Read 7911 times

Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #100 on: February 07, 2019, 02:18:15 pm »
BTW...I never said I wink other expats,...the older Koreans.  They like it.   So, you can either chill out, or, take your urban angst and job on.
Whatever. Fair enough but it's an obnoxious thing to do to strangers you have NO relationship with. Friends or even strangers you're having a moment with, sure. I know it sounds like I'm being rather Puritan on this and I'm not. Like I said, all you need is a "moment" with a stranger and it can be okay.

But yeah, if some dude randomly winked at me on the street? There's something wrong there.


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1846

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #101 on: February 07, 2019, 02:35:13 pm »
who the hell goes around winking at strangers in the street?


Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #102 on: February 07, 2019, 02:54:20 pm »
who the hell goes around winking at strangers in the street?

Who the hell gets so bent out of shape about acts of kinds, while taking the matter of out context, dodging about with petty questions?

OH...the chumps who were formerly on Dave's ESL Cafe, and migrated here, doing the same thing(s). 


Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #103 on: February 07, 2019, 03:04:20 pm »
who the hell goes around winking at strangers in the street?
Like I said, the kind of person who does that stuff in Asia, but never would in the hood.


Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #104 on: February 07, 2019, 03:09:11 pm »
who the hell goes around winking at strangers in the street?
Like I said, the kind of person who does that stuff in Asia, but never would in the hood.

At least the older Koreans have smarts to appreciate it...


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1846

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #105 on: February 07, 2019, 04:00:14 pm »
or they think you're mental


Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #106 on: February 07, 2019, 04:29:03 pm »
or they think you're mental

Nah...they smile back, sometimes with a reciprocal wink.  Older folks appreciate that, at least, those older than me.  Being noticed in a nice way provides a nice feeling. 

If they take that as being "mental"...well, that is better than being some washed-up, butt-hurt crabby-cakes who is trying to be relevant, such as yourself.


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1846

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #107 on: February 07, 2019, 05:17:37 pm »


  • gogators!
  • The Legend

    • 3401

    • March 16, 2016, 04:35:48 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #108 on: February 08, 2019, 05:36:13 am »
No one ever heard that a wink's as good as a nod?


Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #109 on: February 08, 2019, 09:02:24 am »
or they think you're mental

Nah...they smile back, sometimes with a reciprocal wink.  Older folks appreciate that, at least, those older than me.  Being noticed in a nice way provides a nice feeling. 

If they take that as being "mental"...well, that is better than being some washed-up, butt-hurt crabby-cakes who is trying to be relevant, such as yourself.

So why are you winking at random people on the street?


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 4938

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #110 on: February 08, 2019, 10:22:08 am »
So why are you winking at random people on the street?
Because clearly he/she is Russian.
:wink:


   
Every ethnic group that shares the same culture, and language, will form ethnic enclaves... if their numbers are large enough in a particular area. And these enclaves will last about a generation (25-ish years) after their immigration numbers dwindle in that host area.
   That's generally true, but not all groups will form them as quickly, as thoroughly, or as lastingly.
   I'm not sure if I can dig up the exact studies I read, but this is general gist of what I'm trying to get at:

"The economic assimilation of European-origin immigrants is fairly rapid but selectively culture contingent; the economic assimilation of racial minority immigrants is less rapid and less culture contingent.. ...Assimilationist pressures that the survey showed to be widely perceived may apply more to Europeans than to racial minorities. Economic assimilation is affected when "foreignness" is most pronounced: very selectively for European immigrants and universally for racial minorities treated as "foreign," presumably based on skin color, regardless of specific culture, identity, behaviors, or network affiliations."
Source

Even among Caucasians, certain sub-groups tend to assimilate faster in English speaking countries than others, with the rate of assimilation depending on various factors such as cultural-linguistic distance from the host country.




