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  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3835

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2019, 10:40:39 am »

I'd be fine with option B and wouldn't have a lot of sympathy for the sex tourist who, unless he was very stupid, would have an inkling he was mainly being used as an ATM. My problem is with Thai women having multiple foreign partners all sending them money, unaware of the existence of the others. Many of these women probably make more money than an English teacher. This would be classified as a crime in the West (gaining money by deception) and probably in Thailand too, though I don't know the law there.  I assume you're not OK with Nigerian scammers chatting up middle aged western women online then asking them for money?

Yeah, it's a crap thing to do...but in today's world, anyone still sending money to strangers deserves to be scammed. Most of these guys spend what, a few weeks a year at most with their Thai girlfriends and expect total loyalty and commitment? Better to go find a puppy lol.

Scamming people for international remittances is illegal, but let's not pretend what these guys are doing can also be interpreted as illegal (sex tourism).


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2019, 11:27:13 am »
English teachers have an advantage in this regard.

Guys coming from England must marry their Thai to be with them. English teachers could live there and not fall for the scam because we wouldn't have to marry anyone. We would see their real personality which would inevitably come through eventually.

The real danger for these guys is they work their rears off paying a mortgage only for a foreign wife to divorce them and demand half their assets/


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4519

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2019, 11:39:22 am »
Yeah, it's a crap thing to do...but in today's world, anyone still sending money to strangers deserves to be scammed.

This is where I disagree.

There are two ways to approach this.

A: "He deserved this."

B: "Wow, no one should be surprised this happened to him."

I think it's really callous to hold position A. Why does he deserve it? The results of A and B are the same, but why deserve?

If a man doesn't look both ways before crossing the street and is struck and seriously hurt, or killed, do you say the same thing? "He wasn't careful, he deserved it."

OR

You could say, "Damn, he really should have been more careful. Poor guy That's why we look both ways, kids."

It doesn't take any effort to have a little empathy.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 11:44:52 am by CO2 »
The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2019, 11:46:06 am »
Especially since the scammers themselves use this as a justification for their activities.


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3835

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2019, 11:59:22 am »

This is where I disagree.

There are two ways to approach this.

A: "He deserved this."

B: "Wow, no one should be surprised this happened to him."

I think it's really callous to hold position A. Why does he deserve it? The results of A and B are the same, but why deserve?

Because this is 2019, not 1999, not 1989 or even 1979. There are thousands of stories of these scams happening in almost identical fashion. If someone doesn't do their homework and due diligence before taking the plunge, why should I bother feeling sorry for them?

If a man doesn't look both ways before crossing the street and is struck and seriously hurt, or killed, do you say the same thing? "He wasn't careful, he deserved it."

I wouldn't say just any street. If a man doesn't look both ways before crossing the main intersection outside Gangnam Station, despite there being reports and warnings of multiple deaths and injuries over the years of the exact same thing happening to others at that same location...doesn't he at least deserve some of whatever might happen?

Quote
You could say, "Damn, he really should have been more careful. Poor guy That's why we look both ways, kids."

It doesn't take any effort to have a little empathy.

I have empathy for these guys. If I were caught in the situation where I got scammed like that, I wouldn't want anyone to feel sorry for me either. I'd realise I didn't do my homework and got burned for it.

At the same time, I also have empathy for the women. I couldn't begin to imagine the kind of poverty they grew up in that would shape them into being hardened scammers and manipulators...at the end of the day, they are willing to do anything to escape that vicious cycle.


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2019, 12:10:57 pm »
This is where I disagree.

There are two ways to approach this.

A: "He deserved this."

B: "Wow, no one should be surprised this happened to him."

I'm kind of in two minds about this.  I try and show empathy to people as much as possible but I think in some situations I will always think of (A), as bad as it sounds.  people have free will, they make their choices and should stand by them.  if I do something stupid then I'm perfectly fine for people to think I deserved it, as it's my choice that I made and I stand by it.  if I travel to the Philippines and I see a guy walking around flashing an expensive camera,phone etc and looking as though he has a bit of money on him and therefore got robbed of their camera etc then I'll probably think they deserved it, 8 times out of 10 nothing happens to them, but simply by increasing your chances, when you should know better, gets less sympathy from me.  people know they shouldn't send money to anonymous people t not as if it's a new thing, and there will be some rare times where nothing bad happens but simply by making that decision you're increasing your chances of something bad happening.   i tend to think of percentages with most things in how I would view my reaction to be an (A) or (B).


