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  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4375

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2018, 03:00:08 pm »
Me: Hey, do you know what happened to the Korean restaurant that was here? Did they relocate?
Burger Guy: I'm not sure. I think they -
Burger Guy's Wife: Do you like Korean food?
Me: Yeah. So -
BGW: Oh but so spicy!

Hahaha. the shit that wouldn't fly in Toronto to any Asian looking person.

A) Wow, you can speak English?

B) Can you eat poutine? REALLY????? Isn't it not Asian enough?

C) Don't worry, this is a really democratic country, you're safe here not like in (country X)

D) You're so exotic! Do that Asian thing I've heard about!
The joys of fauxtherhood


  • Cyanea
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1052

    • September 04, 2016, 01:48:24 pm
    • Las Vegas
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2018, 03:15:50 pm »

Me: Hey, do you know what happened to the Korean restaurant that was here? Did they relocate?
Burger Guy: I'm not sure. I think they -
Burger Guy's Wife: Do you like Korean food?
Me: Yeah. So -
BGW (laughing hysterically, like I'd told an incredible joke): Oh but so spicy!
BG: They didn't tell me -
BGW: Too spicy!
Me: Ah, I was hoping they'd just moved somewhere else locally.
BGW: Can you eat? I think it's too spicy for you.
Me: Uh, yeah, I really liked that place.
BGW (hysterical laughter again): Really? But so spicy.
BG: No, I don't know where they went.
Me: Oh well, I'll try to look them up online. I'll miss their kimchi.
BGW (now exploding with incredulous laughter): REALLY???? Kimchi?
BG: Yeah, sorry about that.
BGW: No, I think it's too spicy for you.

Lol.

What you're really up against here is a refusal to let go of the Korean sense of superiority, as expressed in its supposedly unique macho ability to tolerate spiciness.

The woman felt threatened by the idea that anyone can enjoy spicy food, not just Koreans. It threatened her ethnic uniqueness. So as not to lose her fragile sense of self, she insisted on repeatedly imposing her perception over reality and infantilizing the foreigner.


The other day I mentioned to someone that I had been on holiday to Laos and Mongolia. She instantly gave a frown of disbelief, which continued until I had to actually pull my phone out and show her photos of me in both countries. Only then did she accept that yes, I had been to both places.


This Korean trait is evident also in the excessive and humiliating amount of documents a foreigner is forced to provide in order to get a visa.

Catch my drift?


  • CO2
  • The Legend

    • 4375

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2018, 03:20:24 pm »
This Korean trait is evident also in the excessive and humiliating amount of documents a foreigner is forced to provide in order to get a visa.

I still think that once your uni records are checked once, then that should be enough. Keep it on file nationally.

If I go home for a year and come back, then check my CRC, fair play. But I can't LOSE my F'ING degree. That's permanent. I graduated. It's finished. Jesus.

CO2
Degree: Check
TESOL: Check

Like, how hard is this? Also, employment records. Letters of employment back home are more necessary because it's not like every move is being watched all the time, at least not to the same degree it is here. Immigration should be able to print off a complete summary of my job experience here on request, and hell, let's say 10 000W. It's ALL being tracked, ALL THE TIME. ALWAYS!
The joys of fauxtherhood


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2018, 03:56:52 pm »
This Korean trait is evident also in the excessive and humiliating amount of documents a foreigner is forced to provide in order to get a visa.
Your degree and a CBC, apostilled, are an excessive amount? Now I agree there are things that could be more streamlined, but it's not like this is some MASSIVE BURDEN.


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1891

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2018, 03:59:10 pm »
This Korean trait is evident also in the excessive and humiliating amount of documents a foreigner is forced to provide in order to get a visa.
Your degree and a CBC, apostilled, are an excessive amount? Now I agree there are things that could be more streamlined, but it's not like this is some MASSIVE BURDEN.
massive hassle getting though. i left korea and came back, and had to get the same documents all over again! why not just keep them on file? surely they'll all be on the system already.


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2018, 04:00:26 pm »

I still think that once your uni records are checked once, then that should be enough. Keep it on file nationally.

If I go home for a year and come back, then check my CRC, fair play. But I can't LOSE my F'ING degree. That's permanent. I graduated. It's finished. Jesus.

