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  • Piggydee
  • The Legend

    • 2545

    • October 15, 2013, 07:32:43 am
    • South Korea
Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« on: March 11, 2019, 12:08:16 pm »
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-likely-face-questions-another-190406040.html?hl=1&noRedirect=1

This story is very sad.   Also as some one who flew Ethiopian Airlines from Korea to South Africa, I can say it was one of the most enjoyable plane rides I have ever had.  Not a lot of people at the time were flying from Addis Ababa to Korea at the time so I got to have three seats to myself and I slept for 4 hours which is UNHEARD OF for me as a nervous flyer.  The staff was beautifully dressed and very helpful. 




The food was delicious and the In-Flight Entertainment worked with lots of up to date titles and music.  It was one of the most memorable planes rides I have had with a not bump of turbulence the entire flight.  Mind you for someone that watched a lot of Chuck Norris movies and the Captain Philips movie I had my reservations about boarding an African flight.  But they go through all the security checks at Addis Ababa airport if not maybe a little bit more.  And the Ethiopian people seemed really nice and always smiling.  Makes me want to go back for more than a lay over.  Plus I was told from others who have flown with this airline that they were the best in Africa. 


I just recently flew on a 737, I can say I have said  A LOT of prayers on while on these planes.  When I flew with Cathay Pacific I noticed they use AirBus so I didn't feel the need to worry as much. 
But I have a plot friend who is just now learning Boeing planes from AirBus and he can say he absolutely hates it.  He says AriBus is easier and user friendly to learn and handle vs Boeing planes.  He says Boeing planes have backwards systems that make training difficult.  Of course this is worrying for me to hear and I've heard it from other pilots online who have youtube channels who say the same thing.  AirBus is easier. 

So why does he have to fly a Boeing plane.  He said that companies like Boeing because they use less fuel but in my opinion if these planes are going to behave like Toyota cars of the early 2000 (not able to break, accelerating without notice)  then how many more plane accidents it is going to take for airlines and Boeing to wake up and take responsibility.

With these new tragedies are you going to stop flying Boeing planes?  It seems to me that if I'm going to be using RyanAir a lot in my future European travels that I'm going to have to just pray harder of find another airline that doesn't use any 737.  Which for short haul flights might be hard to do.     
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 12:27:46 pm by Piggydee »


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2019, 12:49:39 pm »
We should wait until the report comes in. It could be a problem with this Boeing model or it could be somewhere else in the parts chain. Or it could be pilot error or something else.

Anyways, the data here is a little old, but this should be relevant. Granted it's Quora, but the data looks good.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-plane-crashes-does-Boeing-have-compared-to-Airbus

Now these don't take into account why the crash occurred, so that's something to consider, but it's likely that they have similar rates based on cause.

As for what pilots prefer, a lot of it is familiarity. Every pilot will have their varying praises and gripes about a new aircraft. You ask 300 pilots what they want in a plane, as far as small-medium details (they all want the same thing when it comes to the really big picture), and you'll get 300 different answers.

Air travel is really safe and a lot of the "differences" in airlines are really marginal. People think African airlines are unsafe, but all the major carriers have pretty good safety records. Same with manufacturers such as Boeing, MDD, Airbus, etc. Same with crew resource management. People way overstate things amongst nationalities and "culture" but you're going to encounter issues of seniority and egos anywhere with airlines, particularly because many airlines are staffed with ex-fighter jockeys who all have big egos. And even then, they are really safe means of transport.

Now, it could be that there is a design flaw. That is certainly a real and not unlikely probability, however that can happen with any new model from any manufacturer. Probably the most high-profile example is the DeHaviland Comet, but even then it went on to be a serviceable passenger aircraft.

The only time you should ever be worried is if the mechanics are on strike.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 01:08:38 pm by Mr.DeMartino »


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2019, 01:31:16 pm »
Hope they get to the bottom of this soon. China has grounded all domestic 737 MAX 8s  in the meantime.

Crazy that things like this can happen in this day and age. 


