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  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3794

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2019, 10:31:30 am »
Yep....(though, soothsayers and wanna-be oracles will always try to infuse the "white supremacy" card simply to deflect from the actual point...it's all they can do)
Pretty hard to deflect from pointless.


  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 804

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2019, 10:37:19 am »
Quote
Pretty hard to deflect from pointless.

...and yet you keep trying to conflate legality with ethnicity. 

Yes, your platform is pointless...I'll agree with you. 


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3794

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2019, 09:01:40 pm »
Quote
Pretty hard to deflect from pointless.

...and yet you keep trying to conflate legality with ethnicity. 

Yes, your platform is pointless...I'll agree with you. 
Rule of law is a hollow argument. trump himself is employing illegals as are many of his supporters.


  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 804

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2019, 06:23:32 am »
Too bad those detention centers or "cages" were Obama's idea, eh?


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1657

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2019, 01:09:31 pm »
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEF4KmG4P-v4M71y9CBBZzZMqFAgEKg0IACoGCAow5YQBMJIaMIZF?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

Quote
“Border Patrol seems to think these brutal conditions, and the human suffering that results, will deter immigration, but the fact is that many of these people are fleeing persecution and violence, reuniting with family, or are themselves U.S. citizens,” said James Duff Lyall, an attorney with ACLU of Arizona, back in 2015. “These policies and practices serve no legitimate purpose, violate the U.S. Constitution, and offend basic American values.”

So these conditions are maintained to deter more migration. Here’s your solution mr. D don’t follow in the foot steps of war criminals when detaining human beings.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 01:12:17 pm by thunderlips »


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3794

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2019, 09:28:55 pm »
Too bad those detention centers or "cages" were Obama's idea, eh?
It didn't start with Obama so was not his "idea." That's false.

"A review of data from Immigration and Customs Enforcement shows that over the last 25 years, it has been on a nearly constant upswing as every successive presidential administration has expanded detention and deportation practices in response to the national debate on immigration."

But it is true that Trump is detaining more and more people: "Since taking office, the Trump administration’s ramp up of immigration enforcement and the introduction of a zero-tolerance policy for illegal border crossers has resulted in the federal government holding more migrants in detention than ever before. The average number of people in detention on any day has grown by more than 40 percent during Trump’s two years in office."

Which is leading to worse and worse conditions.

Facts.


  • NorthStar
  • Expert Waygook

    • 804

    • July 05, 2017, 10:54:06 am
    • Mouseville
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2019, 09:55:27 pm »
Quote
It didn't start with Obama so was not his "idea." That's false.

"A review of data from Immigration and Customs Enforcement shows that over the last 25 years, it has been on a nearly constant upswing as every successive presidential administration has expanded detention and deportation practices in response to the national debate on immigration."

But it is true that Trump is detaining more and more people: "Since taking office, the Trump administration’s ramp up of immigration enforcement and the introduction of a zero-tolerance policy for illegal border crossers has resulted in the federal government holding more migrants in detention than ever before. The average number of people in detention on any day has grown by more than 40 percent during Trump’s two years in office."

Which is leading to worse and worse conditions.

Facts.

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  • Adel
  • Expert Waygook

    • 667

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2019, 05:21:12 am »
https://www.propublica.org/article/secret-border-patrol-facebook-group-agents-joke-about-migrant-deaths-post-sexist-memes
(WARNING IMAGES NOT SAFE AT WORK) scroll carefully.