CO2
Degree: Check
TESOL: Check

Like, how hard is this? Also, employment records. Letters of employment back home are more necessary because it's not like every move is being watched all the time, at least not to the same degree it is here. Immigration should be able to print off a complete summary of my job experience here on request, and hell, let's say 10 000W. It's ALL being tracked, ALL THE TIME. ALWAYS!

I have a mixed view on this. On the one hand, this would make things way more efficient and would really simplify things.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what the bureacratic/legal framework would be for them possessing such records and all of that. I'm not sure a government database of such things would exist back home and I think there might be some concerns that such a move would create.

But yeah, practically speaking, it would save everyone a big headache if things were just centrally organized. Maybe people could opt in if they wanted, and if they want to do things the old-fashioned way, then they can opt out and deal with things that way.


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2018, 04:39:03 pm »
I'm not disputing that the process could be made less frustrating, but I've got to assume that the people complaining about it as a uniquely Korean thing haven't spent much time navigating other countries' systems. Korea is pretty efficient - and cheap - by comparison. I've had to deal with Britain, Italy and the US (for my wife) and all come with their own variations of bureaucratic madness.

When I started my MA in 2005, for example, the UK changed its student visa policy, so that they now had to be issued in the applicants' home countries instead of at the port of entry. Previously, you still needed all the appropriate paperwork, but the immigration official at the airport would stamp your passport. This change took effect in the middle of the summer, leaving just a few weeks before the start of term. To make matters worse, the Home Office didn't publicize the change effectively, leaving universities to follow the old method of sending their students the necessary documentation by post, without notifying students that they needed to get the visa in advance of arrival. A lot of universities' web pages for foreign students weren't even updated with the changes until the term had started. So I was one of many thousands of foreign students who turned up at Heathrow without a visa, which led to all of us getting officially deported (basically turned around on the next flight to our ports of origin - but the deportation stayed on our immigration records). The immigration officer who dealt with me kept trying to reassure me by saying it was no big deal, she'd handled with hundreds of students in my position over the last couple weeks, and at least I wasn't coming from Australia or New Zealand, like so many of the deportees...

That's just one story amongst many. Korea is not always a breeze, but don't assume that dealing with immigration is easier elsewhere. 


  • debbiem89
  • Super Waygook

    • 484

    • August 30, 2016, 09:42:49 am
    • South Korea
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2018, 10:51:08 am »
Nah. I don't think this is just Koreans. It's human nature....particularly with strangers.

Ever lost the TV remote? Your sibling will SWEAR they aren't sitting on it but you make them stand up anyway.


I think the incidents posted above don't prove it's a cultural thing at all.

Then how come Koreans can never believe I can eat spicy-as-shit food without showing them first?  :evil:

Bahaha omg you got me there. The spicy food comes and I can see their side eyes watching me carefully..

I don't really have anything to contribute regarding the original point of this thread, as I'm inclined to think that this is one of those things that a) is more universal than Korean or b) happens to every foreigner in Korea except me. But I wanted to share a recent experience. A few months ago a locally well-known burger restaurant, run by a guy who lived in the US and speaks very good English, moved into the premises recently vacated by what was an excellent Korean restaurant. Everything was really fresh and homemade, including some badass, ultra-fiery kimchi. No MSG or yellow radishes from the wholesale bag. I loved the burger place, too, but I wanted to find out if the Korean restaurant had relocated. So there we were at the cash register...

Me: Hey, do you know what happened to the Korean restaurant that was here? Did they relocate?
Burger Guy: I'm not sure. I think they -
Burger Guy's Wife: Do you like Korean food?
Me: Yeah. So -
BGW (laughing hysterically, like I'd told an incredible joke): Oh but so spicy!
BG: They didn't tell me -
BGW: Too spicy!
Me: Ah, I was hoping they'd just moved somewhere else locally.
BGW: Can you eat? I think it's too spicy for you.
Me: Uh, yeah, I really liked that place.
BGW (hysterical laughter again): Really? But so spicy.
BG: No, I don't know where they went.
Me: Oh well, I'll try to look them up online. I'll miss their kimchi.
BGW (now exploding with incredulous laughter): REALLY???? Kimchi?
BG: Yeah, sorry about that.
BGW: No, I think it's too spicy for you.

