Read 5015 times

  • Chester Jim
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1078

    • March 05, 2015, 02:17:12 pm
    • Arkansas
    more
Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2019, 02:30:41 am »
It's certainly symptomatic of a larger problem.
The problem, of course, being America's outrageous level of political polarization.
People seem to be treating political parties like they do their favourite sports teams: they blindly support even the most ridiculous doggerel while hating everybody else because they're not "my team".

Fix stupid blind partisanship, and you'll fix the problem that will otherwise eventually sink the US.  :sad:
Thatís amazin.
This is the oldest lefist argument/trick in the world.   Just stop debate, says Stalin, and agree. 
Democrats need to come down to Earth and explain Exactly what they think.    If you wanna take away guns, say it.  If you wanna kill babies, say it.  If you hate old white men, say it.  If you hate America, say it.   
If you donít want to do those things, then prove to everybody that you donít.    Say I love the US, not ď I love the US the same way other people love their countries.Ē 
The Republicans have nothing to gain from working with Democrats  .   The democrats want open borders and hope to side with globalist Koch bro republicans.  If thatís bipartisanship, then no thank you. 
I canít think of a single issue that the democrats are right on.
Bonzai!


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2019, 09:18:26 am »
Only idiots think a left/right/liberal/conservative/socialist/capitalist/libertarian solution is right under EVERY circumstance in EVERY country and EVERY point in time. People who believe that are constitutionally incapable of deeper or prolonged thought and just default to their tribe out of impatience.

Anyone with a brain knows that the circumstances dictate whether one idea is more effective or not than the other. For example, in WWII the United States ceased to be a free-market, free-trading economy and instead became incredibly state-controlled with rationing, whole-scale conversion of factories, massive government investment, and so-on. Of course as soon as the war ended a lot of this went away.

Likewise you get a lot of dim leftists who just go "But but but Europe/Japan..." and totally ignore the unique circumstances of the United States.

If someone in 2020, can't find at least a few issues the other side has a good point on, then they are an idiot who is so blinded by "Go Team!" that they've ceased any critical thought and just go with the first article they see that supports their position and decide to stop there.

For me, and I might well be wrong, I lean "leftish" on some issues like:

Some form of national health care system that means no one is uninsured. In fact we might even be better off with a more comprehensive one. Health care costs are a big part small and big business expenses and may in fact be hurting our competitive edge. A single-payer system might reduce those expenses, even with the increase in taxes. Making small and big businesses more competitive in the global economy. Is that "leftist"? I don't think so.

LGBTQ rights (to a point). You don't have to be supporting 6-months-ago men with 5 O'Clock shadows crushing women's skulls in MMA matches, but you do have to recognize that the GOP was a dinosaur on this issue for too long.

Abortion. If Roe vs. Wade isn't the law of the land, that means the power to control and regulate abortion and pregnancy ultimately lies with the government and not a citizen. Like China. Doesn't mean you have to think it's a moral practice. You can think it's utterly immoral for all I care and you might have a point. But like free speech for hate speech, it's not about what's moral. It's about who has power.

Some government investment in Green Tech. It's going to be a big market. We can either be a part of it or lose out. We can sit on our butts and chant "free market free market" and then get Kodak'd or we can be ready.

Some cop shootings and police abuse. For effs sake, you don't have to think every cop shooting was bad or believe crap like "Michael Brown was a gentle giant who had his hands up" but if you don't see how some of them are bad and strongly suggest racial bias, then you're blind.

and so on...

And of course, I think everyone knows my conservative leaning stances.

Blind partisans are the worst.


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2019, 09:40:55 am »
Quote
Some cop shootings and police abuse. For effs sake, you don't have to think every cop shooting was bad or believe crap like "Michael Brown was a gentle giant who had his hands up" but if you don't see how some of them are bad and strongly suggest racial bias, then you're blind.

Cops sometimes do stupid things and panic in highly stressful situations, but why is it only racial bias if a white guy does it to a black person? Why not if a Hispanic cop does it to a white person or a black cop to a Hispanic etc etc..? I mean if the white cop actually said 'I'm going to kick your ass n..gger' or words to that effect then sure throw the book at the guy but why do people always assume the motive was racism when the only evidence is the race of the people involved? 


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2019, 09:47:26 am »
Quote
Health care costs are a big part small and big business expenses and may in fact be hurting our competitive edge.

I've always been amazed that more conservatives don't acknowledge this. It makes no sense that the "pro-business" crowd is comfortable having private businesses shoulder the very high cost of health insurance, while taxpayers fill in the (huge, and hugely expensive) gaps. How is this either business-friendly or fiscally conservative? It's also a disproportionately massive burden on freelancers and the self-employed, which doesn't quite support the independent, entrepreneurial spirit that they claim as the bedrock of their philosophy.

