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  • SanderB
  • Super Waygook

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    • June 02, 2018, 06:25:54 pm
    • Burning Oil Be Best
Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #120 on: May 28, 2019, 03:41:43 pm »
Eggs be right, but closing the borders would cause a massive brain drain on the economy, leaving us with all the people who don't have the money nor the skills to find jobs elsewhere. Brexit has already cost us several 1000s of highly skilled professionals moving out with their head offices to the mainland and many other EU citizens are extremely worried about their future in the UK and planning to move back to the mainland.

Fiat voluntas tua- What you want is allowed


Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #121 on: May 28, 2019, 03:54:48 pm »
Eggs be right, but closing the borders would cause a massive brain drain on the economy, leaving us with all the people who don't have the money nor the skills to find jobs elsewhere. Brexit has already cost us several 1000s of highly skilled professionals moving out with their head offices to the mainland and many other EU citizens are extremely worried about their future in the UK and planning to move back to the mainland.



Usually the only time you hear the expression 'closing the borders' is when leftists start attacking people who don't agree with them on this issue.  I've never heard anybody seriously advocating this.


Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #122 on: May 28, 2019, 04:03:35 pm »

[/quote]
So this thread is still basically one long snobbish attack on working class people.

Yes it's the Victorian idea of the illiterate masses not being intelligent enough to have a proper opinion on politics. Also coming out in phrases like these

Quote
I think if you did even the most basic research into what you are saying,
Quote
Here's a very simple video for you
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 04:05:55 pm by eggieguffer »


  • SanderB
  • Super Waygook

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    • June 02, 2018, 06:25:54 pm
    • Burning Oil Be Best
Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #123 on: May 28, 2019, 04:35:41 pm »
Isn't Brexit all about regaining control over our borders? Closing the borders and stopping migration because as Professor Lorryd River put it: ...there are too many 'people'.. :P
Fiat voluntas tua- What you want is allowed


Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #124 on: May 28, 2019, 04:38:15 pm »
Isn't Brexit all about regaining control over our borders? Closing the borders and stopping migration because as Professor Lorryd River put it: ...there are too many 'people'.. :P

Regaining control yes, closing the borders no.


  • kyndo
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    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
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Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #125 on: May 28, 2019, 04:54:57 pm »
Isn't Brexit all about regaining control over our borders? Closing the borders and stopping migration because as Professor Lorryd River put it: ...there are too many 'people'.. :P

Regaining control yes, closing the borders no.
       Putting tighter restrictions on immigration might be a better way of putting it.



Britain is, of course, well within its rights to pull out of the EU and impose tighter controls on its borders, but I feel that while it does stand to gain in security , as things stand, there will also be a significant net loss in money, talent, and goodwill.

    I feel that the best solution would be for the pro Brexit teams to sit down and do a bit more planning on how to make things the least harmful/most beneficial to everybody involved. This would take a heck of a lot more talking with various EU parties than what seems to be presently occurring.  :undecided:

     


  • SanderB
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    • June 02, 2018, 06:25:54 pm
    • Burning Oil Be Best
Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #126 on: May 28, 2019, 05:11:30 pm »
Well, luckily someone's enjoying himself... ;D


Fiat voluntas tua- What you want is allowed


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #127 on: May 29, 2019, 12:00:40 am »
Also, there is no unemployment in Holland

Of course the industrious northern nations are fine. And Italy? Spain? They live in a twilight zone.

Not mention Greece that was attacked then assett-stripped by Brussels. All those Greek islands now in the hands of German bankers while greeks live in poverty!

UK has one of the lowest unemployment rates for any member state btw. Even just looking at imports and exports, the EU needs Britain more than Britain needs the EU.


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I know it is far more comfortable to wallow in despair and discontent about the horrors the EU has inflicted upon the sovereignty of member states and how much money flows out of the country towards the Southern poorer member states

This is one of the design flaws of the EU: it is a vehicle by which countries get to offload their problems onto others.

If you're Poland you export your unemployment to Britain; if you're Spain you export your debt problems; if you're germany you get to export all your goods without having to buy anybody elses. Its a system of de-responsibilization.


Quote
Brexit on its own could cause England to suffer great economic recession inflicting even more unrest to the Southern EU states.


Britain is a dominant economy within the EU, its leaving is like 20 member states going (if you add up all the tiny or weak states).

You're fear-mongering, but of course Britain could  do much better after brexit. Don't lets forget EU regulations have hurt British business, not helped.