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1486

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2019, 03:06:08 pm »
There are like 40 million commercial flights a year, and maybe like 3 fatal crashes. I wouldn't be to worried about the safety of the two major manufacturers. And they make all kinds of different planes like the 747, Dreamliner... etc. They hold like 98% of the large plane market, and about even on the number of planes that are out there.


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2019, 03:17:37 pm »
I wouldn't be to worried about the safety of the two major manufacturers.
You won't catch me dead on a 737 MAX 8 until this has been resolved. It's all A320s till then.


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4375

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2019, 03:18:59 pm »
You won't catch me dead on a 737 MAX 8 until this has been resolved. It's all A320s till then.

We might, actually.
The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2019, 03:19:35 pm »
You won't catch me dead on a 737 MAX 8 until this has been resolved. It's all A320s till then.

We might, actually.
Yeah I didn't think that one through


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3778

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2019, 03:29:35 pm »
Agreed on Ethiopian Air. They use the 787s from Asia to Addis and that particular flight was always among the best flights I've been on each time I used it. Very attentive stewardesses, and very easy on the eye one must add (the stewardesses and the plane). Food and entertainment did not disappoint...and there were no Delays, even in Ethiopia.

Just heartbreaking to hear the news.

I was going to book super cheap Jeju Air tickets to SE Asia but quickly changed my mind once I noticed the plane would be a 737 (and one of the new ones to boot). I still have a preference for Boeing over Airbus planes...but no way am I flying on a 737 till they figure out what the heck is going on.


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2019, 04:13:58 pm »
There are lots of 737s that aren't the model involved in these two latest crashes. None of the 737s in any Korean fleet are MAXes.


  • LIC
  • Veteran

    • 114

    • February 15, 2019, 04:39:00 pm
    • NE Hemisphere
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 04:36:21 pm »
Tragic about the crash, but it's two out of how many total rotations?

As an aside, how many people can instantly tell the difference between a B737 and an A320 with a quick glance?


  • waygo0k
  • The Legend

    • 3778

    • September 27, 2011, 11:51:01 am
    • Chungnam
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2019, 05:05:45 pm »
For starters, one would have B737 printed on it  :P :P

I did one of my two apprenticeships (mandatory work experience for UK pupils) at the civil aviation authority in a west African country (long story)...and my supervisor at the time, well more like babysitter, used to make me memorise the characteristics of as many models as I could everyday. Back then, I wouldíve been able to tell most Boeings and Airbuses apart...but today all that memoryís floating somewhere in the universe.

Yes, most of the 737s used in Korea arenít the Max version...doesnít mean I canít at least make myself feel better/safer by not trying in the first place.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 05:07:29 pm by waygo0k »


  • Piggydee
  • The Legend

    • 2545

    • October 15, 2013, 07:32:43 am
    • South Korea
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2019, 07:39:07 am »
I was speaking with a friend that was saying Airbus is more of a video game (when in that case I can see why my pilot friend finds it easy) and Boeing it's one of those things "show your work, do the math" type planes.  So it makes me wonder if Airbus is so easy peasy and in the event the automation doesn't work properly and pilots aren't trained to show their work, do you think that makes Airbus just as dangerous in case of an emergency.  People might argue that Boeing is better because a pilot is forced to do the work because there is less automation.   :undecided: Things to be consider.   As if getting myself on a plane isn't stressful enough.  It's come a point where flying feels like risky behavior like sky diving or bungee jumping LOL.  :cheesy: :cry:


  • Piggydee
  • The Legend

    • 2545

    • October 15, 2013, 07:32:43 am
    • South Korea
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2019, 08:11:17 am »
There are like 40 million commercial flights a year, and maybe like 3 fatal crashes. I wouldn't be to worried about the safety of the two major manufacturers. And they make all kinds of different planes like the 747, Dreamliner... etc. They hold like 98% of the large plane market, and about even on the number of planes that are out there.

Good point.  But that's kind of like saying "The United States is a safe country because only 40,000 people die of gun violence in the US when you put it against their 325 million population.  So 40,000 is not a lot when put in comparison.