Some pretty disturbing online behavior from these border patrol agents. It's pretty clear who has set the tone and lead by  example so I guess nobody should be that surprised. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 05:26:05 am by Adel »


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1657

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2019, 08:18:55 am »
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/451456-federal-judge-blocks-barr-order-on-indefinite-detention-for-asylum

Quote
A federal judge on Tuesday blocked an order from Attorney General William Barr that stated certain asylum seekers can be detained indefinitely.
U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman in Washington state wrote that it was "unconstitutional" to deny asylum seekers a bond hearing while they wait for their asylum claims to be processed.
“It is the finding of this Court that it is unconstitutional to deny these class members a bond hearing while they await a final determination of their asylum request,” Pechman, a Clinton appointee, wrote in her ruling.
The judge had issued a preliminary injunction earlier this year that required asylum seekers who are given a hearing in their proceedings to be released within seven days after that hearing is granted.
The Trump administration had asked her to dismiss that ruling, after Barr issued his new asylum order. But Pechman rejected the request in her order on Tuesday, finding that the policy implemented by Barr’s order was unconstitutional.
The attorney general had written in the order, issued in April, that asylum seekers who are able to demonstrate a "credible fear" and are sent to full deportation proceedings cannot be released on bond.
That directive overturned a ruling by the Board of Immigration Appeals in 2005 that found asylum-seekers could be released on bond if they are able to exhibit they have credible fear of persecution or danger if they leave the U.S.
“I conclude that such aliens remain ineligible for bond, whether they are arriving at the border or are apprehended in the United States,” Barr wrote at the time, invoking a statute included in the Immigration and Nationality Act.
Pechman wrote that she was adjusting her previous preliminary injunction requiring the release of those impacted asylum seekers to also address Barr's order, and that the new injunctions will go into effect within 14 days of it being issued.
The judge cited a previous Supreme Court ruling that “definitively established the immigrant detainees’ constitutionally-protected interest in freedom from unnecessary incarceration.”
And she wrote that the immigrants are “are entitled to due process protections,” including a “longstanding prohibition against indefinite civil detention with no opportunity to test its necessity.”
“The Court finds that Plaintiffs have established a constitutionally-protected interest in their liberty, a right to due process which includes a hearing before a neutral decisionmaker to assess the necessity of their detention, and a likelihood of success on the merits of that issue,” Pechman wrote.
And the judge again ruled that the asylum seekers are likely to face “irreparable harm” under the policy.
“All the harms attendant upon their prolonged detention cited in the original ruling on Plaintiffs’ request for injunctive relief remain applicable here – substandard physical conditions, low standards of medical care, lack of access to attorneys and evidence as Plaintiffs prepare their cases, separation from their families, and re-traumatization of a population already found to have legitimate circumstances of victimization,” the ruling states.
Pechman also pushed back against the administration’s argument that the potential harm was “speculative,” saying that those claims “lack substance.”
However, she said she didn’t believe that the asylum seekers would win by alleging that Barr violated federal administrative law with his order.
The Hill has reached out to the Justice Department for comment.
Several immigration groups had challenged the policy in court on behalf of the asylum seekers.
Michael Tan, a senior staff attorney with the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project, said in a statement that the Trump administration ”cannot circumvent the Constitution in its effort to deter and punish asylum-seekers applying for protection.”

Trina Realmuto, the directing attorney of the American Immigration Council, similarly celebrated the order.
“Today’s decision safeguards many asylum-seekers from the attorney general’s unlawful efforts to keep them incarcerated indefinitely while they seek protection from persecution and ensures that they have prompt bond hearings with basic due process protections,” Realmuto said.
And Matt Adams, the legal director of the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project, said in a similar statement that “thousands of asylum-seekers will continue to be able to seek release on bond, as they seek protection from persecution and torture.”
The ruling comes amid attempts by the Trump administration to crack down on asylum rules.
President Trump late last month had delayed planned immigration raids, saying that Congress had two weeks to pass restrictions on the asylum laws. But the president said Monday that those raids would begin after July Fourth.
House Democrats have opposed passing any asylum restrictions, and much of the two week period takes place as lawmakers are away from Capitol Hill on recess.
[/size]
 http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/451456-federal-judge-blocks-barr-order-on-indefinite-detention-for-asylum?jwsource=cl


  • Adel
  • Expert Waygook

    • 667

    • January 30, 2015, 12:50:26 am
    • The Abyss
    more
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2019, 07:04:20 pm »
Quote
It didn't start with Obama so was not his "idea." That's false.

