immigrant is just wrong. Someone like leapnover who seems to have been here for a long time, owns a business here, yes he could be called an immigrant. And I'm sure he would have no problem with that.

Migrant workers, fine. I really don't think anyone cares that much. And who is under any illusion as to us being Aliens? It's written clearly on every piece of official documentation that we receive. And as an aside, no one has ever called me an expat. Nor I myself.

In amerika. Whether a foreigner has lived there 1 year or 40 years. Whether they are there legally or not.
Whether they have acquired citizenship or not. The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"...they don't get the privilege of having a word to separate
themselves from those stigmas and connotations. That's the way it is.
Ok, well, a lot of us aren't Americans. I know that's hard for you guys to comprehend sometimes, that the whole world doesn't operate in the same as you do.

It's amazing how often some Americans reinforce the "center of the universe" stereotype sometimes.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1747

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2019, 09:56:37 am »
...that we should leave in 2019

When people from other countries move to yall's home country.
I GUARANTEE you don't call them "expats".
They're called "foreigners" and "immigrants"

Both words that the media attaches negative, dirty, poor, criminal connotations to.

So how come when we do the same exact thing and relocate to another country, we get
a seemingly clean/dignified word like "expat" ?
Nope

We are foreigners. We are immigrants. We are alien.
We are the same as the people eggiefugger and mr defartino want to keep OUT of their home countries.

Don't get it twisted.

That's all fine, but again as was discussed here last week, most of us are NOT immigrants. 90% of E2s are here for a few years tops and then move on. Most have no intention to live here permanently. Using the word immigrant is just wrong. Someone like leapnover who seems to have been here for a long time, owns a business here, yes he could be called an immigrant. And I'm sure he would have no problem with that.

Migrant workers, fine. I really don't think anyone cares that much. And who is under any illusion as to us being Aliens? It's written clearly on every piece of official documentation that we receive. And as an aside, no one has ever called me an expat. Nor I myself.

In amerika. Whether a foreigner has lived there 1 year or 40 years. Whether they are there legally or not.
Whether they have acquired citizenship or not. The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"...they don't get the privilege of having a word to separate
themselves from those stigmas and connotations. That's the way it is.
Ok, well, a lot of us aren't Americans. I know that's hard for you guys to comprehend sometimes, that the whole world doesn't operate in the same as you do.

It's amazing how often some Americans reinforce the "center of the universe" stereotype sometimes.

Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P


  • tylerthegloob
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1020

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2019, 10:01:18 am »
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 10:02:54 am by tylerthegloob »


  • LIC
  • Expert Waygook

    • 677

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2019, 10:02:01 am »
I refer to myself as an ex-pat. My wife and family refer to me as foreigner. LOL


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1747

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2019, 10:08:37 am »
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보



  • tylerthegloob
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1020

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2019, 10:15:19 am »
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보
(map)

ah. a man of culture. so you're from kansas, then?


Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2019, 10:17:10 am »
mr defartino
First off, I'm one of the main posters who has advocated that we are migrant workers and NOT immigrants. Because for most of us we are, get this, migrant workers. Or temporary workers. Most of us are NOT immigrants. As far as the use of expat or whatever, a lot of times that term is just used interchangeably with ESLer or NETs or waygook or foreigner or whatever for the sake of writing variety. Yes, some of us apply the same standard, regardless of country.

I'm also one of the few posters to take people to task for assuming that foreigner=English Teacher/Westerner and centering foreigner issues and what should be done for foreigners within that prism. I often point out that by far the biggest group of foreigners are Chinese and also SE Asians and South Asians. Same with tourists.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5164

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2019, 10:26:14 am »
Ok, well, a lot of us aren't Americans. I know that's hard for you guys to comprehend sometimes, that the whole world doesn't operate in the same as you do.

It's amazing how often some Americans reinforce the "center of the universe" stereotype sometimes.
I hate this crap so much. We all live overseas, you'd think these people would have a bit of a broader worldview.

Some Americans are shitty to immigrants. So.............. You, the Canadian man should feel bad. Don't use these words. These words are problematic. Trump supporters are bad.

Reminds me of people who get upset at cultural appropriation of Japanese culture (sushi in uni cafeterias, kimonos etc) and then when the ACTUAL Japanese people are consulted they say "Oh, no, that's great. They like our culture! ^^!


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1747

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2019, 10:27:03 am »
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보
(map)

ah. a man of culture. so you're from kansas, then?

:D Just taking a piss man. Sorry...


  • tylerthegloob
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1020

    • September 28, 2016, 10:46:24 am
    • Busan
    more
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2019, 10:28:59 am »
Wait what!?? Are you sure?  Well technically most maps put us in the center of the universe to be fair. :P

lol wtf kind of maps you looking at? africa is always in the middle

edit: just realized you're probably from south africa and i look like a 바보
(map)

ah. a man of culture. so you're from kansas, then?

:D Just taking a piss man. Sorry...

i hope you're in the bathroom..


Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2019, 10:32:41 am »
In amerika. Whether a foreigner has lived there 1 year or 40 years. Whether they are there legally or not.
Whether they have acquired citizenship or not. The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"...they don't get the privilege of having a word to separate
themselves from those stigmas and connotations. That's the way it is.
Imagine having such a degree of mental illness that you think America is some sort of oppressive fascist country. It has major problems, especially as world policemen, but for being such an awful place, it sure has a lot of people trying to get in, rather than trying to get out. Real fascist/totalitarian countries have to build walls to keep people in.