Brexit has already cost us several 1000s of highly skilled professionals moving out with their head offices to the mainland

It depends what media you read. You apparently read the anti-brexit media run by the globalists.

Obviously they aren't telling you the reality:

Quote
2017 was a record year for foreign investment into the UKs high-growth companies. A whopping 6b was invested over the course of the year, in 396 deals involving at least one foreign investor. This was 3.8b more than 2016.

What is perhaps even more striking is that even if we take into account the growth across all investment between 2016 and 2017, the proportion of foreign capital invested grew at a significantly faster rate.
https://about.beauhurst.com/blog/investors-from-abroad-foreign-money-for-uk-startups/

Even the most simple economist can tell you that devaluing the pound means not only will tourism boom but foreign investment as well.


« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 12:04:43 am by Cyanea »
Catch my drift?


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
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Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #128 on: May 29, 2019, 12:15:50 am »
Were you in the Hitler youth as well?
  :rolleyes:
"Godwin's Law: There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that, when a Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress."

The allusion is not entirely misplaced.

SPQR (aka FDNY /Donna Karan New York/ Cohiba) 's misty-eyed idealism at the rise of a European Empire and quick succumbing to propaganda fantasy mirrors the optimism at the start of the third reich. EU is just another restoration of the German reich. EU is dominated by Germany, if/ when Britain leaves you will see it become even more blatantly so. 
Catch my drift?


Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2019, 12:49:40 am »

Britain is, of course, well within its rights to pull out of the EU and impose tighter controls on its borders, but I feel that while it does stand to gain in security , as things stand, there will also be a significant net loss in money, talent, and goodwill.

    I feel that the best solution would be for the pro Brexit teams to sit down and do a bit more planning on how to make things the least harmful/most beneficial to everybody involved. This would take a heck of a lot more talking with various EU parties than what seems to be presently occurring.  :undecided:
If the EU is such a benevolent organization that respects human rights, democracy, and free will, why does it get so agitated and controlling when member states want to leave or "vote the wrong way" when it comes to adopting EU rules?

Doesn't that strongly suggest that the EU doesn't exist to enhance the quality of life of its citizenry, but instead to further the careers of those who are invested in it and part of its power structure? Shouldn't the normal reaction of a state withdrawing or deciding not to enter be one of "We respect your choice and lets see how we can have the most friendliest and mutually beneficial relations", not lets see what punitive measures we can enact since you refuse to be part of our great organization?

kyndo, if you'll permit this silly indulgence, you're a Trekkie aren't you if I recall? Remember the TNG episode 'First Contact' when Picard and crew meet a civilization on the cusp of warp technology?

PICARD: ...But how we proceed is entirely up to you.
DURKEN: And if my wishes should conflict with yours?
PICARD: There'll be no conflict.
DURKEN: And if I should tell you to leave and never return to my world?
PICARD: We will leave and never return.

Is the EU adopting such language to potential states which refuse to enter or those who are hesitant or those who may wish to leave? No. They pressure states to join them. If their citizens hold votes to join and they reject membership, the EU tells them to vote again and this time get it right. And if a state says we no longer wish to be part, they seek to be as punitive as possible to prevent other states from leaving. A truly benevolent institution, run by truly benevolent people, would not care at all if a country was part or not part of its organization when trying to maintain friendly relations.

They do not care about freedom and choice. They only care about their own power. Their statements towards freedom and choice are there only to get people to support them while they build their power. Now granted AND embraced- that's EVERY politician, including those on the Leave side. But it does shatter the myth that the EU is some sort of benevolent institution run by benevolent individuals. I think to surrender sovereignty to such people who are so nakedly pursuing power is a catastrophic decision because that sovereignty, once surrendered, cannot easily be regained without much suffering.

Or perhaps this-

"I beg you to accept that there is no people on Earth who would not prefer their own bad government to the good government of an alien power...Like other countries, ours will have its problems. But they will be OUR problems."


Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2019, 08:00:02 am »
Quote
people who will never see Brexit fukced it up for the ones who will experience it.  my sister-in-law's parents both voted to leave, they're in their seventies.  my sister-in-law was so angry at them she couldn't talk to them for a few months

Let's see, the most impulsive, most short-term thinking, most hormone-driven demographic, most coddled, which has the lowest rates of business ownership, savings, leadership and managerial experience, and least amount of capital at stake, the young, thinks Brexit is a bad idea.