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2019, 12:38:13 pm »
Quote
if I travel to the Philippines and I see a guy walking around flashing an expensive camera,phone etc and looking as though he has a bit of money on him and therefore got robbed of their camera etc then I'll probably think they deserved it,

Would you feel the same about a woman walking round on her own late at night in a revealing outfit who got raped?


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2019, 01:14:47 pm »
Quote
if I travel to the Philippines and I see a guy walking around flashing an expensive camera,phone etc and looking as though he has a bit of money on him and therefore got robbed of their camera etc then I'll probably think they deserved it,

Would you feel the same about a woman walking round on her own late at night in a revealing outfit who got raped?

no, as that is a fairly extreme example and much less likely in the 'what if?' scheme of things.  the likelihood of being robbed/pick-pocketed on holiday is higher than being raped.  to me, both involve an element of personal responsibility though.  when I was growing up and would go out clubbing or drinking with female friends, we'd make sure they got home safely, so as not to increase any chances of bad things happening, even if that meant walking them home.  if me and my male friends got jumped (didn't happen) then so be it.  i would love for people to be able to walk around as they wish night or day without risk of harm or injury, but that isn't the way the world is.   i would also hazard at a wild guess that in most cases whether a female is wearing something revealing or not doesn't really matter.  if she encounters any blokes, who are dead set on raping someone, then her outfit makes no difference. 


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2019, 01:21:25 pm »
A few things-
1. Wasn't there a thread on this before? I could have sworn there was
2. There's a limit to not blaming the victim. I say the line crosses from general unawareness to active stupidity.

Put it this way, if a rookie platoon leader gets his men ambushed, you don't blame him. However if he proceeds to march through the forest while banging pots and pans and not having anyone stand guard at night, then yeah, it's his fault. Or to paraphrase Bill Burr, "Were you poking the snake with stick?"

I'm not sure where this falls on that spectrum.


  • tomoakleaf
  • Veteran

    • 153

    • September 22, 2012, 03:38:47 pm
    • South Korea
Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2019, 01:25:50 pm »
Here is another British gentleman looking for love in Seoul, Korea.  https://youtu.be/1SCsJ1ZLVUM


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2019, 01:38:57 pm »

[/quote]

A few things-
1. Wasn't there a thread on this before? I could have sworn there was
2. There's a limit to not blaming the victim. I say the line crosses from general unawareness to active stupidity.

Put it this way, if a rookie platoon leader gets his men ambushed, you don't blame him. However if he proceeds to march through the forest while banging pots and pans and not having anyone stand guard at night, then yeah, it's his fault. Or to paraphrase Bill Burr, "Were you poking the snake with stick?"

I'm not sure where this falls on that spectrum.

Yes it does sound familiar.

There's probably a bit of victim privilege as well. Women always trump men in the feeling sorry for stakes and the poor always trump the rich.  The guy walking around the Philippines with an expensive camera fails on two levels. The comparatively rich socially or physically inadequate guy trying to find a girlfriend in Thailand  fails on multiple levels.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 01:40:42 pm by eggieguffer »


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2019, 01:51:01 pm »
The guy walking around the Philippines with an expensive camera fails on two levels.

it was an example, I'll try and be as gender neutral next time, to avoid this kind of thing coming up again and again in different threads.  from now on, I'll use 'perkin' in any situation to denote gender neutrality.  if the person flashing a camera around in the Philippines had been a woman it would have been exactly the same reaction.   :rolleyes:


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2019, 01:57:39 pm »
The guy walking around the Philippines with an expensive camera fails on two levels.

it was an example, I'll try and be as gender neutral next time, to avoid this kind of thing coming up again and again in different threads.  from now on, I'll use 'perkin' in any situation to denote gender neutrality.  if the person flashing a camera around in the Philippines had been a woman it would have been exactly the same reaction.   :rolleyes:

Nothing wrong with admitting you feel more protective/sorrier for certain sections of society it's a natural human reaction.

