Online PGCE

Thanks for the heads up sleepy. I wasn't planning on getting NQT or QTS with my PGCE, which is why I chose this course. The plan is to try to register for and do the NQT year at an international school while teaching the British Curriculum...or do the licensure exam in one of the US states and convert that to QTS.

Korea really sucks for international schools. Some are great, but I've heard horror stories even for the proper ones without naming any names. For example there are reports of teachers not getting paid on time or not getting paid for months on end...and this isn't 2.2 hagwon pay either, we're talking salaries in excess of 5k USD per month, so imagine someone not getting their salary for 3-4 months!

Certificate and official transcript came in today.

No mention of "online" on either...but the transcript does say part time, which isn't an issue as far as I'm aware. It has been a great journey so far, not at the end yet as I plan to turn this into another master degree (60 credits down, 120 to go), and eventually a PhD hopefully by the time I'm in my 40s lol.

Congrats dude, you must be buzzing today :) Which route are you thinking of taking for your MA? I'm heading home for my PGCE in a few short weeks (start September 4th) and thanks to corona mine might be mostly online too!

Thank you Datasapien!

The only option I'm considering at the moment is to continue studying part time while working, which means I'll be be done with the master by 2023 assuming a September 2021 start. I'm shopping around to see if I can slide some extra teaching certs in as part of the masters (eg IB myp or dp teaching cert...or A level teaching cert).

Good luck with your program! Feel free to update us on how it goes, I'm sure there are more than a few people here, myself included, who would find your updates helpful.

Korea really sucks for international schools. Some are great, but I've heard horror stories even for the proper ones without naming any names. For example there are reports of teachers not getting paid on time or not getting paid for months on end...and this isn't 2.2 hagwon pay either, we're talking salaries in excess of 5k USD per month, so imagine someone not getting their salary for 3-4 months!

So what countries are good for international schools these days? I heard Thailand has some decently paid gigs.

Congrats waygo0k, on your achievement! Hopefully I'll be joining your ranks soon.

Thank you Theman3285!

Teaching at a Thai international school would be a dream. The good ones will pay around 3million won at the low end and around 5.8 million won at the High end...with everyday living costs cheap as chips. I think there are up to 100 proper international schools in the country...if nor more.

If we're talking about the sheer volume of fully accredited international schools, nobody beats China (500-700, plus another 1000 partially accredited, plus at least another 1000 private schools)...more and more are opening even in the middle of the pandemic.

In terms of quality of teaching, pay and the whole package, this is just my opinion but schools in Japan seem to be the most selective when seeking new teachers...but they make sure you have more than a comfortable renumeration package. When I was looking last year the average pay was around 8 million won per month.

This is followed closely by schools in the middle East (particularly UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar)...5 million won is considered to be on the lower end of average pay there, and salaries can go up to 10 million won for the most experienced teachers with the best qualifications...ta x free with living expenses usually but not always covered.

I've seen 2 job offers in Hong Kong offering $100,000 per year (US dollars) plus living expenses...but there are plenty of schools there as well and they pay similar to the middle East, with very high expectations of their teachers.

excellent. congrats waygo0k!

Thank you OG! 

Thanks, wago0k, for being such a generous well of information.

Do the figures you mentioned above apply to English teachers, do you think? I re-read this thread and it seems things are a little rosier for teachers of other subjects, like yourself. I wonder just how competitive the international circuit is for English teachers, especially ones trained outside of British/American curriculums.

Hello Theman3285,

As far as I know, English teachers at international schools get paid the same as everyone else. Some schools might negotiate contracts separately with teachers (e.g. China), but in that scenario what you get depends on your negotiation skills and not the subject you teach.

However, you will need to be highly trained/credentialed when teaching English at these schools, as the field is over saturated. The ESL/EFL field does spill over into the international circuit at some point, so there is an oversupply of English teachers...but not necessarily an oversupply of teachers a lot of schools would deem as qualified.

