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  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3483

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #120 on: December 15, 2018, 06:35:47 am »
Clinton moved the middle to the right. Look at his economic and prison sentencing policies. He was an OK president and  a very good speaker.

Democrats are returning their roots when they move left.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3483

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #121 on: December 15, 2018, 06:41:05 am »
Best economy in history?!?

Quote
Tax cuts and a slowing economy will erode America’s fiscal strength during the next decade, according to a new report from Moody’s Investor Service, the bond-rating agency. At some point, Moody’s might cut the nation’s top-tier credit rating.

The Moody’s warning challenges a core promise of President Trump and his fellow Republicans, who insisted the $1.5 trillion tax cut they passed last year would pay for itself and even generate more tax revenue, not less, because economic growth would suddenly boom. Trump predicted last year that the economy would “take off like a rocket ship” once his tax cuts went into effect. White House economists predicted family incomes would rise by $4,000 or more due to a sharp cut in business taxes.

None of that is happening or coming into view. The economy grew at a robust 4.2% in the second quarter, the highest level since 2014. But Moody’s Analytics predicts growth of just 2.9% for all of 2018, and 2019 as well. It will then fall to 0.9%, according to the forecasting firm. If so, economic growth under Trump would average just 2.2% per year, almost exactly the same as during President Obama’s second term.

From bankrupting casinos and airlines to damaging the US government's credit--what a guy. And let's not forget all the repugs who helped him do it.

The national debt is a hot potato tossed from party to party, neither are interested in actually implementing what it takes to balance it (austerity) because it would be unpopular and they'd lose power. Trump has been decent with cutting spending, but you have to also raise taxes to narrow the difference. I think it's disingenuous to blame Trump and Republicans exclusively, both parties are focused on short term popularity over the long term sustainability of the government.
A hot potato? Too much time in Korea or not a native speaker?

Give some evidence of trump's cost cutting.

There's nothing disingenuous about blaming trump and the repugs for the budget and tax cuts THEY passed. While you may think your defense of trump is disingenuous enough to conceal your obvious bias, it's not.

Blow your trumpist horn!


  • CDW
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1783

    • June 15, 2011, 01:22:09 pm
    • Banned
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #122 on: December 19, 2018, 09:11:42 am »
"Washington (AFP) – The death of a seven-year-old Guatemalan girl last week in the custody of US border agents sparked furor Friday and raised new pressure on the Trump administration’s efforts to halt the migration of Central American families....

"Showing an extremely high fever of 105.7 degrees Fahrenheit (41 degrees centigrade), the girl was flown by helicopter to a hospital in El Paso but died after several hours....

"But Democrats in Congress assailed the administration’s get-tough policies on immigrants attempting to cross the border illegally.

" 'This could be my daughter or yours, let that sink in America,' said newly elected Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, herself a refugee from Somalia.

" 'This is tragic,' tweeted Senator Kamala Harris.

" 'We need a thorough account of what happened before this 7-year-old girl died of dehydration and exhaustion in CBP custody.' "
https://www.breitbart.com/news/death-of-seven-year-old-migrant-girl-in-us-custody-sparks-furor/

They were discovered in the middle of a desert after crossing the border illegally. What could have gone wrong? Should the border patrol be responsible for shielding people from the negative consequences of their foolish decisions? How about charging the father with involuntary manslaughter?


Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #123 on: December 19, 2018, 09:48:47 am »


  • sh9wntm
  • Veteran

    • 198

    • February 23, 2018, 03:23:39 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #124 on: December 19, 2018, 10:21:07 am »


The national debt is a hot potato tossed from party to party, neither are interested in actually implementing what it takes to balance it (austerity) because it would be unpopular and they'd lose power. Trump has been decent with cutting spending, but you have to also raise taxes to narrow the difference. I think it's disingenuous to blame Trump and Republicans exclusively, both parties are focused on short term popularity over the long term sustainability of the government.
A hot potato? Too much time in Korea or not a native speaker?

Give some evidence of trump's cost cutting.