  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1469

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #111 on: February 08, 2019, 11:01:34 am »
Every ethnic group that shares the same culture, and language, will form ethnic enclaves... if their numbers are large enough in a particular area. And these enclaves will last about a generation (25-ish years) after their immigration numbers dwindle in that host area.
   That's generally true, but not all groups will form them as quickly, as thoroughly, or as lastingly.
   I'm not sure if I can dig up the exact studies I read, but this is general gist of what I'm trying to get at:

"The economic assimilation of European-origin immigrants is fairly rapid but selectively culture contingent; the economic assimilation of racial minority immigrants is less rapid and less culture contingent.. ...Assimilationist pressures that the survey showed to be widely perceived may apply more to Europeans than to racial minorities. Economic assimilation is affected when "foreignness" is most pronounced: very selectively for European immigrants and universally for racial minorities treated as "foreign," presumably based on skin color, regardless of specific culture, identity, behaviors, or network affiliations."
Source

Even among Caucasians, certain sub-groups tend to assimilate faster in English speaking countries than others, with the rate of assimilation depending on various factors such as cultural-linguistic distance from the host country.

I'm just wondering which groups you view as not assimilating as quickly, thoroughly, or lastingly, in Canada/USA?

The actual immigrant is essentially a write-off. But their kids, in Canada/USA, will be assimilated, speaking the local language.

I'd say in countries that grant children citizenship, without major/legal barriers to make a life in that country, will be assimilated virtually all the time like in the USA/Canada's case.


Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #112 on: February 08, 2019, 11:04:49 am »
Every ethnic group that shares the same culture, and language, will form ethnic enclaves... if their numbers are large enough in a particular area. And these enclaves will last about a generation (25-ish years) after their immigration numbers dwindle in that host area.
   That's generally true, but not all groups will form them as quickly, as thoroughly, or as lastingly.
   I'm not sure if I can dig up the exact studies I read, but this is general gist of what I'm trying to get at:

"The economic assimilation of European-origin immigrants is fairly rapid but selectively culture contingent; the economic assimilation of racial minority immigrants is less rapid and less culture contingent.. ...Assimilationist pressures that the survey showed to be widely perceived may apply more to Europeans than to racial minorities. Economic assimilation is affected when "foreignness" is most pronounced: very selectively for European immigrants and universally for racial minorities treated as "foreign," presumably based on skin color, regardless of specific culture, identity, behaviors, or network affiliations."
Source

Even among Caucasians, certain sub-groups tend to assimilate faster in English speaking countries than others, with the rate of assimilation depending on various factors such as cultural-linguistic distance from the host country.

I'm just wondering which groups you view as not assimilating as quickly, thoroughly, or lastingly, in Canada/USA?

The actual immigrant is essentially a write-off. But their kids, in Canada/USA, will be assimilated, speaking the local language.

I'd say in countries that grant children citizenship, without major/legal barriers to make a life in that country, will be assimilated virtually all the time like in the USA/Canada's case.

I'm not sure what the data says, but I had a roommate that was of Russian descent and he once told me he needed to marry a pure Russian girl to "keep the bloodline pure." The guy spoke great English, but I'm not sure if his mindset on certain things would be considered fully "assimilated."


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 4938

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #113 on: February 08, 2019, 02:18:16 pm »
I'm just wondering which groups you view as not assimilating as quickly, thoroughly, or lastingly, in Canada/USA?

The actual immigrant is essentially a write-off. But their kids, in Canada/USA, will be assimilated, speaking the local language.

I'd say in countries that grant children citizenship, without major/legal barriers to make a life in that country, will be assimilated virtually all the time like in the USA/Canada's case.

    In my opinion, a pretty good sign of poor integration would be any group where the second (or even third) generation doesn't necessarily speak the local language very well. In Canada, I suppose this would include Mainland Chinese, Russian, Pakistani, and Indian etc. I've had 2nd gen ELL students from most of these groups, and most of them definitely tend to stick together whenever possible and, if left to themselves, would rarely speak English amongst themselves in the classroom.

   This contrasts pretty sharply to immigrants from northern and western Europe, who -- aside from an accent -- could pass for a local pretty easily. They also tend to be less likely to form enclaves.

   Cultural distance can make integration pretty difficult, especially if the country one has immigrated to is wary of outsiders (like, for example, Korea).
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 02:39:05 pm by kyndo »


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1469

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #114 on: February 08, 2019, 03:29:35 pm »
I'm just wondering which groups you view as not assimilating as quickly, thoroughly, or lastingly, in Canada/USA?