Well, I'm convinced.

what are you blathering on about here?  this new selfish 'generation' you speak of, is you all over.  this is the self-absorbed, baseball game watching cheapskates sat around a phone in a restaurant watching a game. 

as you directly quoted this bit about my SiL, I'll respond.  with regards to my SiL, she's in her mid-forties living in Berlin with my brother and two nephews, my brother being part of the brain drain from the UK, working as a nuclear safety technician there.  brexit is causing him untold stress, as at the moment Germany is trying to process residency visas for current UK nationals there in preparation for brexit.  he shouldn't really worry, as there really aren't that many Germans with his skill set, but he does, as he has investments, property and his home is there.  they don't want to return to the UK as they are settled there, their kids are happy in school, but as brexit is a big fat unknown now, with regards to pension, to name one big part, who knows what is in store.  this small-minded, narrowly-defined 'generation' that only you know of through your lack of life experience, don't know about these others who have more to lose or compromise from brexit, but as you just want to lump them all together shows your uninformed black/white view of the world.  please educate yourself more. 



Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2019, 09:18:11 am »
what are you blathering on about here?  this new selfish 'generation' you speak of, is you all over.  this is the self-absorbed, baseball game watching cheapskates sat around a phone in a restaurant watching a game.
How is it self-absorbed for people eating together to watch a baseball game on a phone together? You do realize smartphone cases have attachments that can be propped up and angled so everyone can glance at the screen and that when you watch BASEBALL you watch it as a background thing, right? That's how baseball is enjoyed in America- it's always on, but it's usually in the background. On the TV at the barber shop. On the tv at the bar. On the radio while you're gardening or working on a car.

Also, did you go drinking again? Wet brain acting up? You're barely coherant these days.

The older generation knows how to spot a messed up system and when someone doesn't have their interests at heart. They know how to spot people whose actions don't match their words. See above- If the EU is such a benevolent institution and its leaders are such great, tolerant, freedom-loving people, why do they get so upset at countries that don't want to be part of it?

That shouldn't bother them. It does. That means they're not to be trusted.


Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #132 on: May 29, 2019, 09:33:24 am »
Also, did you go drinking again? Wet brain acting up? You're barely coherant these days.

cool bro!  how old are you again?  the insults of a child-like mentality.   :rolleyes:


  • kyndo
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    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
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Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #133 on: May 29, 2019, 12:10:57 pm »
Kyndo, if you'll permit this silly indulgence, you're a Trekkie aren't you if I recall? Remember the TNG episode 'First Contact' when Picard and crew meet a civilization on the cusp of warp technology?

PICARD: ...But how we proceed is entirely up to you.
DURKEN: And if my wishes should conflict with yours?
PICARD: There'll be no conflict.
DURKEN: And if I should tell you to leave and never return to my world?
PICARD: We will leave and never return.
      I'm ashamed to say that while I really love Sci-fi, I've never been hugely into Star-Trek (although I've watched a good number of episodes from each series, and most of the flicks).
      I have a hard time swallowing the utopian United Earth thing, and an even harder time accepting that there are hundreds of civilizations packed so closely together and that they all happen to be within a stone throw of each other, technologically speaking.


If the EU is such a benevolent organization that respects human rights, democracy, and free will, why does it get so agitated and controlling when member states want to leave or "vote the wrong way" when it comes to adopting EU rules?

Doesn't that strongly suggest that the EU doesn't exist to enhance the quality of life of its citizenry, but instead to further the careers of those who are invested in it and part of its power structure? Shouldn't the normal reaction of a state withdrawing or deciding not to enter be one of "We respect your choice and lets see how we can have the most friendliest and mutually beneficial relations", not lets see what punitive measures we can enact since you refuse to be part of our great organization?
Does it really have to be one or the other?
   In my opinion, the EU does really attempt to make the lives and economies of it's member states better but is, of course, held back by all the bureaucratic BS it's mired down in. And having more member states makes the union a more effective trade union, which gives it a strong incentive to pull in as many states as it can.
    The real test of the EU's benevolence is whether it will gracefully allow member states to pull out. Convince, cajole, and manipulate all they like, but at the end of the day, if they  let Britain out without disproportionate punitive measures, then it'll have proven itself as mostly benevolent.
   And I say disproportionate, because punitive measures aren't unreasonable. The UK has invested a lot of time, money, and political capital becoming part of the EU, but the EU has done the same in accepting Britain. Easy entry and exit to the union somewhat negates its purpose in creating singular economy that can trade with other powerful economies without being utterly devoured.