There's nothing disingenuous about blaming trump and the repugs for the budget and tax cuts THEY passed. While you may think your defense of trump is disingenuous enough to conceal your obvious bias, it's not.

Blow your trumpist horn!

Dude, all you had to do was google any news source to look at what spending is being cut. This Vox article has it in bold in case you have difficulty seeing.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/12/16996832/trump-budget-2019-release-explained

Also, please note over Obama's tenure, he added 9 trillion in debt. Far from a balanced budget.

I can't tell if you're trolling or if you're actually this belligerently clueless. I really hope you're trolling.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3483

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #125 on: December 21, 2018, 09:37:08 pm »


The national debt is a hot potato tossed from party to party, neither are interested in actually implementing what it takes to balance it (austerity) because it would be unpopular and they'd lose power. Trump has been decent with cutting spending, but you have to also raise taxes to narrow the difference. I think it's disingenuous to blame Trump and Republicans exclusively, both parties are focused on short term popularity over the long term sustainability of the government.
A hot potato? Too much time in Korea or not a native speaker?

Give some evidence of trump's cost cutting.

There's nothing disingenuous about blaming trump and the repugs for the budget and tax cuts THEY passed. While you may think your defense of trump is disingenuous enough to conceal your obvious bias, it's not.

Blow your trumpist horn!

Dude, all you had to do was google any news source to look at what spending is being cut. This Vox article has it in bold in case you have difficulty seeing.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/12/16996832/trump-budget-2019-release-explained

Also, please note over Obama's tenure, he added 9 trillion in debt. Far from a balanced budget.

I can't tell if you're trolling or if you're actually this belligerently clueless. I really hope you're trolling.
Please note, the deficit was going down under Obama even while the economy was recovering form The Great Recession. The deficit under trump is going up, up, up, even with a strong economy.

Looks like you're the troll.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3193

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2018, 06:20:30 am »
The deficit under trump is going up, up, up, even with a strong economy.

The economy is strengthened by deficit spending short term (and hurt long term).

Seems unethical to run up huge debt.

Trump's bad tax cuts for the wealthiest give a slight boost short term.

His stupid tariffs are making prices go up and triggering trade wars though.


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3483

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2018, 09:10:00 am »
The deficit under trump is going up, up, up, even with a strong economy.

The economy is strengthened by deficit spending short term (and hurt long term).

Seems unethical to run up huge debt.

Trump's bad tax cuts for the wealthiest give a slight boost short term.

His stupid tariffs are making prices go up and triggering trade wars though.
The economy was already strong. The effects of the tax cuts were meager and have run their course.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3193

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2018, 10:59:53 am »
You're correct. The economy was already roaring when he took office. But it's starting to slip a bit as stocks go down. 2018 was a bad year for stocks. 2017 was great. (And 2009-2016 was great for stocks, too.)


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3193

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2018, 11:01:23 am »


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3483

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2018, 08:54:17 am »
You're correct. The economy was already roaring when he took office. But it's starting to slip a bit as stocks go down. 2018 was a bad year for stocks. 2017 was great. (And 2009-2016 was great for stocks, too.)
Historically, the market always does better under Democratic presidents.


  • L I
  • The Legend

    • 3193

    • October 03, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2018, 10:09:15 am »
Stock index that powered the bull rally enters a bear market — ending the longest period of prosperity in history
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-stock-index-that-powered-the-bull-rally-is-on-the-precipice-of-a-bear-market-and-that-would-make-history-2018-12-20


  • CDW
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1783

    • June 15, 2011, 01:22:09 pm
    • Banned
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #132 on: December 27, 2018, 07:45:41 am »
An individual has raised over 17 million to build the wall.
https://www.gofundme.com/thetrumpwall

It's too bad the Dems still refuse to prioritize border security. They're more interested in what is best for their own party than in what is best for the nation.


  • Mr C
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1629

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #133 on: December 27, 2018, 09:46:51 am »
An individual has raised over 17 million to build the wall.
https://www.gofundme.com/thetrumpwall

It's too bad the Dems still refuse to prioritize border security. They're more interested in what is best for their own party than in what is best for the nation.