I think Hispanic immigrants and refugees have their heads on straighter than some of the left-wingers in our country. They know actual police states and brutality, not "I'm bored and want to add significance to my life by imagining myself as waging some valiant struggle against evil before I log off Instagram and go clubbing" silliness.

Quote
The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"
That generally happens with 1st generation immigrants in any country, which frankly is a bit understandable as many 1st gen immigrants themselves offer a dual/hybrid zone (which is great in my opinion). I think those who insist that they be labeled as "Full Americans" (though that should be the default standard if they are a citizen) are just as ridiculous as those who insist "They aren't Americans". They should be whatever they the individual considers themself, whether that's Full or Aren't or anywhere in between. Or someone can be "Full" AND something else. Binary, linear thinking is for idiots.

I can't speak for eggieguffer, but I am NOT anti-immigrant and have disagreed with some of the anti-immigrant posts here, particularly when it comes to Muslim immigration. I am not anti-immigrant, I am pro-legal immigration. I want everyone who enters a country to do so legally because that is what is most fair for immigrants. It is the best system. Mass illegal immigration is unsustainable and immigration numbers that exceed the capacity of the government to maintain its level of services places is not sound policy. No one of rational mind would support such a system. You could be the most pro-immigration person in the world and you should still want a system of legal, controlled immigration.

Again, you seem to operate in this concept where people are either all right-wing or left-wing on everything and it's the most cartoonish version of each side. This suggests a lack of higher-level thinking and inattention to detail, as well as low amounts of patience. A

Also, if you need to use an insult version of someone's name in your argument, you probably have a shitty argument to begin with.


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1747

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2019, 10:40:09 am »
In amerika. Whether a foreigner has lived there 1 year or 40 years. Whether they are there legally or not.
Whether they have acquired citizenship or not. The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"...they don't get the privilege of having a word to separate
themselves from those stigmas and connotations. That's the way it is.
Imagine having such a degree of mental illness that you think America is some sort of oppressive fascist country. It has major problems, especially as world policemen, but for being such an awful place, it sure has a lot of people trying to get in, rather than trying to get out. Real fascist/totalitarian countries have to build walls to keep people in.

I think Hispanic immigrants and refugees have their heads on straighter than some of the left-wingers in our country. They know actual police states and brutality, not "I'm bored and want to add significance to my life by imagining myself as waging some valiant struggle against evil before I log off Instagram and go clubbing" silliness.

Quote
The trumpets and average amerikan citizens and the media
labels them "immigrants' "migrants" and "foreigners"
That generally happens with 1st generation immigrants in any country, which frankly is a bit understandable as many 1st gen immigrants themselves offer a dual/hybrid zone (which is great in my opinion). I think those who insist that they be labeled as "Full Americans" (though that should be the default standard if they are a citizen) are just as ridiculous as those who insist "They aren't Americans". They should be whatever they the individual considers themself, whether that's Full or Aren't or anywhere in between. Or someone can be "Full" AND something else. Binary, linear thinking is for idiots.

I can't speak for eggieguffer, but I am NOT anti-immigrant and have disagreed with some of the anti-immigrant posts here, particularly when it comes to Muslim immigration. I am not anti-immigrant, I am pro-legal immigration. I want everyone who enters a country to do so legally because that is what is most fair for immigrants. It is the best system. Mass illegal immigration is unsustainable and immigration numbers that exceed the capacity of the government to maintain its level of services places is not sound policy. No one of rational mind would support such a system. You could be the most pro-immigration person in the world and you should still want a system of legal, controlled immigration.

Again, you seem to operate in this concept where people are either all right-wing or left-wing on everything and it's the most cartoonish version of each side. This suggests a lack of higher-level thinking and inattention to detail, as well as low amounts of patience. A

Also, if you need to use an insult version of someone's name in your argument, you probably have a shitty argument to begin with.

Most "mass illegal immigration" is fueled by refugees, which by US law have the right to claim asylum on US soil.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5164

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2019, 11:36:09 am »
got too many people in my inbox complaining about how you "speak down" to everyone
and always try to stir the pot.

I don't believe this for a second. hahahahaha


  • OnNut81
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1000

    • April 01, 2011, 03:01:41 pm
    • Anyang
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2019, 11:40:39 am »
LIC: I refer to myself as an ex-pat.

I think this is where the OP had a valid post.  Often people who are not expats adopt the title because it comes with a certain cachet.  English teachers aren't technically expats because we weren't expatriated from our home countries.  The effort to expand the term expats to include your average hakwan joe has not been undertaken by the local expat chamber of commerce or networking groups.  I'm not sure exactly how you classify the kind of immigrant who gets an apartment and often is placed directly into public schools.  There's certainly a world of difference between those of us who emigrated to take a teaching job and those in the factories.  I always find it a bit funny when an ESL teacher is referring to themselves as an expat.  I like my life here, but to refer to myself as an expat is overreaching. 


  • VanIslander
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 1679

    • June 02, 2011, 10:12:19 am
    • Seogwipo, Jeju Island
    more
Re: "expat" is a bs word...
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2019, 01:02:41 pm »
Plenty of literature, including Hemingway, has described "the expat lifestyle".

Not many people nowadays live it.

See ya in a gin joint in Casablanca.