I mean just the 5 month span alone from Lion Air to this plane crash.  346 people is a lot of people to wipe out at any one given time  :shocked:.  I mean honestly yes you are right air travel is safer than say cars, when everyday throughout the world car accidents are prevalent.  But if we could honestly say that only one plane crash happens out of the year, who really wants to be the "one" to be on that doomed plane.  That's why  I say flying feels dangerous to me.  But necessary if you want to go anywhere!  So roll of the dice I guess  :sad:


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2019, 08:29:08 am »
There are like 40 million commercial flights a year, and maybe like 3 fatal crashes. I wouldn't be to worried about the safety of the two major manufacturers. And they make all kinds of different planes like the 747, Dreamliner... etc. They hold like 98% of the large plane market, and about even on the number of planes that are out there.

Good point.  But that's kind of like saying "The United States is a safe country because only 40,000 people die of gun violence in the US when you put it against their 325 million population.  So 40,000 is not a lot when put in comparison.

I mean just the 5 month span alone from Lion Air to this plane crash.  346 people is a lot of people to wipe out at any one given time  :shocked:.  I mean honestly yes you are right air travel is safer than say cars, when everyday throughout the world car accidents are prevalent.  But if we could honestly say that only one plane crash happens out of the year, who really wants to be the "one" to be on that doomed plane.  That's why  I say flying feels dangerous to me.  But necessary if you want to go anywhere!  So roll of the dice I guess  :sad:

There are 6 possible outcomes on the roll of a dice so just slightly less than the 1 in 11 million chance of a plane crashing (internet).  :huh:

You can never be too safe though. I mean 90 people have died in the time it took  me to compose this message.

http://www.ecology.com/birth-death-rates/
Who is here in 2019?


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2019, 08:40:15 am »
I know this is only tangentially related, but I'm curious as to whether any of you have spent time in Addis Ababa? It's the African capital I'd most like to visit. Interesting history, delicious food and coffee and - I assume - a bounty of rare Ethiopian jazz records. I'd love to go some day.


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1486

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2019, 09:09:04 am »
I know this is only tangentially related, but I'm curious as to whether any of you have spent time in Addis Ababa? It's the African capital I'd most like to visit. Interesting history, delicious food and coffee and - I assume - a bounty of rare Ethiopian jazz records. I'd love to go some day.
Have never actually been, but it's one of Africa's fastest growing economies. And Bourdain did an episode there which made me put it on my bucket list. It looks promising, and if the government manages it right, could be a South Korea like success story. Something other African countries may want to emulate in 20 years.

The thing that impressed me is that they tell tourists not to give money, or buy stuff, from kids, since they want kids in school. And if they make money on the street it discourages them from going to school.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 09:11:10 am by pkjh »


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2019, 09:18:04 am »
Ah, I actually haven't seen that Bourdain episode - will need to check it out. I fell in love with Ethiopian food after going to a restaurant in Berkeley as a teenager and ate it as often as possible when I lived in London. There are 2 or 3 Ethiopian restaurants here in Seoul but I haven't been to any of them yet. Something to try this weekend, I think.


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2019, 09:26:41 am »
and ate it as often as possible when I lived in London.

went to one in Kentish Town years ago.  Queen of Sheba is think it was called.  Amazing food.  can't beat injera.


Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2019, 09:31:42 am »
Flying has maybe 20 people involved that are highly trained and experienced and are paid well and know when to shut up who could make a mistake.

Driving you pass 20 yahoos every minute, many of whom are poorly trained, inexperienced, drunk, and distracted by 3 other people yelling at them.

I'll take the plane. #3 after the horse and the train.


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1486

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2019, 09:47:58 am »
Flying has maybe 20 people involved that are highly trained and experienced and are paid well and know when to shut up who could make a mistake.

Driving you pass 20 yahoos every minute, many of whom are poorly trained, inexperienced, drunk, and distracted by 3 other people yelling at them.

I'll take the plane. #3 after the horse and the train.
It's the feeling of control that makes people not think about driving, or biking. And a fighting chance of surviving an accident on the ground. But, on an airplane you have no control, and the chances of surviving a crash is pretty slim. Saying that, the newer planes and recent crashes in the last 10-ish years have resulted in a surprisingly large number of survivors. IIRC that Asiana crash landing, a few years back, only had 2 casualties.