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Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2018, 02:56:43 pm »
Sorry but I disagree. Some of my co teachers are tiny women and they RUN their classes. Like no one talks out of line and there's one in particular who taps her pencil and they all shut the f up and pay attention. Some of my male co teachers are absolutely useless, they don't get anywhere near the amount of respect.
I think that was my point in the examples I used. I specifically cited a woman of smaller stature who nonetheless had an edge of "just try me" in her. It mattered and it's not gender specific, though it does lean male.

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If this big UFC guy was so great at controlling his classes then why did he lose it? Why was a kid acting up so badly that he ended up fighting him? Obviously he had discipline issues in his class and clearly size and physicality isn't everything in the classroom.
Do you think if he had been allowed to be physical from day 1, that it might have made a difference? Instead teachers are handcuffed. That's the whole point.

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No innocent lives should be lost to the police... you wouldn't be like "eh what's a few lives lost to those saved?" if one of those people was a member of your family.
Yes, in a perfect world where police never make mistakes that shouldn't happen. I agree.

We do not exist in a perfect world where humans are infallible and always have all available information at their disposal and where everyone is virtuous.


  • Mister Tim
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1499

    • September 08, 2013, 10:33:54 am
    • SK
Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2018, 03:03:26 pm »
BTW, the world has changed.

Uhh.. if you make a claim, you're supposed to actually back it up with an argument, dimbulb.

Although I do of course realize you have low mental acuity, having been "raised" without any discipline.

What was it you said in you (now deleted...) comment about resorting to name calling means you have lost the argument?  A tad hypocritical i think.

Not to mention he revealed who his account is a sock account for. *coughcoughAuratacoughcough*

I obviously suspected already, since both accounts so vehemently support corporal punishment. Cyanea doesn't seem to exhibit the same love for Mother Russia, though, so I gave the benefit of the doubt and just assumed it's possible for more than one person to support corporal punishment.

The use of "dimbulb," however, kinda seals it. It's not that common an insult, and if you google search  "dimbulb" site:waygook.org, literally every single result is from an Aurata post. Two people in favor of corporal punishment? Sure, fine. Two people who favor corporal punishment and use the term "dimbulb," though? That's a bit hard to swallow.

Does the ToS say anything about duplicate/sock accounts?


  • debbiem89
  • Expert Waygook

    • 507

    • August 30, 2016, 09:42:49 am
    • South Korea
Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2018, 03:05:26 pm »
Sorry but I disagree. Some of my co teachers are tiny women and they RUN their classes. Like no one talks out of line and there's one in particular who taps her pencil and they all shut the f up and pay attention. Some of my male co teachers are absolutely useless, they don't get anywhere near the amount of respect.
I think that was my point in the examples I used. I specifically cited a woman of smaller stature who nonetheless had an edge of "just try me" in her. It mattered and it's not gender specific, though it does lean male.

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If this big UFC guy was so great at controlling his classes then why did he lose it? Why was a kid acting up so badly that he ended up fighting him? Obviously he had discipline issues in his class and clearly size and physicality isn't everything in the classroom.
Do you think if he had been allowed to be physical from day 1, that it might have made a difference? Instead teachers are handcuffed. That's the whole point.

Quote
No innocent lives should be lost to the police... you wouldn't be like "eh what's a few lives lost to those saved?" if one of those people was a member of your family.
Yes, in a perfect world where police never make mistakes that shouldn't happen. I agree.

We do not exist in a perfect world where humans are infallible and always have all available information at their disposal and where everyone is virtuous.

These aren't "mistakes" I'm talking about though. They are cases of gross abuse of power. I feel like if we allowed CP back then "Mistakes" would happen. People would use your argument....well more people benefited than were hurt. We can't just let individuals become a statistic like that.

Your point seemed to be contradictory. I know that's what you meant by your example of the female teacher...but the rest of your post seemed to indicate that males responded better to big "line backer" type teachers so I wasn't sure.

I don't think it would have been different at all but it's hard to tell without observing his class...were they generally well behaved? Was this a regular occurrence? A one off?

Some of my scariest teachers (female and male) could bring you down with a look or a raised voice. There was absolutely no need to hit.

