QuoteI would love to see the lefts best regularly debate someone like dinesh dsouza. They won’t because they simply get destroyed, which is kind of weird considering that they consider themselves the smart onesWish granted! Christopher Hitchens vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gnj48E-hXwPeter Singer vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcwWliq8PDIThom Hartman vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOWCgukPzhsWilliam Ayers vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWxCxMy-_s0David Silverman vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rACrVLuIfDYCenk Uygur vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4sULDNpvqsSam Harris, Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens vs. Dinesh D'Souza and various others - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAmdbBWluYEAnd for good measure, some self-identified libertarians...Penn Jillette vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SakF4FJPyCoMichael Shermer vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SLxwkhomxs
I would love to see the lefts best regularly debate someone like dinesh dsouza. They won’t because they simply get destroyed, which is kind of weird considering that they consider themselves the smart ones
Quote from: Andyman on January 13, 2019, 10:49:40 amQuoteI would love to see the lefts best regularly debate someone like dinesh dsouza. They won’t because they simply get destroyed, which is kind of weird considering that they consider themselves the smart onesWish granted! Christopher Hitchens vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gnj48E-hXwPeter Singer vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcwWliq8PDIThom Hartman vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOWCgukPzhsWilliam Ayers vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWxCxMy-_s0David Silverman vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rACrVLuIfDYCenk Uygur vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4sULDNpvqsSam Harris, Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens vs. Dinesh D'Souza and various others - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAmdbBWluYEAnd for good measure, some self-identified libertarians...Penn Jillette vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SakF4FJPyCoMichael Shermer vs. Dinesh D'Souza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SLxwkhomxsU trying to be cute?Yes he destroys everybody in those videos especially cenk uygur They should do it more. I’m talking about leftist heroes like Chomsky and west
U trying to be cute?
Quote from: tylerthegloob on January 11, 2019, 12:37:23 pmBeing fired for saying something shitty 10 years ago sucks, but realistically this is only happening in outstanding cases (or to people who have it coming). Facing a boycott because your CEO hates the gays is also not that big of a deal for your average non-CEO person.The rest of this comes across as a bit wishy washy. I mean either you think it's OK to police people's speech or jokes , force them to apologise and try to get them fired over it, or you don't. It doesn't matter whether this happens rarely, someone is a CEO, had it coming or not. The left often comes out with these arguments but I'd have more respect for them if they were honest and said 'yes we think certain types of speech should be policed and punished.'
Being fired for saying something shitty 10 years ago sucks, but realistically this is only happening in outstanding cases (or to people who have it coming). Facing a boycott because your CEO hates the gays is also not that big of a deal for your average non-CEO person.
I'd have more respect for them if they were honest and said 'yes we think certain types of speech should be policed and punished.'
I think we have a different view of this issue. It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you view this censorship as a kind of top-down system. I view as a bottom-up system. In other words, when you say:QuoteI'd have more respect for them if they were honest and said 'yes we think certain types of speech should be policed and punished.'Policed by who? Punished by who?
QuoteI think we have a different view of this issue. It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you view this censorship as a kind of top-down system. I view as a bottom-up system. In other words, when you say:QuoteI'd have more respect for them if they were honest and said 'yes we think certain types of speech should be policed and punished.'Policed by who? Punished by who?Generally policed by the twiterati/media and enforced by the organisations. E.g. the government or private business. It's a combination of the two. However in the UK under hate speech/thought crime legislation speech is also literally policed by the police. See these exampleshttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katie-hopkins-reported-to-police-for-hate-crimes-against-overweight-people-in-new-tv-show-9951155.html.https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/8xqz7k/nottinghamshire-police-misogyny-hate-crime-investigation.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/23/man-who-filmed-dog-giving-nazi-salutes-fined
QuoteQuoteQuote from: tylerthegloob on January 11, 2019, 07:21:39 amI don't see why white people shouldn't be proud of their heritage/race if they want to be.There's a difference between appreciating the invention of let's say the telephone and being a belligerent white supremacist bellend.Yup. Like there's a difference between whites who are proud of albert einstein and the ****** honkyswho go around championing hitler or the grand wizards of everyone's favorite ghost themed slumber party.So do you think that saying something like this 'I'm proud of famous white inventors like Albert Einstein and Alexander Graham Bell because they were great white men and I'm white too', would go down well in polite company?
QuoteQuote from: tylerthegloob on January 11, 2019, 07:21:39 amI don't see why white people shouldn't be proud of their heritage/race if they want to be.There's a difference between appreciating the invention of let's say the telephone and being a belligerent white supremacist bellend.Yup. Like there's a difference between whites who are proud of albert einstein and the ****** honkyswho go around championing hitler or the grand wizards of everyone's favorite ghost themed slumber party.
Quote from: tylerthegloob on January 11, 2019, 07:21:39 amI don't see why white people shouldn't be proud of their heritage/race if they want to be.There's a difference between appreciating the invention of let's say the telephone and being a belligerent white supremacist bellend.
I don't see why white people shouldn't be proud of their heritage/race if they want to be.
Quote from: Mr.DeMartino on Yesterday at 01:40:32 PM Trump is a liar and a con man.