This drives me nuts. Honestly...I've started just saying that Korean food isn't even that spicy and they get PISSED OFF. it's like a medal of honour that they believe Korean food to be the spiciest in the world. I ask them if they've tried Indian or Mexican food and they screw their noses up and get huffy for the most part.


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2018, 11:12:35 am »
Yeah, I've tried explaining that I grew up eating Mexican food and Indian food almost as often as Western food, and they just stare at me uncomprehendingly.

The weird thing about all this, though, is how Koreans only seem to acknowledge a few (not especially spicy) dishes as being "too hot for foreigner". I've had several people act shocked that I can handle standard-grade kimchi, but show no reaction when I dive into a bowl of hellfire yukgaejang. Tteokbokki seems to be another one. I don't like it because I think it's gross - a corn-syrupy trash food that dirty kids get from convenience stores and stain their hands and mouths with before pulling your arm hair - but Koreans insist on telling me that I can't handle it because it's too spicy. To stave off the blandness, I used to ask for extra fresh chili peppers in my kimbab and rice burgers when I ate with my co-workers, and nobody ever commented. Then when we'd occasionally get something different, like pizza, I'd get dire warnings about the spicy chicken topping.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 01:38:43 pm by Andyman »


  • debbiem89
  • Super Waygook

    • 484

    • August 30, 2016, 09:42:49 am
    • South Korea
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2018, 11:18:34 am »
Yeah, I've tried explaining that I grew up eating Mexican food and Indian food almost as often as Western food, and they just stare at me uncomprehendingly.

The weird thing about all this, though, is how Koreans only seem to acknowledge a few (not especially spicy) dishes as being "too hot for foreigner". I've had several people acted shocked that I can handle standard-grade kimchi, but show no reaction when I dive into a bowl of hellfire yukgaejang. Tteokbokki seems to be another one. I don't like it because I think it's gross - a corn-syrupy trash food that dirty kids get from convenience stores and stain their hands and mouths with before pulling your arm hair - but Koreans insist on telling me that I can't handle it because it's too spicy. To stave off the blandness, I used to ask for extra fresh chili peppers in my kimbab and rice burgers when I ate with my co-workers, and nobody ever commented. Then when we'd occasionally get something different, like pizza, I'd get dire warnings about the spicy chicken topping.

That is exactly my experience! Tteokbokki is just not spicy at all. I honestly don't understand that line of thinking but you're right it's one of the foods I've mostly been told I cannot eat as a foreigner.

Funnily enough too I've met very few Koreans who enjoy really spicy food. When we have this back and forth of me trying to convince them that I can be trusted to eat spicy food, I always ask if they enjoy spicy food and I'd say about 80% of the time they say no.


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 3903

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2018, 11:20:49 am »
Yeah, I've tried explaining that I grew up eating Mexican food and Indian food almost as often as Western food, and they just stare at me uncomprehendingly.

The weird thing about all this, though, is how Koreans only seem to acknowledge a few (not especially spicy) dishes as being "too hot for foreigner". I've had several people acted shocked that I can handle standard-grade kimchi, but show no reaction when I dive into a bowl of hellfire yukgaejang. Tteokbokki seems to be another one. I don't like it because I think it's gross - a corn-syrupy trash food that dirty kids get from convenience stores and stain their hands and mouths with before pulling your arm hair - but Koreans insist on telling me that I can't handle it because it's too spicy. To stave off the blandness, I used to ask for extra fresh chili peppers in my kimbab and rice burgers when I ate with my co-workers, and nobody ever commented. Then when we'd occasionally get something different, like pizza, I'd get dire warnings about the spicy chicken topping.
I think that people who don't like the flavours use "too spicy" as a euphemism for "this is gross!"

After hearing a few foreigners say this, it becomes canon.

