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  • LIC
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Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« on: May 04, 2019, 04:32:12 pm »
I think everyone agrees pedophiles are destroyers of souls, ruiners of lives, worthy of the most vicious and inhumane methods of torture available.

But...what about the people who protect pedophiles. Those people who know, for a fact, that a person is molesting children and do nothing?

What about them?

 


Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2019, 09:46:36 pm »
LIC if you suspect this is going on you need to do something.... Posting here wont solve anything its time you take action. Don't be that bystander!


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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2019, 11:46:12 pm »
Many times, they are victims as well.



Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2019, 03:43:21 pm »
Very sensitive topic and I think you have to be clear with your terms and what you're actually talking about.

You can't "viciously torture" someone just because they're a pedophile.  If they haven't acted on their desires then you can't do anything can you? 

But if someone is harming children (either directly or indirectly) then yeah, throw the book at them.


Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2019, 04:09:53 pm »
Very sensitive topic and I think you have to be clear with your terms and what you're actually talking about.

You can't "viciously torture" someone just because they're a pedophile.  If they haven't acted on their desires then you can't do anything can you? 

But if someone is harming children (either directly or indirectly) then yeah, throw the book at them.

How about looking at pedophile pornography artificially created by computer?


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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2019, 06:50:31 pm »
Very sensitive topic and I think you have to be clear with your terms and what you're actually talking about.

You can't "viciously torture" someone just because they're a pedophile.  If they haven't acted on their desires then you can't do anything can you? 

But if someone is harming children (either directly or indirectly) then yeah, throw the book at them.

How about looking at pedophile pornography artificially created by computer?
In my film class, we were talking about storywriting and thematic elements, and I can't remember how it came up, but I said there's something noble about someone who is attracted to children and NEVER, EVER acts upon it, in a physical sense, or in the promotion/production of pornography.  And that's the great part about hypotheticals! I said NEVER.

Queue the "OMG, that's disgusting!" "Kevin, wtf." "Well, it could lead to................" (this last person obv didn't mind the neber part.

But, that's the point. Imagine wanting something really bad. REALLY bad. Sex is something that the vast majority of humans want. VAST. Now imagine suppressing that urge your entire life because you understand the wrongness of it and the harm it would do.

I'm not saying build statues of them, or sending them thank you cards. But there is something admirable about pushing those desires down and saying, it's not worth it, there's too much harm. I don't want to defend pedophiles, per se, but I am pretty sure they don't choose to be attracted to children. They don't one day decide, "You know what? Children, yeah. There's an avenue I haven't been down."

Again, pedophilia is gross, but I can't imagine holding down the thing I wanted most for 70-odd years. Must be difficult.
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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2019, 07:28:14 pm »
Yes, if you believe people are born liking members of the opposite sex, there's no reason at all to think people aren't born liking children.  However if you announced the fact that you were born liking children in polite company , while at the same time making it clear you had never acted on it and never intended to, you would no doubt still be treated like a pariah.


Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2019, 07:42:07 pm »
In my film class, we were talking about storywriting and thematic elements, and I can't remember how it came up, but I said there's something noble about someone who is attracted to children and NEVER, EVER acts upon it, in a physical sense, or in the promotion/production of pornography.  And that's the great part about hypotheticals! I said NEVER.

Queue the "OMG, that's disgusting!" "Kevin, wtf." "Well, it could lead to................" (this last person obv didn't mind the neber part.

But, that's the point. Imagine wanting something really bad. REALLY bad. Sex is something that the vast majority of humans want. VAST. Now imagine suppressing that urge your entire life because you understand the wrongness of it and the harm it would do.

I'm not saying build statues of them, or sending them thank you cards. But there is something admirable about pushing those desires down and saying, it's not worth it, there's too much harm. I don't want to defend pedophiles, per se, but I am pretty sure they don't choose to be attracted to children. They don't one day decide, "You know what? Children, yeah. There's an avenue I haven't been down."

Again, pedophilia is gross, but I can't imagine holding down the thing I wanted most for 70-odd years. Must be difficult.

I don't think there's anything noble about not doing what the majority of us already won't do. This isn't about sex in general. This is about having sex with children.

Is there anything noble about someone who fantasizes about raping not actually raping someone?

Them: "Oh, yeah, I always think about tying him/her up, then pounding them so hard they bruise. The thought of them screaming really turns me on."