Staying tethered to a corporate or public sector job because you need the health insurance: The 21st Century American Dream.


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2019, 02:28:32 pm »
Quote
Some cop shootings and police abuse. For effs sake, you don't have to think every cop shooting was bad or believe crap like "Michael Brown was a gentle giant who had his hands up" but if you don't see how some of them are bad and strongly suggest racial bias, then you're blind.

Cops sometimes do stupid things and panic in highly stressful situations, but why is it only racial bias if a white guy does it to a black person? Why not if a Hispanic cop does it to a white person or a black cop to a Hispanic etc etc..? I mean if the white cop actually said 'I'm going to kick your ass n..gger' or words to that effect then sure throw the book at the guy but why do people always assume the motive was racism when the only evidence is the race of the people involved?

The same reason racism is involved in WHITE GIRL MISSING FOR 20 MINUTES-FOUND   Black girl dead, Page A13

A different, subconcious valuation on life. Absolutely the cops can be authoritarian and trigger happy on white people. Absolutely some cop shootings are just panic attacks and not racism.

At the same time, if you seriously think that all of those would have gone down the same way if the person had been a white kid? I've got a bridge to sell you.


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2019, 02:35:07 pm »
Quote
The same reason racism is involved in WHITE GIRL MISSING FOR 20 MINUTES-FOUND   Black girl dead, Page A13

You mean like black minor celebrity gets a cheek grazed by white supremacists page 1, compared to black guy sets fire to two innocent people during a store robbery page A13

https://www.macon.com/news/nation-world/national/article226636664.html. No, that story wasn't on CNN was it.

Quote
if you seriously think that all of those would have gone down the same way if the person had been a white kid? I've got a bridge to sell you.

So in other words, just (slightly racist) feelings and conjecture.

Here's a fact for you

"white police officers actually kill black and other minority suspects at lower rates than we would expect if killings were randomly distributed among officers of all races."

https://psmag.com/social-justice/black-cops-are-just-as-likely-as-whites-to-kill-black-suspects
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 02:42:02 pm by eggieguffer »


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2019, 06:29:34 pm »
I don't want to get into an argument about it, but most murders are local news in America. Things that happen to celebrities (however minor) are often national news. The theft of Jonathan Franzen's glasses was national news. The city where my parents live has only about 200,000 people and has seen nearly 100 murders since 2010. As far as I know, none of them were discussed on CNN. I don't think race has much to do with it.


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2019, 06:53:35 pm »
I don't want to get into an argument about it, but most murders are local news in America. Things that happen to celebrities (however minor) are often national news. The theft of Jonathan Franzen's glasses was national news. The city where my parents live has only about 200,000 people and has seen nearly 100 murders since 2010. As far as I know, none of them were discussed on CNN. I don't think race has much to do with it.

It wasn't a murder, it was a guy tying two women up, stealing some money and then just setting fire to them for the hell of it. Do you think if he'd been a white guy doing that to two black women, it would have made CNN? Do you think Jessie Smollet would have been national news if he'd said he'd been attacked by a couple of black guys?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 06:55:41 pm by eggieguffer »


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2019, 08:24:35 pm »
Okay, I read the full story. A horrific event, but seen through the US news filter, it's a liquor store robbery and attempted murder - even less of a national story than an actual murder. I'm not saying that's right or good but that's how it is. Have you been to the US? Did you watch the local news? It's full of stuff like this, usually followed by a segment on a popular local squirrel. The national news is for Trump tweets and celebrity bullshit. Or, more generously, politics, economics, natural disasters and entertainment. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of local TV stations, and hundreds of newspapers. It's not like the UK, with five main TV channels and a handful of newspapers that you choose according to political preference. Crime that doesn't involve celebrities is their territory, however unfortunate that might be. We established in the other thread that some 85,000 white-on-black violent crimes were reported between 2012-15. If you can convince me that most of these were covered by CNN and other national media, and given a racism slant, I will concede your point.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 08:44:45 pm by Andyman »


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3471

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2019, 05:33:28 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXLx5OY21Bk

He lies shamelessly like a sociopath.

Now his career is likely ruined and he'll be serving a prison sentence. He deserves it but I doubt he'll ever change for the better.
But the video has nothing to do with trump. Did you experience a posting malfunction?


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2019, 06:30:59 am »
Quote
If you can convince me that most of these were covered by CNN and other national media, and given a racism slant, I will concede your point.