The actual immigrant is essentially a write-off. But their kids, in Canada/USA, will be assimilated, speaking the local language.

I'd say in countries that grant children citizenship, without major/legal barriers to make a life in that country, will be assimilated virtually all the time like in the USA/Canada's case.

    In my opinion, a pretty good sign of poor integration would be any group where the second (or even third) generation doesn't necessarily speak the local language very well. In Canada, I suppose this would include Mainland Chinese, Russian, Pakistani, and Indian etc. I've had 2nd gen ELL students from most of these groups, and most of them definitely tend to stick together whenever possible and, if left to themselves, would rarely speak English amongst themselves in the classroom.

   This contrasts pretty sharply to immigrants from northern and western Europe, who -- aside from an accent -- could pass for a local pretty easily. They also tend to be less likely to form enclaves.

   Cultural distance can make integration pretty difficult, especially if the country one has immigrated to is wary of outsiders (like, for example, Korea).
Not sure who you met, but that isn't my experience at all. I'm a 2nd generation Korean-Canadian, and all my 2nd generation Asian-Canadian friends speak English as their primary language. Not sure who you met, but perhaps they were 1.5 (born overseas, but immigrated before they were 18), who may say their 2nd generation, but aren't. I know many like to claim they were born in country, but you can often tell by their accents (depends at what age they arrived) it obviously isn't true. Some who came before 12-ish years old often sound native though, but probably still more comfortable in their 1st languages.

Our ancestral language skills vary widely, some pretty fluent, and some barely can speak a word of their parent's languages. If among ourselves we'll use english, unless we are with one of our immigrant cousins.


Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #115 on: February 08, 2019, 09:12:55 pm »
Hmmm, interesting.   In the small town where I now reside there are 2 Chinese immigrant families that

live here.   They have been here for 20 + years and the children were raised and schooled in Canada.

I don't know if this is true for all the 2nd gen kids, but I've noticed that the ones I interact with on a

regular basis may sound like native speakers, but lack some of the more advanced skills.   When talking to

my friend I find that his vocabulary is limited and he has trouble expressing himself in more complex sentences.

He seems to contradict himself often and he will often say the opposite of what he's trying to say.

I feel sorry for him as I know his lack of English skills has made his life more difficult, but I am not sure

that he can be helped because he is too proud to admit that he needs improvement and any kind of

constructive criticism is met with bitterness and anger. 


How's that for the King of run on sentences?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 09:14:40 pm by some waygug-in »


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1469

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #116 on: February 08, 2019, 10:21:53 pm »
Hmmm, interesting.   In the small town where I now reside there are 2 Chinese immigrant families that

live here.   They have been here for 20 + years and the children were raised and schooled in Canada.

I don't know if this is true for all the 2nd gen kids, but I've noticed that the ones I interact with on a

regular basis may sound like native speakers, but lack some of the more advanced skills.   When talking to

my friend I find that his vocabulary is limited and he has trouble expressing himself in more complex sentences.

He seems to contradict himself often and he will often say the opposite of what he's trying to say.

I feel sorry for him as I know his lack of English skills has made his life more difficult, but I am not sure

that he can be helped because he is too proud to admit that he needs improvement and any kind of

constructive criticism is met with bitterness and anger. 


How's that for the King of run on sentences?
How old is this person? And perhaps he's just not educated, and as well-read as you. Growing up in my town, and now many many year later, just say a lot of my white former high school classmates sound... well... like dumb-asses.


  • kyndo
  • Moderator LVL 1

    • 4938

    • March 03, 2011, 09:45:24 am
    • Gyeongsangbuk-do
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #117 on: February 08, 2019, 10:57:08 pm »
Not sure who you met, but that isn't my experience at all. I'm a 2nd generation Korean-Canadian, and all my 2nd generation Asian-Canadian friends speak English as their primary language. Not sure who you met, but perhaps they were 1.5 (born overseas, but immigrated before they were 18), who may say their 2nd generation, but aren't. I know many like to claim they were born in country, but you can often tell by their accents (depends at what age they arrived) it obviously isn't true. Some who came before 12-ish years old often sound native though, but probably still more comfortable in their 1st languages.