Most everyone: "That's disgusting."

Them: "Well... I won't actually do it. I want to, but I know what the rest of society thinks about it, so I won't."

Almost no one: "How noble of you."

I understand what you're saying, I really do, but there's nothing special about someone not acting on impulses, especially when those impulses are harmful and detrimental to another human being. That's a minimum standard.

There is a level of admiration for people who recognize they have a problem and will seek help for those problems, especially if they have poor impulse control and are dangerously close to offending, but pedophilia is a complicated issue with many causes. While the majority of them didn't choose to have that sort of attraction, they weren't born that way. I know there's a small movement to get it legally classified as a type of sexual orientation, but "sexual orientation" doesn't mean what most people think it means in this case, and pedophilia will always be a disorder that most sufferers will need to be treated for.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 12:07:15 am by Chinguetti »


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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2019, 07:44:54 pm »
I don't think there's anything noble about not doing what the majority of us already won't do. This isn't about sex in general. This is about having sex with children.

Is there anything noble about someone who fantasizes about raping not actually raping someone?

Them: "Oh, yeah, I always think about tying him/her up, then pounding them so hard they bruise. The thought of them screaming really turns me on."

Most everyone: "That's disgusting."

Them: "Well... I won't actually do it. I want to, but I know what the rest of society thinks about it, so I won't."

Almost no one: "How noble of you."

I understand what you're saying, I really do, but there's nothing special about someone not acting on impulses, especially when those impulses are harmful and detrimental to another human being. That's a minimum standard.

There is a level of admiration for people who recognize they have a problem and will seek help for those problems, especially if they have poor impulse control and are dangerously close to offending, but paedofilia is a complicated issue with many causes. While the majority of them didn't choose to have that sort of attraction, they weren't born that way.

I know, it's hard to get the right word. Not respect, it's not noble in the traditional sense.

Just, like a begrudging, "Nice man, thanks for not plumbing the darkest parts of your soul even though that raging id is telling you to?"

Again, that's why I said, not statues, not thanks. Just............ again, I don't know the word for it. Sensitive subject indeed.

I think there's a difference between someone who robs a bank for money so they can get high or live the high life. It's wrong too (I don't want into how wrong different things are) but there's an innately, social "F this, I want 100 000 grand and I'm gonna get it." Suppressing that urge is easy. We learn socially not to steal other people's stuff.

Sexual urges and attraction are much deeper I think. I don't think people toss and turn at night cuz they don't have that sick ride from the bank money they've stolen.

Ugh, I can't imagine being attracted to something illegal and just repressing it my entire life. Again, it's hard not to sound like I;m defending pedophiles, but it must be an awful feeling, NOT AS BAD AS RAPE, obviously, I shouldn't even need to proclaim that. But it has to be hard psychologically, and to take a deep breath and say NO, that's wrong. There's a willpower there.

Ugh, I'm in the conversation now, there's no going back. I just hope people can read this with an ounce of objectivity. It IS a horrible subject.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 07:52:57 pm by CO2 »
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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2019, 07:48:46 pm »
In my film class, we were talking about storywriting and thematic elements, and I can't remember how it came up, but I said there's something noble about someone who is attracted to children and NEVER, EVER acts upon it, in a physical sense, or in the promotion/production of pornography.  And that's the great part about hypotheticals! I said NEVER.

Queue the "OMG, that's disgusting!" "Kevin, wtf." "Well, it could lead to................" (this last person obv didn't mind the neber part.

But, that's the point. Imagine wanting something really bad. REALLY bad. Sex is something that the vast majority of humans want. VAST. Now imagine suppressing that urge your entire life because you understand the wrongness of it and the harm it would do.

I'm not saying build statues of them, or sending them thank you cards. But there is something admirable about pushing those desires down and saying, it's not worth it, there's too much harm. I don't want to defend pedophiles, per se, but I am pretty sure they don't choose to be attracted to children. They don't one day decide, "You know what? Children, yeah. There's an avenue I haven't been down."

Again, pedophilia is gross, but I can't imagine holding down the thing I wanted most for 70-odd years. Must be difficult.

I don't think there's anything noble about not doing what the majority of us already won't do. This isn't about sex in general. This is about having sex with children.

Is there anything noble about someone who fantasizes about raping not actually raping someone?