I used to put "Italian" on the list with "Indian" and "Mexican", but Koreans insist that Italian food is not, because all they know is cream sauce and olive oil. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 11:52:22 am by JNM »


  • grey
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1502

    • April 08, 2011, 04:47:11 am
    • USA
    more
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2018, 11:27:21 am »
I'm willing to proxy the last dab for entertainment purposes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfVEkfXEV8

Say that it's what most Mexican food spice level sits around.
Ko fills half his luggage with instant noodles for his international business travels, a lesson he learned after assuming on his first trip that three packages would suffice for six days. “Man, was I wrong. Since then, I always make sure I pack enough.”
-AP


  • thunderlips
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1420

    • June 07, 2012, 10:01:55 am
    • South Korea
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2018, 11:49:26 am »
Did you know King Sejeong invented spicy food?


Spiciest dish I've ever had in Korea was at a Andong jjim-dak 안동 찜닭  place. It was spicy, but I could eat it. It was nothing compared to getting a beef and broccoli Thai dish with 3 out of 5 stars for spiciness. I couldn't finish the Thai dish, I was crying (watery eyes) and had a runny nose.

But yeah foreigners can't eat spicy foods... :rolleyes:


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2018, 12:09:39 pm »
The "problem" is that while most of us can handle spicy foods, including a lot of spice, there are a fair amount of foreigners out there who can't seem to handle ANY spice. Like, ddeokbokki or some gamjatang is too much. So while there are those of us who can put Koreans to shame, there aren't really any Koreans who can't handle ANY spice.

Also, we have to remember that from like, 1945-1985, spicy food back home was not the big thing it is today. It was much more regional, at least in the U.S. You were bold and daring if you hate jalapeno flavored chips. There was a generation of Koreans whose exposure to westerners were people who couldn't handle spice at all.
 
Growing up, neither me nor my mother could eat spice at all. My dad was nearly alone amongst almost all of our (non-immigrant) family friends in being able to handle spice. I eventually built up a tolerance. My mother never has. Now however, it's the norm amongst people say, 40 and under, to be able to handle spicy foods.

How many people back home think Koreans eat dog all the time, even though the pracitce has dramatically diminished amongst the young?


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2018, 01:46:14 pm »
The "problem" is that while most of us can handle spicy foods, including a lot of spice, there are a fair amount of foreigners out there who can't seem to handle ANY spice. Like, ddeokbokki or some gamjatang is too much. So while there are those of us who can put Koreans to shame, there aren't really any Koreans who can't handle ANY spice.

Also, we have to remember that from like, 1945-1985, spicy food back home was not the big thing it is today. It was much more regional, at least in the U.S. You were bold and daring if you hate jalapeno flavored chips. There was a generation of Koreans whose exposure to westerners were people who couldn't handle spice at all.
 
Growing up, neither me nor my mother could eat spice at all. My dad was nearly alone amongst almost all of our (non-immigrant) family friends in being able to handle spice. I eventually built up a tolerance. My mother never has. Now however, it's the norm amongst people say, 40 and under, to be able to handle spicy foods.

How many people back home think Koreans eat dog all the time, even though the pracitce has dramatically diminished amongst the young?

Okay, but would you try to rationalize this scenario the same way?

Korean working in the USA: I'll get a cheeseburger and fries, please.
American co-worker: You won't like that. It doesn't have dog meat.
Korean: That's okay, I eat cheeseburgers all the time.
American: REALLY? Wow!
Korean: Yeah, it's no problem.
American: This place doesn't season their fries with dried dog meat flakes, though. You can't eat it.
Korean: No, it's fine. Really. Koreans don't need to eat dog all the time.
American: Koreans only eat dog.
Korean: I ate many non-dog foods back in Korea. In fact, I've never eaten dog meat.
American: Koreans can't eat any food that doesn't contain dog. I'm sorry, this burger is 100% beef. You should be careful.


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2018, 01:48:08 pm »
The "problem" is that while most of us can handle spicy foods, including a lot of spice, there are a fair amount of foreigners out there who can't seem to handle ANY spice. Like, ddeokbokki or some gamjatang is too much. So while there are those of us who can put Koreans to shame, there aren't really any Koreans who can't handle ANY spice.

Also, we have to remember that from like, 1945-1985, spicy food back home was not the big thing it is today. It was much more regional, at least in the U.S. You were bold and daring if you hate jalapeno flavored chips. There was a generation of Koreans whose exposure to westerners were people who couldn't handle spice at all.
 