Here in Korea one of my former co teachers took students to his office and hit them. Did it work? Nope. The students became totally unphased by it. Once they got their rap they would go straight back to it....pure violence doesn't teach them a damn thing. What happens once they become unphased?...do the beatings get harder? do we decide to push it even further?

How do we teach our children that violence is a bad thing when we ourselves use it? How do we teach them that it's not ok to slap someone because they wronged you? Who gets to decide which violence is ok and which isn't?


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1074

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2018, 05:58:12 pm »
Does anyone have any real data proving that CP is effective

All the studies show that CP causes a dramatic increase in student compliance. Even the ones backed by the liberal brigade.

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Corporal punishment leads to more immediate compliant behavior in children
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2002/06/spanking.aspx


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(and I don't mean nonsensical "back in my day..." anecdotes).

You're saying the witness testimony of many people is necessarily "nonsensical"? I don't think so.

How is surveying the opinion of involved educators irrelevant?

Would you tell a courtroom and jury not to take into account the opinion of numerous eyewitnesses? of course not.


Those most qualified to judge, parents and teachers are quite clear in CP being effective.

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Pupil behaviour worse since abolition of caning, warn teachers
Corporal punishment should not be reintroduced but ministers have failed to suggest a deterrent as effective, conference hears


Children's behaviour has grown considerably worse since the abolition of corporal punishment 25 years ago, teachers have warned.

Successive governments have failed to introduce an effective way to deal with misbehaviour since striking pupils with a cane or slipper was outlawed in 1987, the annual conference of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers (ATL) heard.

Teachers said detentions fail to deter pupils, while exclusions and suspensions are only handed out in the most serious cases because inspectors take a dim view of schools that regularly exclude children.

"The forms of discipline currently available to teachers for dealing with inappropriate behaviour remain totally inadequate," Julian Perfect, a London teacher told the conference.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/apr/04/corporal-punishment-student-behaviour-worse

Catch my drift?


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3580

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2018, 03:35:50 am »
Just a single anecdote. In junior high two of my friends and I got sent to the dean of boys for misbehaving. One friend and I got swats, returned to class and life went on much as before. However, due to some interruption, my second friend got suspended and he was the one crying because he was going to have to face his father.

CP ain't like going to the hole. Most kids just take it in stride.


Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2018, 09:00:17 am »
These aren't "mistakes" I'm talking about though. They are cases of gross abuse of power. I feel like if we allowed CP back then "Mistakes" would happen. People would use your argument....well more people benefited than were hurt. We can't just let individuals become a statistic like that.
Every plan or course of action will have mistakes. Some will have the mistake of inaction. Others will come down too hard in bureaucratic fashion.

The only question is- Are there kids who are significantly more motivated by threat of physical force relative to other forms of persuasion? If the answer is yes (and given the variety of people out there, it is true), then CP should be reserved.

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but the rest of your post seemed to indicate that males responded better to big "line backer" type teachers so I wasn't sure.
This is something that frankly, most women are either unaware of or don't understand in their core- the degree to which there is an undercurrent of violence to male interaction. How many female arguments get to the point of "You want to fight?" Sure some do, but not to the degree to which it happens with men. There's a reason that men make up the overwhelming majority of assault cases and most victims are men.

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Some of my scariest teachers (female and male) could bring you down with a look or a raised voice. There was absolutely no need to hit.

Yeah, they could bring you or I down. But there's that one kid....

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. Once they got their rap they would go straight back to it....pure violence doesn't teach them a damn thing. What happens once they become unphased?...do the beatings get harder? do we decide to push it even further?

Make them hit each other.

Or perhaps they aren't the type that respond to physical threat. In their case, CP shouldn't be used because it's not effective. But just because it's not effective in SOME or MANY cases, does not mean that it is ineffective in ALL cases, and that is what it needs to be available as an option.


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1074

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Students Defend Music Teacher Arrested For Classroom Fight
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2018, 05:22:33 pm »

These aren't "mistakes" I'm talking about though. They are cases of gross abuse of power. I feel like if we allowed CP back then "Mistakes" would happen. People would use your argument....well more people benefited than were hurt. We can't just let individuals become a statistic like that.

 :rolleyes:

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If we allow people to drive cars, mistakes will happen. People will have accidents.

We can't just let individuals become a statistic like that.



Your argument still not winning any converts Debs.


Catch my drift?