Them: "Oh, yeah, I always think about tying him/her up, then pounding them so hard they bruise. The thought of them screaming really turns me on."

Most everyone: "That's disgusting."

Them: "Well... I won't actually do it. I want to, but I know what the rest of society thinks about it, so I won't."

Almost no one: "How noble of you."

I understand what you're saying, I really do, but there's nothing special about someone not acting on impulses, especially when those impulses are harmful and detrimental to another human being. That's a minimum standard.

There is a level of admiration for people who recognize they have a problem and will seek help for those problems, especially if they have poor impulse control and are dangerously close to offending, but pedophilia is a complicated issue with many causes. While the majority of them didn't choose to have that sort of attraction, they weren't born that way. I know there's a small movement to get it classified as a type of sexual orientation in an attempt to define it as a natural and normal attraction, but it will never be classified as such, because it's not a natural and normal attraction.

It's likely someone who fantisizes about rape can also have a legal consensual relationship with someone they are attracted to, as opposed to a pedophile or a gay person in the past who couldn't.   


Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2019, 08:00:41 pm »
It's likely someone who fantisizes about rape can also have a legal consensual relationship with someone they are attracted to, as opposed to a pedophile or a gay person in the past who couldn't.   

It's not an issue about whether or not you can pursue a relationship with a person you're attracted to, though. If it were, you wouldn't see the wide variety of backgrounds for rapists, and you wouldn't have pedophiles who don't offend. Many pedophiles engage in legal and consensual relationships with others, too, and most child molesters are in relationships (I'm distinguishing between pedophiles and child molesters here -- not all pedophiles are child molesters/rapists, and not all child molesters/rapists are pedophiles). It's based on a person's psychological disposition, and how much they rate their sexual (and other) gratification as being more important than another person's autonomy and wellbeing.

Pedophilia is a very complicated problem that has more than one cause and is not a normal, natural or accepted sexual orientation. It's a disorder. The ones who suffer from it, even if they don't offend, normally need some type of psychological or medical help. The ones who don't suffer from it but offend anyway pretty much always do because they have a lot of other problems going on that lead up to it. In the vast majority of cases, the argument that they were "just born that way" cannot be made, but, even in those few cases where that argument can be made, it cannot be justified as natural. It is a disorder.

The key words when regarding sex of any variety in any case are "legal" and "consensual." To be legal in most modern countries, any sexual relationship must be consensual between competent and coherent adults (and that which does not cross a certain threshold of harm as well). In a legal and psychological sense, children cannot consent, even if you can manipulate them into saying that they do, because they are not competent and are far too vulnerable. The effects of that type of abuse on them and their development are incredibly harmful and detrimental.

Homosexual adults have problems with legality in many countries (and in history in general), but it's not based on their ability or inability to consent, or on any level of harm on themselves or others. They also don't go around molesting or raping people just because they can't have sex or be in a relationship with the ones they want to.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 11:53:57 pm by Chinguetti »


Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2019, 10:17:39 pm »
How about looking at pedophile pornography artificially created by computer?

They've got sex dolls that look like children that are legal in some countries. Items like those CAN be legally difficult to fight, either because possession of such items are not seen as problematic in those countries (as in there's a higher acceptance of pedophilia there), or because the items themselves aren't real (therefore, there are no victims)... but, in most countries where sexual conduct with children is illegal, the act of having any such item -- be it physical or digital, real or fake -- that depicts children in a sexual capacity or is of a sexual nature, is also illegal, because there is a strong correlation between possession of such materials, even if fake, and either eventually offending or having already offended.

Those offenders that only possess digitally created child porn are normally only trying to avoid as much criminal liability as possible rather than attempting to dissuade whatever "urges" they have. So, the punishments for possessing real or digitally created child pornography are usually the same. Child pornography, even if virtual, is still child pornography.

Possession of any child pornography is treated much in the same way as cruelty to animals (but more serious) is as it is often a sign of violent tendencies and other mental/psychological disorders that can, will or already has escalated to real people.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 11:59:34 pm by Chinguetti »


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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2019, 03:49:14 pm »
Interesting. The poster who wrote about the "nobility" of repressing deep-seated desires presents a perspective I hadn't thought of. I wouldn't agree to the noble thing, but it definitely shows profound control.

However, my question was what about the people who protect pedophiles.

