Nationalism in children

it's the lure of the hypothetical false analogy--it' got a very strong appeal.

Regarding SK's and the US"s success and lack of success against Covid-19, that's certainly due to the approaches each government took to combatting the pandemic rather than to hygiene.

But what if Lebron James decided to have a sex change so he could compete as a woman transgender athlete? Birds of a feather...

Well I admire the patience that some posters have for debunking those hypothetical false analogies that Marty is famous for. However, I'd suggest that posters such as Marty should have a moderation imposed warning system alerting readers to his deliberate misinformation.   

Actually, differences in hygiene practices are NOT hypotheticals or analogies. Unless you claim that people shaking hands in the western world is either a hypothetical or an analogy....

Which makes me wonder how good your thought process really is if you actually think those are hypotheticals or analogies.

The point I made was that if these hygienic practices that we claim are important, truly were important, then we should have seen different results, even with government measures (it's not like people with COVID instantly show symptoms- that's 7-14 days of some "dirty" Korean person spitting and sharing food plates and not covering their mouth and blah blah blah). Turns out shit didn't make that big a difference.

How's this- Why doesn't anyone here consider the possibility that maybe they were wrong? That maybe this stuff ISN'T as impactful as is claimed to be?

Actually, differences in hygiene practices are NOT hypotheticals or analogies. Unless you claim that people shaking hands in the western world is either a hypothetical or an analogy....

Which makes me wonder how good your thought process really is if you actually think those are hypotheticals or analogies.

The point I made was that if these hygienic practices that we claim are important, truly were important, then we should have seen different results, even with government measures (it's not like people with COVID instantly show symptoms- that's 7-14 days of some "dirty" Korean person spitting and sharing food plates and not covering their mouth and blah blah blah). Turns out shit didn't make that big a difference.

How's this- Why doesn't anyone here consider the possibility that maybe they were wrong? That maybe this stuff ISN'T as impactful as is claimed to be?

It's ALL important.

That's the flaw in many of your arguments, that A, B, or Z just doesn't make any difference. Washing one's hands has been shown time and again to make a difference in the spread of disease.

But what has made the biggest difference is obviously the governments' responses and the two populations' degrees of compliance.

But what has made the biggest difference is obviously the governments' responses and the two populations' degrees of compliance.

This is correct. And the greater compliance in East Asia comes from Confucianism (“five relations,” group needs over individual, etc), which DeMartino says doesn’t exist. America just doesn’t have this social technology, instead, freedom culture is not big on working together or obeying ”da gubermint.”

As far as how this relates to hygiene, local subjective hygiene culture isn’t anywhere near the driver as the above social infrastructure culture. And the two intersect: the govt says “wear a mask and use hand cleaner, cause hygiene” and Korean do.

But what has made the biggest difference is obviously the governments' responses and the two populations' degrees of compliance.

Hand-washing/Spitting/etc. make marginal differences.

This thing has an incubation period of like 5-15 days. During that time these people are going home and sharing food and going to noraebangs and smoking and spitting around other people and eating and other crap. Plenty of time for it to spread uncontrollably.

"Koreans don't follow rules, they'd mess up during a disaster"- Pre-pandemic stereotyped prediction.

"Koreans did well because they followed the rules and are compliant people"- In-pandemic stereotyped explanation.

That's the parlor trick of prejudice and "culture"- you can twist it any way you like to diminish the other.

Hand-washing/Spitting/etc. make marginal differences.

This thing has an incubation period of like 5-15 days. During that time these people are going home and sharing food and going to noraebangs and smoking and spitting around other people and eating and other crap. Plenty of time for it to spread uncontrollably.

"Koreans don't follow rules, they'd mess up during a disaster"- Pre-pandemic stereotyped prediction.

"Koreans did well because they followed the rules and are compliant people"- In-pandemic stereotyped explanation.

That's the parlor trick of prejudice and "culture"- you can twist it any way you like to diminish the other.

Hand washing makes a significant difference in the transmission of infectious diseases.

The rest of your post is babble and throwing the race card.

I live in Florida and am vaccinated. Yet I'm surrounded by people who aren't, so once again have had to curtail my outside activities and wear a mask at the grocery store, etc. I'm all for compliance.

"Due to advances in healthcare and hygiene around the world, the number of older adults continues to increase (United Nations, 2019)."

Argue with that.

Hand washing makes a significant difference in the transmission of infectious diseases.

The rest of your post is babble and throwing the race card.

I live in Florida and am vaccinated. Yet I'm surrounded by people who aren't, so once again have had to curtail my outside activities and wear a mask at the grocery store, etc. I'm all for compliance.

If it made a significant difference, you should have seen a significantly different outcome in Korea.

People contaminate their hands often within minutes or seconds of washing them.

The major advances in hygeine are due to water treatment, refrigeration and waste management and the ability to not live in total squalor.

If it made a significant difference, you should have seen a significantly different outcome in Korea.

People contaminate their hands often within minutes or seconds of washing them.

The major advances in hygeine are due to water treatment, refrigeration and waste management and the ability to not live in total squalor.

Here, some nice person has spelled it out for you.

"Washing hands prevents illnesses and spread of infections to others
Handwashing with soap removes germs from hands. This helps prevent infections because:

People frequently touch their eyes, nose, and mouth without even realizing it. Germs can get into the body through the eyes, nose and mouth and make us sick.
Germs from unwashed hands can get into foods and drinks while people prepare or consume them. Germs can multiply in some types of foods or drinks, under certain conditions, and make people sick.
Germs from unwashed hands can be transferred to other objects, like handrails, table tops, or toys, and then transferred to another person’s hands.
Removing germs through handwashing therefore helps prevent diarrhea and respiratory infections and may even help prevent skin and eye infections.
Teaching people about handwashing helps them and their communities stay healthy. Handwashing education in the community:

Reduces the number of people who get sick with diarrhea by 23-40% 2, 3, 6
Reduces diarrheal illness in people with weakened immune systems by 58%  4
Reduces respiratory illnesses, like colds, in the general population by 16-21% 3, 5
Reduces absenteeism due to gastrointestinal illness in schoolchildren by 29-57% 7
Not washing hands harms children around the world
About 1.8 million children under the age of 5 die each year from diarrheal diseases and pneumonia, the top two killers of young children around the
world 8.

Handwashing with soap could protect about 1 out of every 3 young children who get sick with diarrhea 2, 3 and almost 1 out of 5 young children with respiratory infections like pneumonia 3, 5.
Although people around the world clean their hands with water, very few use soap to wash their hands. Washing hands with soap removes germs much more effectively 9.
Handwashing education and access to soap in schools can help improve attendance 10, 11, 12.
Good handwashing early in life may help improve child development in some settings 13."

As for a different outcome in Korea, I'd like to see some proof.