It's too bad that after all this time, some people still refuse to recognise the difference between border security and a  "wall"--one of those is important, the other is a scam political meme to activate the base.


  • CDW
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1783

    • June 15, 2011, 01:22:09 pm
    • Banned
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #134 on: December 27, 2018, 10:00:31 am »
An individual has raised over 17 million to build the wall.
https://www.gofundme.com/thetrumpwall

It's too bad the Dems still refuse to prioritize border security. They're more interested in what is best for their own party than in what is best for the nation.

It's too bad that after all this time, some people still refuse to recognise the difference between border security and a  "wall"--one of those is important, the other is a scam political meme to activate the base.
Walls work. Just ask Israel.



Suicide bombings have also significantly declined there.


  • CDW
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1783

    • June 15, 2011, 01:22:09 pm
    • Banned
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #135 on: December 27, 2018, 10:08:55 am »
Quote
This fortified barrier was initially intended to keep out illegal migrants, but is now one of Israel's primary weapons against the growing threat of jihadi terror emanating from the Sinai desert.

The fence's effect already appears to have been vast: according to estimates released in July by the prime minister's office, a mere 34 people entered Israel illegally in the first half of 2013 — compared to nearly 10,000 people in the first six months of 2012, a decrease of more than 99 percent.
https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-12-05/israel-built-new-border-wall-prevent-migrants-smuggling-terror


Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #136 on: December 27, 2018, 12:07:02 pm »
The wall is not the best idea but something has to be done. The de facto amnesty position of the left is unsustainable.


Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #137 on: December 27, 2018, 12:13:40 pm »
The wall is not the best idea but something has to be done. The de facto amnesty position of the left is unsustainable.

we could crack down on businesses that are dependent on illegal immigrants. that might be a better start than a wall.

edit: more seriously... having a more reasonable path of entry for immigrant workers would make the most sense. but, until that happens, de facto amnesty will have to do.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 12:18:02 pm by tylerthegloob »


  • Mr C
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1629

    • October 17, 2012, 03:00:40 pm
    • Seoul
Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #138 on: December 27, 2018, 01:55:50 pm »
An individual has raised over 17 million to build the wall.
https://www.gofundme.com/thetrumpwall

It's too bad the Dems still refuse to prioritize border security. They're more interested in what is best for their own party than in what is best for the nation.

It's too bad that after all this time, some people still refuse to recognise the difference between border security and a  "wall"--one of those is important, the other is a scam political meme to activate the base.
Walls work. Just ask Israel.



Suicide bombings have also significantly declined there.

The two aren't comparable in a lot of ways.  But the larger point is about how to stop illegals--since they mostly aren't coming into the US by southern border crossings, a wall at the southern border doesn't do much to contain the problem, you see. 

This is why "Dems" feel the wall is a waste of money.  And with a horrible multi-trillion dollar giveaway to the top 1% recently, govenment money is not something we should be wasting.


Re: US Politics Megathread
« Reply #139 on: December 28, 2018, 08:17:04 am »
we could crack down on businesses that are dependent on illegal immigrants. that might be a better start than a wall.

edit: more seriously... having a more reasonable path of entry for immigrant workers would make the most sense. but, until that happens, de facto amnesty will have to do.
Yeah, there aren't really many good options. Cracking down on employers help, but that's playing whack-a-mole and people will still try to enter. The wall might deter entry somewhat, but there are so many ways to enter that I doubt it would result in anything more than a 25% reduction while being expensive to maintain.

That being said, you have to have some kind of enforcement and deportation and you can't get all liberal weak-kneed about it either. Having a policy of essentially "If you make it in, you stay unless you seriously eff up" is not workable either. But the left's sanctuary city policy, combined with increasing the welfare state, while clamoring for higher wages, is not sustainable either.

Really, the country of Mexico needs to get it's act together. I don't know what's holding it's economy back (well, beyond corruption and the narcotics trade), but it really could be a dynamo such that people emigrating wouldn't be a big deal, like people wanting to emigrate from Italy or Canada to the U.S.