FYI: I'm the victim. The pedophile was my best friend's older brother. My best friend was the protector which I know for a fact because I told him minutes after the molestation. (It takes virtually no imagination on my part to believe the rest of his family knew as well. I can't prove that that, but I know my best friend knew cuz I told him)

4 decades on and I still think about it every single freaking day. It never goes away.


Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2019, 04:13:32 pm »
I'll take "Topics you must be utterly insane to post about on a teaching website in Korea, for 200 Alex".


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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2019, 04:18:05 pm »
I'll take "Topics you must be utterly insane to post about on a teaching website in Korea, for 200 Alex".

LOL...it's really about my friend. No it's not. Sorry. It's about someone my friend knows that I haven't met yet.


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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2019, 09:15:28 pm »
I'll take "Topics you must be utterly insane to post about on a teaching website in Korea, for 200 Alex".
Totally agree
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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2019, 02:01:55 am »
I think everyone agrees pedophiles are destroyers of souls, ruiners of lives, worthy of the most vicious and inhumane methods of torture available.

But...what about the people who protect pedophiles. Those people who know, for a fact, that a person is molesting children and do nothing?

What about them?

 
The join the Republican party  like Jim Jordan.

Or Anthony Weiner. Oh, wait...
Oh wait, not a pedophile.


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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2019, 02:04:01 am »
I'll take "Topics you must be utterly insane to post about on a teaching website in Korea, for 200 Alex".
What is imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Art?
Correct for 200. The board is yours.


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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2019, 08:00:45 am »
How about looking at pedophile pornography artificially created by computer?

They've got sex dolls that look like children that are legal in some countries. Items like those CAN be legally difficult to fight, either because possession of such items are not seen as problematic in those countries (as in there's a higher acceptance of pedophilia there), or because the items themselves aren't real (therefore, there are no victims)... but, in most countries where sexual conduct with children is illegal, the act of having any such item -- be it physical or digital, real or fake -- that depicts children in a sexual capacity or is of a sexual nature, is also illegal, because there is a strong correlation between possession of such materials, even if fake, and either eventually offending or having already offended.

Those offenders that only possess digitally created child porn are normally only trying to avoid as much criminal liability as possible rather than attempting to dissuade whatever "urges" they have. So, the punishments for possessing real or digitally created child pornography are usually the same. Child pornography, even if virtual, is still child pornography.

Possession of any child pornography is treated much in the same way as cruelty to animals (but more serious) is as it is often a sign of violent tendencies and other mental/psychological disorders that can, will or already has escalated to real people.

One example I think of that comes to mind for this is the depiction of lolis in Japanese anime. A lot of these characters take the forms of very young girls, but there's usually some catch (either they aren't human, or they are actually hundreds of years old because of some magic).

I can't tell you hooooow many times on social media I've seen fan art and people lusting after these characters and then defending themselves saying "they aren't children, it's perfectly legal." The fact is, they find people with childlike features attractive, and therefore are more likely to be attracted to people with those features (i.e. children). It's wrong no matter how you try to paint it.

I get where CO2 is coming from, it's hard to suppress desires sometimes. As human beings we have two prime urges: to eat and procreate. The fact is, we all (in some capacity) have that desire as it's a part of who we are. However, with that desire we also have a choice in how to fulfill it. In the same way you can choose whether you want to eat a hamburger or a salad, we are capable of rationally (if you're of sound mind) choosing a sex partner. You're capable of choosing, we have choice. We're not like the animals who only think on instinct. We've evolved beyond that.

And again, in a past time this was seen as acceptable in some societies, but we've moved on. We've learned and changed as a society. If you, or someone you know is aware of someone who is lusting after under-aged children, you need to call the cops, tell the parents and anything else within your power to stop something terrible from happening.
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Re: Sensitive Topic: Pedophiles
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2019, 08:07:18 am »
Very sensitive topic and I think you have to be clear with your terms and what you're actually talking about.

You can't "viciously torture" someone just because they're a pedophile.  If they haven't acted on their desires then you can't do anything can you? 

But if someone is harming children (either directly or indirectly) then yeah, throw the book at them.

How about looking at pedophile pornography artificially created by computer?

IMO, people looking at cartoon kiddie porn, is a lot better than acting on their impulse and hurting a real kid.
If a pedo does rape a kid, they should be physically castrated though, IMO.