Growing up, neither me nor my mother could eat spice at all. My dad was nearly alone amongst almost all of our (non-immigrant) family friends in being able to handle spice. I eventually built up a tolerance. My mother never has. Now however, it's the norm amongst people say, 40 and under, to be able to handle spicy foods.

How many people back home think Koreans eat dog all the time, even though the pracitce has dramatically diminished amongst the young?

Okay, but would you try to rationalize this scenario the same way?

Korean working in the USA: I'll get a cheeseburger and fries, please.
American co-worker: You won't like that. It doesn't have dog meat.
Korean: That's okay, I eat cheeseburgers all the time.
American: REALLY? Wow!
Korean: Yeah, it's no problem.
American: This place doesn't season their fries with dried dog meat flakes, though. You can't eat it.
Korean: No, it's fine. Really. Koreans don't need to eat dog all the time.
American: Koreans only eat dog.
Korean: I ate many non-dog foods back in Korea. In fact, I've never eaten dog meat.
American: Koreans can't eat any food that doesn't contain dog. I'm sorry, this burger is 100% beef. You should be careful.

holy shit, if you think that comparison makes any sense...  :huh:


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2018, 01:50:27 pm »
It was meant to be kind of absurd, but reflective of how absurd the umpteenth warning about (not very) spicy food feels when you're on the receiving end.

And to point out that Koreans would feel insulted by that kind of conversation. I think I'm fairly thick-skinned, but I do bristle a bit at Koreans telling me that I'm incapable of something that I HAVE BEEN DOING MY ENTIRE LIFE on account of my ethnicity or nationality. 

Also, I think Koreans should operate under the assumption that if someone has been living or working in Korea for a while, they've successfully eaten Korean food. If they're talking to tourists, fine, make a big deal out of it... But if I met a Korean who'd been working or studying in the West, I wouldn't assume, This guy has never learned to use a fork and can't handle anything but rice and seaweed (and maybe dog).
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 01:59:54 pm by Andyman »


  • oglop
  • Hero of Waygookistan

    • 1891

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2018, 02:11:33 pm »
The "problem" is that while most of us can handle spicy foods, including a lot of spice, there are a fair amount of foreigners out there who can't seem to handle ANY spice. Like, ddeokbokki or some gamjatang is too much. So while there are those of us who can put Koreans to shame, there aren't really any Koreans who can't handle ANY spice.

Also, we have to remember that from like, 1945-1985, spicy food back home was not the big thing it is today. It was much more regional, at least in the U.S. You were bold and daring if you hate jalapeno flavored chips. There was a generation of Koreans whose exposure to westerners were people who couldn't handle spice at all.
 
Growing up, neither me nor my mother could eat spice at all. My dad was nearly alone amongst almost all of our (non-immigrant) family friends in being able to handle spice. I eventually built up a tolerance. My mother never has. Now however, it's the norm amongst people say, 40 and under, to be able to handle spicy foods.

How many people back home think Koreans eat dog all the time, even though the pracitce has dramatically diminished amongst the young?
yeah, pretty much. i think it's the "wow, ooooh, you're so good at eating spicy food" condescending attitude that annoys everyone though

for example, once in while we hang out with my wife's friends. we'll order chicken, tteokbokki or other "spicy" food. we eat this food every time. they know i eat this food, they have seen me eat this food. yet, every time, without fail, at least one of them will say "wow, you eat korean spicy food so well. you are now korean!"
1. it's not very spicy.
2. you make this comment every time. we have met countless times before
3. i am not a child. you don't have to congratulate me on eating bog-standard korean food


  • AMDC
  • Veteran

    • 95

    • April 19, 2018, 08:00:49 am
    • South Korea
Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2018, 02:42:21 pm »
Tteokbokki seems to be another one. I don't like it because I think it's gross - a corn-syrupy trash food that dirty kids get from convenience stores and stain their hands and mouths with before pulling your arm hair

This spoke to my hairy soul.


Re: Why do Koreans always have to see before they believe?
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2018, 02:49:31 pm »

yeah, pretty much. i think it's the "wow, ooooh, you're so good at eating spicy food" condescending attitude that annoys everyone though


yeah, i think this is really what bothers people. it's just the attitude. i just don't get why it bothers people? it just doesn't bother me.