I can't convince you that a white guy tying up two black women and setting them on fire wouldn't have made the national news? How about the Jazmine Barnes story which made the national news because the suspect was white?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/03/us/texas-drive-by-shooting-jazmine-barnes-sketch/index.html

That didn't involve any celebrities and was just a bog standard drive by shooting, which according to you don't get reported by CNN.   

Unlike DeMartino, I don't think the reason why the media jumps on these stories is due to racism, I think it's more to do with stirring up hatred for Trump. The narrative the left wing media is constantly pushing is that hate crimes are up in the US because of his actions.   
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 06:45:41 am by eggieguffer »


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2019, 08:10:12 am »
Well, clearly I can't compete with your deep insider's knowledge of what goes on in editorial meetings at major American media firms, so I should probably limit my own attempts at conjecture. But I read that link and noticed the names of three well-known public figures (and there is a picture of a celebrity in the article) who'd taken up the cause to push for justice in the killing. Do you not think that having some sort of clout, even if only on social media, helps to elevate a story to national attention? Also, the suspect is still at large, which makes for more dramatic reporting. "Small-town low-life tries to kill someone, gets arrested, goes to jail" tends to stick in the news for a shorter period than "Child killer on the loose on a major city." Some stories get massive coverage and other stories of a similar nature get none. Sometimes there just isn't a clear reason as to why this happens. More than 60,000 women over the age of 21 went missing in the US in 2017. Why did the Mollie Tibbetts case get wall-to-wall coverage, and even international attention, for days? Do you think it would have received even more attention if she'd been black? How about mixed-race?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 08:20:05 am by Andyman »


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 5032

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2019, 08:19:20 am »
It's certainly symptomatic of a larger problem.
The problem, of course, being America's outrageous level of political polarization.
People seem to be treating political parties like they do their favourite sports teams: they blindly support even the most ridiculous doggerel while hating everybody else because they're not "my team".

Fix stupid blind partisanship, and you'll fix the problem that will otherwise eventually sink the US.  :sad:
This is the oldest lefist argument/trick in the world.   Just stop debate, says Stalin, and agree. 
    Debate is great! There needs to be more of it.
    But the debate needs to be based on rational, logical assessments of the needs and problems facing society, rather than automatic and vitriolic disagreement because the person saying it wears a hat of a different colour.
   And your example is maybe not the best one: while Stalin was obviously a commie, he was also a fascist: his nationalistic objectives were on the extreme end of right-wing.
Democrats need to come down to Earth and explain Exactly what they think.    If you wanna take away guns, say it.  If you wanna kill babies, say it.  If you hate old white men, say it.  If you hate America, say it.   
If you donít want to do those things, then prove to everybody that you donít.    Say I love the US, not ď I love the US the same way other people love their countries.Ē
     People *should* say what they mean, I agree. Enforced honesty and transparency is the only way citizens can keep their governments honest. Right or left, politicians who deliberately mislead voters should be barred from politics. Similarly, voters should also be honest with what they expect from their representatives.

    The Republicans have nothing to gain from working with Democrats.
   The democrats want open borders and hope to side with globalist Koch bro republicans.  If thatís bipartisanship, then no thank you. 
    I canít think of a single issue that the democrats are right on.
    This is a fine example of the problems of partisanship: using dubious generalizations and accusations to vilify the other "team" never does anybody any favours. The two parties clearly have different visions for the future of the USA, and neither is wholly good or bad. Citizens should examine both platforms before making their vote. Doing otherwise is a disservice to the political freedoms Americans have fought so hard to ensure in the past.
 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 08:50:07 am by kyndo »


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2019, 08:32:21 am »
The Republicans have nothing to gain from working with Democrats  .   The democrats want open borders and hope to side with globalist Koch bro republicans.  If thatís bipartisanship, then no thank you. 
I canít think of a single issue that the democrats are right on.

no, because you get all your information from fox news.  'open borders'?   :laugh: 

i mean, what kind of stick is this to hit AOC with...



what a terrible witch, free college and healthcare? burn her!

you are devoid of any rational opinion, which is what Kyndo is highlighting.


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2019, 09:57:15 am »
I don't want to get into an argument about it, but most murders are local news in America. Things that happen to celebrities (however minor) are often national news. The theft of Jonathan Franzen's glasses was national news. The city where my parents live has only about 200,000 people and has seen nearly 100 murders since 2010. As far as I know, none of them were discussed on CNN. I don't think race has much to do with it.

It wasn't a murder, it was a guy tying two women up, stealing some money and then just setting fire to them for the hell of it. Do you think if he'd been a white guy doing that to two black women, it would have made CNN? Do you think Jessie Smollet would have been national news if he'd said he'd been attacked by a couple of black guys?