Quote from Mr.DeMartino on June 14, 2019 at 02:28:07 pmDonald Trump is a lying sack of shit
Quote from: eggieguffer on January 11, 2019, 07:50:16 amQuoteQuoteQuote from: tylerthegloob on January 11, 2019, 07:21:39 amI don't see why white people shouldn't be proud of their heritage/race if they want to be.There's a difference between appreciating the invention of let's say the telephone and being a belligerent white supremacist bellend.Yup. Like there's a difference between whites who are proud of albert einstein and the ****** honkyswho go around championing hitler or the grand wizards of everyone's favorite ghost themed slumber party.So do you think that saying something like this 'I'm proud of famous white inventors like Albert Einstein and Alexander Graham Bell because they were great white men and I'm white too', would go down well in polite company? 100 percent of the time if someone is talking about being "proud of being white," they're a white supremacist. People like Lauren Southern and other trolls. Find me someone who says they're proud of being white who isn't clearly a white supremacist. And you can't use yourself, because you frequently defend racists and racism.I'm sorry if your white supremacist attitudes make you feel unwelcomed. Wait, no, not sorry.
@ TylerthegobYes to your last question. I think you can distinguish between the strength of intention in crimes but I don't think you can say one kind of intention is worse in one crime compared to another. E.g. Punching someone because you think they were looking at your girlfriend is no worse or better than punching them because you thought they looked gay. Do you think shouting 'nice arse' at someone walking by should be a criminal offense? Do you think it's a worse crime if a man does it to a woman than if a woman does it to a man? I'd answer no to both questions. Re the Gas the Jews guy, the people being prosecuted for hate speech of course are going to be of dubious moral fibre, Loud mouth builders, Katie Hopkins etc...and what they said was rude/controversial etc..but it's not really the point. The point is whether it should be a police matter at all.
i don't see anything wrong with saying one kind of intention is worse than another.
saying "gas the jews" is hate speech. saying "nice ass" is not hate speech. hate speech should be a police matter.
Quotei don't see anything wrong with saying one kind of intention is worse than another.And the government decides, right? Which groups are allowed to have special victim status and which aren't. According to which victim group shots the loudest? You don't think that's a recipe for never ending victim-hood whining? Why shouldn't fat people have official victimhood status, why shouldn't gingers, if women can, why can't men, why can't white people? etc. etc.Quotesaying "gas the jews" is hate speech. saying "nice ass" is not hate speech. hate speech should be a police matter.Obviously, even if you believe in 'hate speech' as a concept, context is important otherwise we'd both be guilty of hate speech in this thread. Saying 'gas the jews' as a joke to get your pug to do the nazi salute is not, in my opinion being especially anti-semitic, though you could argue that commenting on a real woman's body to denigrate her is misogynistic.
in other words, how would your average viewer of that video know it was a joke?
Quote in other words, how would your average viewer of that video know it was a joke?A video of a guy getting his dog to do a Hitler salute and someone watching it wouldn't realise it was a joke? What would they think, that he was genuinely training up the next weapon in the struggle against the big Jewish conspiracy? Come on.
Quote from: eggieguffer on January 13, 2019, 08:17:47 pmQuote in other words, how would your average viewer of that video know it was a joke?A video of a guy getting his dog to do a Hitler salute and someone watching it wouldn't realise it was a joke? What would they think, that he was genuinely training up the next weapon in the struggle against the big Jewish conspiracy? Come on.Obviously not. But, that doesn't make the symbolism or the "gas the jews" part any less hateful. Where's the joke?If I posted a video saying "gas the jews" without a dog, should I be able to just say "oh, it was a joke" once I start taking heat for it? I don't think so.edit: im just curious. how far would he need to go for this to be hate speech to you? is the nuremberg rally video and hitler picture not enough?
I don't believe in hate speech as a criminal term, but if I did, there'd have to be proof that he had bad intentions towards Jewish people in his heart
Which is something that can't possibly be proved. Well done, sir.
After all, training your pet to mimic one of the most hated symbols of oppression in the post-war world for fun is not at all an insight into your deeper being. Nuff said.
Quote from: tylerthegloob on January 13, 2019, 08:38:26 pmQuote from: eggieguffer on January 13, 2019, 08:17:47 pmQuote in other words, how would your average viewer of that video know it was a joke?A video of a guy getting his dog to do a Hitler salute and someone watching it wouldn't realise it was a joke? What would they think, that he was genuinely training up the next weapon in the struggle against the big Jewish conspiracy? Come on.Obviously not. But, that doesn't make the symbolism or the "gas the jews" part any less hateful. Where's the joke?If I posted a video saying "gas the jews" without a dog, should I be able to just say "oh, it was a joke" once I start taking heat for it? I don't think so.edit: im just curious. how far would he need to go for this to be hate speech to you? is the nuremberg rally video and hitler picture not enough?I don't believe in hate speech as a criminal term, but if I did, there'd have to be proof that he had bad intentions towards Jewish people in his heart when he arranged the stunt and that when he said 'gas the jews' he was actually telling the audience this was what he wanted them to do. Known as a 'call to action' in the States, which doesn't have hate speech laws. Just a thought but if someone attacks someone else for let's say being black and gay, and they shout out 'you black, gay b...stard' just before they punch the guy, should they be prosecuted for two hate crimes? Logically they should because the hate speech part is on top of the actual crime.