"A review of data from Immigration and Customs Enforcement shows that over the last 25 years, it has been on a nearly constant upswing as every successive presidential administration has expanded detention and deportation practices in response to the national debate on immigration."

But it is true that Trump is detaining more and more people: "Since taking office, the Trump administration’s ramp up of immigration enforcement and the introduction of a zero-tolerance policy for illegal border crossers has resulted in the federal government holding more migrants in detention than ever before. The average number of people in detention on any day has grown by more than 40 percent during Trump’s two years in office."

Which is leading to worse and worse conditions.

Facts.

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  • Dweebs1
  • Veteran

    • 103

    • December 07, 2010, 02:52:11 pm
    • Yeongwol, Gangwon-do
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #50 on: July 04, 2019, 08:02:04 am »
I think that both sides of the government should work together to solve the problem.


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1657

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #51 on: July 04, 2019, 08:50:03 am »
I think that both sides of the government should work together to solve the problem.
This is actually a good point. Obama was bad but Trump is terrible in terms of immigration policy.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3794

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2019, 08:08:35 am »
I think that both sides of the government should work together to solve the problem.
Many on both sides have been working together to solve this problem going back at least to Bush, who actually campaigned on creating a path for illegal immigrants to stay in the US legally. The problem is the far right, who refuse any compromise on this issue and who are now trump's strongest supporters.

So if you want a solution, vote Democrat!


Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2019, 08:46:56 pm »
The Democrats are openly campaigning on free healthcare for illegals, decriminalizing illegal border crossing, and massively expanding the welfare state. In other words they are advocating de facto open borders, while also increasing the incentives to cross the border at a time when significant industries are about to be wiped out over the next 10-20 years by automation and AI. This is simply not sustainable.

You can have a generous welfare state with a stable economy and population sizes. You can have de facto open borders without a generous welfare state. To have what the Democrats want, you either need to do everything you can to curtail illegal entry and regulate numbers and disincentivize overwhelming numbers of people trying to enter.

Now, that being said, the Republicans and Trump aren't exactly offering the best alternatives either. Yes, a lot of this stuff started under Obama. Yes, the deaths that everyone is freaking out over are below the mortality rate in the United States as a whole. Yes, the situation at the detention centers is a result of a surge, rather that has overwhelmed facilities, rather than Hitler Trump. Yes, it is ridiculous to call the places concentration camps. Yes, a big problem is the definition for refugee being reduced to something one step away from "I kind of don't like where I live right now." All that being said, building a wall is a stop-gap solution at best and more likely ineffective and a waste of money and the detention centers could be much better run. That and SOME on the right are indeed acting out of an ugly strain of nativism and xenophobia (of course the left has its own soft bigotry of "Everyone who comes here will magically turn into a great progressive American, just like me!" *Sprays self with virtue signal scent and thanks illegals for their true purpose: Helping a leftist feel better about themselves*).

So what's the solution? I think it IS both sides. The President needs to activate FEMA and do something to improve conditions. The Democrats need to realize that unlimited resources don't exist and sometimes you have to hit some people with oars to prevent them from swamping the lifeboat and taking everyone down. Do what you can to ramp up security in a SMART fashion and do what you can to disincentivize illegal entry. Protect DREAMers, boot out others. Go back to old definitions of being a refugee. Push other countries to take in refugees as well.

Most importantly STOP interfering politically in Latin America and promoting the causes of instability. Additionally instead of having detention centers North of the border, establish special joint economic holding and entry zones just south of the border that allow people who want to enter to gather there, work in factories and other businesses located there, maybe even set up their own businesses to cater to the people seeking entry, and use those as springboards to welcoming new people to the US, thereby incentivizing people to not enter illegally, before entering legally.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3794

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2019, 08:58:24 am »
The Democrats are openly campaigning on free healthcare for illegals, decriminalizing illegal border crossing, and massively expanding the welfare state. In other words they are advocating de facto open borders, while also increasing the incentives to cross the border at a time when significant industries are about to be wiped out over the next 10-20 years by automation and AI. This is simply not sustainable.