If you want to be gender neutral, why not just use 'someone' or 'person' like you just did?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 05:55:00 pm by eggieguffer »


  • tomoakleaf
  • Veteran

    • 153

    • September 22, 2012, 03:38:47 pm
    • South Korea
Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2019, 02:17:01 pm »
There are some great youtubers in Thailand such as 'Cheap Charlie' or '20 Seconds in Thailand' and 'Harld Balder', 'Kev In Thailand', 'Sweet Guy Pattaya' who also represent foreigners who just live in Asia and enjoy the life out here.  Lots of expats may come out here looking for love but actually may just find that they enjoy the lifestyle out here.  Also, look at the reddit China forum for a good video.


  • LIC
  • Veteran

    • 205

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2019, 09:55:07 am »
Quote
Can’t blame or fault her though.

So poverty trumps morality? We can hold these people to different standards than our own?

They cannot afford “our” morality.

Yer darn right poverty trumps morality. Have you ever been poor? Like these people? With an extreme few ways out? I seriously doubt it.

Walk a km in their sandals. Everything is different when you're rich, and every one of us here is rich compared to far too large a percentage of SE Asians.


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2019, 10:04:21 am »
Quote
Can’t blame or fault her though.

So poverty trumps morality? We can hold these people to different standards than our own?

They cannot afford “our” morality.

Yer darn right poverty trumps morality. Have you ever been poor? Like these people? With an extreme few ways out? I seriously doubt it.

Walk a km in their sandals. Everything is different when you're rich, and every one of us here is rich compared to far too large a percentage of SE Asians.

Sorry, but this is the mindset of a primary school kid.  Most dirt poor Thais would be able to think more critically than this.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 11:21:02 am by eggieguffer »


  • LIC
  • Veteran

    • 205

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2019, 05:47:24 pm »
Quote
Can’t blame or fault her though.

So poverty trumps morality? We can hold these people to different standards than our own?

They cannot afford “our” morality.

Yer darn right poverty trumps morality. Have you ever been poor? Like these people? With an extreme few ways out? I seriously doubt it.

Walk a km in their sandals. Everything is different when you're rich, and every one of us here is rich compared to far too large a percentage of SE Asians.

Sorry, but this is the mindset of a primary school kid.  Most dirt poor Thais would be able to think more critically than this.

Really? How many dirt poor Thais do you know or deal with daily?

Many are my family and or friends.

You come across like a snotty arrogant privileged western punk who has no idea what the other hall's life is like.


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2019, 06:11:08 pm »
Quote
Really? How many dirt poor Thais do you know or deal with daily?

Many are my family and or friends.

And they're all out committing crimes all the time are they?


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2019, 07:09:44 am »
Quote
Really? How many dirt poor Thais do you know or deal with daily?

Many are my family and or friends.

And they're all out committing crimes all the time are they?

riiiight. poverty and crime are in no way related...  :rolleyes:

also no one said "all the time" so get that shit outta here


Re: English gentlemen going abroad for love
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2019, 07:14:28 am »
Quote
Really? How many dirt poor Thais do you know or deal with daily?

Many are my family and or friends.

And they're all out committing crimes all the time are they?

riiiight. poverty and crime are in no way related...  :rolleyes:

also no one said "all the time" so get that shit outta here

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here, did you even bother to read the whole exchange, or did you think 'Eggie's having a go at poor people, I'll wade in here?' I'm the one defending poor people, saying that despite their poverty the majority still know the difference between right and wrong. I don't think his relatives are out on the rob all the time, despite their poverty. He's the one claiming poverty overrides morality and that the majority of Thai people think like him.  If that was the case, Thailand would have a higher crime rate than the US and over 50% of the population would have a criminal record. Which it doesn't and they haven't. 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 07:31:23 am by eggieguffer »