I'm going to split the difference on this- National news, celebrity and "The Narrative" rules and yes, stories like the white kid that got tortured on facebook live or the guy setting fire or a lot of other brutal crimes are overlooked because they don't support "The Narrative" of WHITE MEN EVIL AND DEMOCRATS GOOD!!!!

However, for local news, it's really the opposite. White girl missing and found- Front Page. Black girl dead- A13. It's really disgusting and shows the subconcious bias and fundamental lack of interest that exists towards the lives of black people.

It's something you might not get until one of your friends of color has something bad happen to them and it gets buried in your local news while "White Person's Dog Rescued from Rowboat" gets all the coverage in the world and you see how seriously effed up that is. And if you don't think that same disregard creeps into law enforcement...I'm sorry.

What I'm trying to say is that this isn't a one-sided issue. Just as you and I easily see the national media bias and demonization of white men and how they overlook stories that don't fit the narrative and generally trash conservatives, it's the same how me and Andyman can easily see the bias with our local newspapers and some of the cop shootings that have gone down where we fundamentally know that had it been a white person, they would not have been shot. It's the same reason doctors are less likely to think black people are sick. Or people lock their doors as they see a blackman cross the street.

It's a tough line to navigate. Be too PC and you're just being stupid and naive and often engaging in reverse racism. Be too anti-PC and you ignore real bias that's out there.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3471

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2019, 09:23:37 pm »
Quote
Health care costs are a big part small and big business expenses and may in fact be hurting our competitive edge.

I've always been amazed that more conservatives don't acknowledge this. It makes no sense that the "pro-business" crowd is comfortable having private businesses shoulder the very high cost of health insurance, while taxpayers fill in the (huge, and hugely expensive) gaps. How is this either business-friendly or fiscally conservative? It's also a disproportionately massive burden on freelancers and the self-employed, which doesn't quite support the independent, entrepreneurial spirit that they claim as the bedrock of their philosophy.

Staying tethered to a corporate or public sector job because you need the health insurance: The 21st Century American Dream.
Depends on the business. It's quite friendly to insurance, pharmaceutical and health industry businesses.


  • CDW
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1783

    • June 15, 2011, 01:22:09 pm
    • Banned
Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2019, 10:18:08 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXLx5OY21Bk

He lies shamelessly like a sociopath.

Now his career is likely ruined and he'll be serving a prison sentence. He deserves it but I doubt he'll ever change for the better.
But the video has nothing to do with trump. Did you experience a posting malfunction?
You're experiencing your own malfunction if you think Trump's in the same category.


Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2019, 10:23:03 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXLx5OY21Bk

He lies shamelessly like a sociopath.

Now his career is likely ruined and he'll be serving a prison sentence. He deserves it but I doubt he'll ever change for the better.
But the video has nothing to do with trump. Did you experience a posting malfunction?
You're experiencing your own malfunction if you think Trump's in the same category.

finally, CDW, I agree with you, trump is in a much much worse category all on his own.


  • CDW
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1783

    • June 15, 2011, 01:22:09 pm
    • Banned
Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2019, 10:25:49 am »
"A Pennsylvania billboard that flashes an image of actor Jussie Smollett and a message about 'whites have rights' has sparked accusations of racism.The digital billboard outside Worthington, about 40 miles northeast of Pittsburgh, features dissolving screens that also include images of various lawmakers, including Reps. John Lewis and Maxine Waters, who are accused of being 'black racists.'

" 'Jussie Smollett hangs himself! Sets race relations back 100 years,' the billboard reads, according to Yahoo News. "
https://nypost.com/2019/03/07/pennsylvania-billboard-draws-ire-for-whites-have-rights-claim/

The billboard owner has a point. He's protesting a double standard.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3471

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Justice4Jussie
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2019, 10:24:39 pm »
"A Pennsylvania billboard that flashes an image of actor Jussie Smollett and a message about 'whites have rights' has sparked accusations of racism.The digital billboard outside Worthington, about 40 miles northeast of Pittsburgh, features dissolving screens that also include images of various lawmakers, including Reps. John Lewis and Maxine Waters, who are accused of being 'black racists.'

" 'Jussie Smollett hangs himself! Sets race relations back 100 years,' the billboard reads, according to Yahoo News. "
https://nypost.com/2019/03/07/pennsylvania-billboard-draws-ire-for-whites-have-rights-claim/

The billboard owner has a point. He's protesting a double standard.
So working and speaking up for equality is racist? I guess that's what white nationalists like yourself think.

Blacks are supposed to know their place, right?