If your degree is in the same (or a related) subject and you're licensed in a recognised country, you would be qualified for most schools. It is not uncommon for teachers (of all subjects) at these schools to hold masters and doctorates.

If your degree is in the subject (or related) and you're certified but not licensed (e.g. you did an accredited post graduate education course), you'd be a competitive candidate but at the lower end of the spectrum...and of a course a related master's makes you slightly more competitive.

Also note that this won't be ESL/EFL, but more like the English you did back in your youth (literature, poetry, language etc).

I should end by saying these things aren't always as black and white. Some of the schools that deem you 'unqualified' one year might suddenly be interested in you the next...and vice versa. For example I've had 3 schools in the middle east email me in the past 3 months wandering if I wanted to interview with them, this was after all of them told me I wasn't a strong enough candidate late last year/early this year. I've updated my CV since then, but none of them have the new version.

Thought I’d give a further update for those who might still be considering doing their PGCE.

UK unis are now offering what they call a PGCEi (also fully online)…a specialised course for those teaching abroad. I would advise against doing this route for the time being, as word in the grapevine is that a number of the tier 1 (and even tier 2) schools worldwide won’t recognise it as a legitimate qualification! It might take years before the PGCEi gets accepted on equal footing as a “regular” PGCE.

On the waygo0k front, things have moved forward at a faster pace than I could ever have imagined back when I was starting this thread. After having several interviews with schools inside and outside of China, I’ve been offered one contract that is in the 100m KRW range per year gross with a very well known world school…the temptation to accept this offer is too strong to resist and the only thing that is preventing me from doing so is I’m waiting for the outcome of an interview with another school in Hong Kong (which would be my first choice). Both schools are offering a similar salary, so whatever happens I will hopefully be walking home with around 80m KRW net yearly starting from September 2022!

This would have been impossible without my PGCE and the going-to-two-years-experience I will have with my current international school.

The other word on the street is the international school market outside of China is incredibly competitive this year due to several factors, with the biggest factor being a huge exodus of teachers from China flooding other markets. Teachers are leaving for a host of reasons (some are scared of the new laws, some are tired of not being able to travel home for 2+ years, others have reached the end of their tolerance for the country etc). The other big factor is schools not being sure whether they’d be able to get new hires into the country on time (if at all)…so keep that in mind if you’re looking to enter the international school market in the next 6-12 months.

Eight specified thank yous on this page alone.
Did i walk into a cult?
Creepy.
What is a PGCE anyway? I should google it. It's probably a Brit thing.

EDIT:

The Postgraduate Certificate in Education (PGCE/PGCertEd) is a one- or two-year higher education course in England, Wales and Northern Ireland which provides training in order to allow graduates to become teachers within maintained schools.

It's a certificate in the British Isles!

Huh. I learned something today.

Nah you didn’t walk into a cult lol. You simply stumbled onto a thread on career progression from ESL to full international school subject teaching. I’m not the first, second or even 1000th person to do it, but I am one of the newest kids on the block in the IS circuit.

This is a journey that started back in winter of 2018 (technically winter of 2017 when I first started to seriously consider the idea, I only began to take action the following year), and it is far from over! Another master’s degree is on the horizon, as well as further professional development in the field afterwards. By the end of it all (hopefully 2-3 decades from now), I want to be able to say I’ve lead 2-3 global schools successfully, walking away with a pension that would make even hagwon owners do a double take.

Is PGCE higher than a DELTA?

They are both level 7 (masters level) courses, but the PGCE takes one academic year to complete while the DELTA can be done in a couple of months.

DELTA is specifically for ESL/EAL teaching and management, while the PGCE covers education theory and pedagogy more broadly, and can be adapted for specific subject fields.

Which is more recognisable? It depends on the market you’re looking at. A DELTA certificate would be more valued in the ESL/EAL world, while a PGCE certificate would be more valued in more “traditional” education settings and international school settings.