Our ancestral language skills vary widely, some pretty fluent, and some barely can speak a word of their parent's languages. If among ourselves we'll use english, unless we are with one of our immigrant cousins.
     Oh, many of them were definitely 1st generation (or 1.5ers, like you say), but if you go to places like Richmond or Surrey in the Vancouver metropolitan area there are schools where the majority of students belong to immigrant families. Of these kids, a fair number were born and raised in the neighbourhood but still require extensive English remedial classes. Many schools there hire ELL specialists to help those children. It's not really surprising when you have over half a million people of Chinese descent living in an area to find that a fair number of them don't feel the need to speak anything other than Mandarin, regardless of how long they've lived there.

     Don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to say that all Chinese immigrants and their locally-born kids can't speak English. I'm just pointing out that it does occasionally come up, and that when it does, it demonstrates how some enclaves can fulfill all the needs of those that live in them to the point where the city outside the enclave is pretty superfluous to its residents. In Canada, the ethnicities most likely to form such strong enclaves tend to be from China, Korea, India, etc, etc.  In Korea, the ethnicities most likely to form strong enclaves would probably be different.

   Anyway, I'm sure you're right in that YMMV.  :undecided:
   I mean, outside of Van and Toronto, these kinds of issues tend to pop up much less frequently. 


Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #118 on: February 08, 2019, 11:53:37 pm »
Hmmm, interesting.   In the small town where I now reside there are 2 Chinese immigrant families that

live here.   They have been here for 20 + years and the children were raised and schooled in Canada.

I don't know if this is true for all the 2nd gen kids, but I've noticed that the ones I interact with on a

regular basis may sound like native speakers, but lack some of the more advanced skills.   When talking to

my friend I find that his vocabulary is limited and he has trouble expressing himself in more complex sentences.

He seems to contradict himself often and he will often say the opposite of what he's trying to say.

I feel sorry for him as I know his lack of English skills has made his life more difficult, but I am not sure

that he can be helped because he is too proud to admit that he needs improvement and any kind of

constructive criticism is met with bitterness and anger. 


How's that for the King of run on sentences?
How old is this person? And perhaps he's just not educated, and as well-read as you. Growing up in my town, and now many many year later, just say a lot of my white former high school classmates sound... well... like dumb-asses.

He's in his late 20's or perhaps early 30's.   I am not sure his exact age.  He told me he and his family came to Canada when he was about 8 years old. (yes, I know that makes a difference)  He went to school in rural Sask.
and finished his basic education.   I think his younger brother has a better grasp of English. (only a couple of years
difference in their ages)   The older brother still can't say his "th" sounds and replaces them with an "F"

I am trying to think of an example of something he might say, but I can't come up with anything right now.

He tends to overuse certain phrases and use them in contexts where they don't make sense.

One example I can think of is "to be honest".   Nothing wrong with the phrase, but it shouldn't be used
all the time they way he uses it.

He will want to talk about current events, so he'll bring up a news story and ask if I've heard about it.
He will go on and on about the story and then draw some really weird conclusion about it.
So I will say I don't think that's what's happening and he will come back with,"that's what I'm saying",

as if everything he just said were the complete opposite of what he meant.

Incidently, I used to have a Korean girlfriend who did this same thing.   It could be very frustrating at
times trying to understand her.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 12:15:29 am by some waygug-in »


  • pkjh
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1469

    • May 02, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Re: Other Foreigners that look guilty af when they walk by you
« Reply #119 on: February 09, 2019, 07:47:01 pm »
He's in his late 20's or perhaps early 30's.   I am not sure his exact age.  He told me he and his family came to Canada when he was about 8 years old. (yes, I know that makes a difference)
That kind of explains it, although 8, that's pretty early though. And his brother being like 5, or 6, would make  a massive difference.

Anyways, I find those generally who come before 12-ish do learn English a lot better those who come later. But it does vary. I went to University with a bunch of guys from Hong Kong, all of them came around grade 7/8, age 13/14-ish. I'd say maybe about half of them sound pretty good (a few minor errors), but the other half do have a noticeable Chinese accent.