You can have a generous welfare state with a stable economy and population sizes. You can have de facto open borders without a generous welfare state. To have what the Democrats want, you either need to do everything you can to curtail illegal entry and regulate numbers and disincentivize overwhelming numbers of people trying to enter.

Now, that being said, the Republicans and Trump aren't exactly offering the best alternatives either. Yes, a lot of this stuff started under Obama. Yes, the deaths that everyone is freaking out over are below the mortality rate in the United States as a whole. Yes, the situation at the detention centers is a result of a surge, rather that has overwhelmed facilities, rather than Hitler Trump. Yes, it is ridiculous to call the places concentration camps. Yes, a big problem is the definition for refugee being reduced to something one step away from "I kind of don't like where I live right now." All that being said, building a wall is a stop-gap solution at best and more likely ineffective and a waste of money and the detention centers could be much better run. That and SOME on the right are indeed acting out of an ugly strain of nativism and xenophobia (of course the left has its own soft bigotry of "Everyone who comes here will magically turn into a great progressive American, just like me!" *Sprays self with virtue signal scent and thanks illegals for their true purpose: Helping a leftist feel better about themselves*).

So what's the solution? I think it IS both sides. The President needs to activate FEMA and do something to improve conditions. The Democrats need to realize that unlimited resources don't exist and sometimes you have to hit some people with oars to prevent them from swamping the lifeboat and taking everyone down. Do what you can to ramp up security in a SMART fashion and do what you can to disincentivize illegal entry. Protect DREAMers, boot out others. Go back to old definitions of being a refugee. Push other countries to take in refugees as well.

Most importantly STOP interfering politically in Latin America and promoting the causes of instability. Additionally instead of having detention centers North of the border, establish special joint economic holding and entry zones just south of the border that allow people who want to enter to gather there, work in factories and other businesses located there, maybe even set up their own businesses to cater to the people seeking entry, and use those as springboards to welcoming new people to the US, thereby incentivizing people to not enter illegally, before entering legally.
You greatly simplify Democrats positions and then, after leaving out all the details, claim they are unsustainable. That won't wash.

We can't push other countries to take refugees when we aren't taking any. You lead by example, not by lying.

SOME on the right? No, by staying quiet, all on the right are condoning trump and miller's white supremacist agenda.

You could take all the corn pone analogies you have ever posted on this forum and not get a single fluid ounce of ethanol from them, much less the juicy excuses you seem to believe they are. You didn't learn much on the farm, did you?



Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2019, 11:17:17 am »
We can't push other countries to take refugees when we aren't taking any. You lead by example, not by lying.
We're taking zero refugees?


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3794

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2019, 07:28:36 am »
We can't push other countries to take refugees when we aren't taking any. You lead by example, not by lying.
We're taking zero refugees?
That's the current administration's goal. "We're full up."

Are you just playing dumb or is is that, out there on the farm, you're way  behind on the news.


  • T_Rex
  • Adventurer

    • 69

    • April 23, 2019, 08:10:20 am
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2019, 12:39:02 pm »
Awesome! Trump wants to save US taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. 22 million welfare-dependent immigrants will be blocked from obtaining permanent residency and citizenship.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3794

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2019, 07:10:13 pm »
Awesome! Trump wants to save US taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. 22 million welfare-dependent immigrants will be blocked from obtaining permanent residency and citizenship.
It's not going to save billions of dollars. Immigrants come to work, not collect welfare. They pay taxes, something trump and the rich repubs represent don't.

Actually, trump is costing americans billions with his trade war. Don;t forget the deficit!


  • T_Rex
  • Adventurer

    • 69

    • April 23, 2019, 08:10:20 am
Re: What are your thoughts on the current US migration issue?
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2019, 10:40:18 am »
"Trump administration ends relief program for immigrants with medical issues"
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-ends-relief-program-immigrants-medical-issues/story?id=65252446

About time. The more they can freeload the more they will show up.