  • NorthStar
  • Hero of Waygookistan

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    • Mouseville
Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #134 on: May 29, 2019, 01:57:05 pm »
Quote
The older generation knows how to spot a messed up system and when someone doesn't have their interests at heart. They know how to spot people whose actions don't match their words. See above- If the EU is such a benevolent institution and its leaders are such great, tolerant, freedom-loving people, why do they get so upset at countries that don't want to be part of it?

That shouldn't bother them. It does. That means they're not to be trusted.

I can empathize with that. 

National sovereignty should be the priority...but as an American, this is not my monkey.  Thus, not my circus. 

However, as I spent some time traveling last year, I meet folks from England that talked about both sides.  In one hand, I heard from the young bucks, who simply made fun of "your average Brexit supporter" but never really added anything I would consider useful.  All I heard was the typical name calling (seemed quite programmed to me) but no real objective reasons to remain with the EU. 

In the other hand, I spoke with folks who were very much in support of Brexit, as the EU (to them) is counter to what they believe is the English way of life.  They were very proud of their country, culture and history.  They know the shortcomings but ddin't dwell on them.  They just made their as to why they felt being in the EU was wrong for their country (immigration was one, economic links another, along with loosing their culture and not being able to do anything about it.).  I don't see anything wrong with that and they presented their cases quite cordially ...



  • SanderB
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Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #135 on: May 29, 2019, 04:34:48 pm »
Also, did you go drinking again? Wet brain acting up? You're barely coherant these days.

I mean, isn't THAT mistake you made quite telling? ;D Oh my days, good Sir, please stop. You'll have me smiling mysteriously for weeks. :azn:
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 04:40:43 pm by SanderB »
Fiat voluntas tua- What you want is allowed


  • SanderB
  • Super Waygook

    • 437

    • June 02, 2018, 06:25:54 pm
    • Burning Oil Be Best
Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #136 on: May 29, 2019, 04:58:53 pm »
They just made their as to why they felt being in the EU was wrong for their country (immigration was one, economic links another, along with loosing their culture and not being able to do anything about it.

They are misinformed and in denial of the real economic impact, meaning lower income families and pensioners will foot the bill for what's arguably the worst economic decision a country could make with Italy, Spain and Greece teetering on the brink.

What on Earth is Britishness worth to you if you haven't got the money to heat your home?
Fiat voluntas tua- What you want is allowed


Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #137 on: May 29, 2019, 05:11:18 pm »
Also, did you go drinking again? Wet brain acting up? You're barely coherant these days.

I mean, isn't THAT mistake you made quite telling? ;D Oh my days, good Sir, please stop. You'll have me smiling mysteriously for weeks. :azn:

Well played sir.  :laugh:  If you're going to sit on your high horse, you'd better not make any mis-steaks.  Maybe he's had too much 'Cham E-Seul'.


Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #138 on: May 29, 2019, 06:41:35 pm »
Quote
They were very proud of their country, culture and history.

They should probably keep that to themselves. This is England in 2019 we're talking about, where flying the flag of St George is routinely banned.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6534923/pc-killjoys-including-tesco-and-bradford-council-have-banned-offensive-st-george-flags/

and just voicing the opinion that Britain might sometimes have been a force for good in the past is likely to get you ostracised.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/nigel-biggar-oxford-professor-ostracised-defending-empire/   


  • SanderB
  • Super Waygook

    • 437

    • June 02, 2018, 06:25:54 pm
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Re: Waygook's Unofficial 2nd Brexit Vote (The People's Vote)
« Reply #139 on: May 29, 2019, 09:25:46 pm »
Hold on now, dearest Eggs, isn't that only because of the whole Scottish Independence thingy and the Scots being fuming rightfully so over the fact that they are getting yet another thing they vehemently are opposed to stuffed down their throats by the English: Brexit.

This has got nothing to do with not being able to be English but all with discriminating against the Scottish Parliament and the will of their people being denied by the English.

And if you are claiming that the British Empire is called the Evil Empire for no good reason, then you and I, Sir, are henceforth to be at odds with each other, and I shall regret our acquaintance immediately.  :sad:
I do say so very adamantly, Sir!
Fiat voluntas tua- What you want is allowed