Read 9469 times

Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2018, 12:19:21 pm »

It is fairly normal to be expected at work regardless of a typhoon, as you have a duty first to your place of employment.
it's pretty mental that the teachers have to come in, if it's deemed unsafe for the students to do so. especially as you'll be unable to do your job anyway

It would be a really interesting study for someone to actually try to sue their employers over something like this here. I know it isn't done and that it would be an uphill battle, but based on what I've learned so far there ARE enough Korean laws in place that someone could make a circus out of the legal system over it.

All it would take is just one case with enough national attention to change the norm.


  • SPQR
  • Super Waygook

    • 337

    • March 08, 2018, 07:04:54 pm
    • Canada
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2018, 12:46:56 pm »
Unless you live down south, don't worry about it.  I've been in the Seoul area for over twenty years and I have never witnessed a storm.


  • Savant
  • The Legend

    • 2104

    • April 07, 2012, 11:35:31 pm
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2018, 01:12:37 pm »
Unless you live down south, don't worry about it.  I've been in the Seoul area for over twenty years and I have never witnessed a storm.

I slept through the big storm of 2010. Didn't know the damage it caused until after I woke up and saw all the tree branches outside.


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2018, 02:13:45 pm »
It would be a really interesting study for someone to actually try to sue their employers over something like this here. I know it isn't done and that it would be an uphill battle, but based on what I've learned so far there ARE enough Korean laws in place that someone could make a circus out of the legal system over it.

All it would take is just one case with enough national attention to change the norm.
You need to prove damages and some substantial risk of injury beyond say, a normal icy/snowy/rainy day.

Sometimes it's a legitimate reason to not go into work. Other times, people are just looking for a justification (really an excuse) to not work. Without an official government warning, it's going to be hard to have standing. Just because your risk of injury goes from 10 in 100,000 to 14 in 100,000 or even a higher number, doesn't mean they're "endangering" you.

And as I said, just because the storm is over you, doesn't mean you're in danger if it's of the torrential rain rather than the branch-breaking storm variety.


  • CO2
  • Waygook Lord

    • 5146

    • March 02, 2015, 03:41:14 pm
    • Gunpo
    more
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2018, 02:18:07 pm »
It would be a really interesting study for someone to actually try to sue their employers over something like this here. I know it isn't done and that it would be an uphill battle, but based on what I've learned so far there ARE enough Korean laws in place that someone could make a circus out of the legal system over it.

All it would take is just one case with enough national attention to change the norm.
You need to prove damages and some substantial risk of injury beyond say, a normal icy/snowy/rainy day.

Sometimes it's a legitimate reason to not go into work. Other times, people are just looking for a justification (really an excuse) to not work. Without an official government warning, it's going to be hard to have standing. Just because your risk of injury goes from 10 in 100,000 to 14 in 100,000 or even a higher number, doesn't mean they're "endangering" you.

And as I said, just because the storm is over you, doesn't mean you're in danger if it's of the torrential rain rather than the branch-breaking storm variety.

If it's too dangerous for the kiddies, it's too dangerous for adults. It's not a test of skill, or a math quiz. Adults aren't any better at "surviving" a branch falling on them or being swept away by a flash flood.


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2018, 02:29:56 pm »
I was hoping thread could stay on just giving updates, instead of a debate about whether or not we should have to go to work...


  • oglop
  • The Legend

    • 3191

    • August 25, 2011, 07:24:54 pm
    • Seoul
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2018, 02:47:28 pm »
It would be a really interesting study for someone to actually try to sue their employers over something like this here. I know it isn't done and that it would be an uphill battle, but based on what I've learned so far there ARE enough Korean laws in place that someone could make a circus out of the legal system over it.

All it would take is just one case with enough national attention to change the norm.
You need to prove damages and some substantial risk of injury beyond say, a normal icy/snowy/rainy day.

Sometimes it's a legitimate reason to not go into work. Other times, people are just looking for a justification (really an excuse) to not work. Without an official government warning, it's going to be hard to have standing. Just because your risk of injury goes from 10 in 100,000 to 14 in 100,000 or even a higher number, doesn't mean they're "endangering" you.

And as I said, just because the storm is over you, doesn't mean you're in danger if it's of the torrential rain rather than the branch-breaking storm variety.

If it's too dangerous for the kiddies, it's too dangerous for adults. It's not a test of skill, or a math quiz. Adults aren't any better at "surviving" a branch falling on them or being swept away by a flash flood.
yes, that, and what are you supposed to do at work anyway? it's like a lifeguard being told to come to work when the pool is closed


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2917

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2018, 02:50:26 pm »
I was hoping thread could stay on just giving updates, instead of a debate about whether or not we should have to go to work...

Wishful thinking my friend.

It appears to be moving ever westward with each forecast update. It will give the south west corner and the west coast a bit of a battering but by then it looks like its going to be category 1 or even a tropical storm. If we are really lucky it might just completely skirt the west coast and move up the yellow sea. But i doubt it.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2018, 04:47:35 pm »
If it's too dangerous for the kiddies, it's too dangerous for adults. It's not a test of skill, or a math quiz. Adults aren't any better at "surviving" a branch falling on them or being swept away by a flash flood.
Depends on what schools they cancel it for. If they keep Unis and high schools open, then it's fine. If those are closed as well, then obviously you shouldn't have to come in. I think there is SOME level of difference between say, 1st graders and adults.

yes, that, and what are you supposed to do at work anyway? it's like a lifeguard being told to come to work when the pool is closed
Get some lesson planning done, grade some papers, make some materials, etc.

Look, there's legitimate safety concerns, Are branches and signs flying everywhere? Windows shattering? Wires down? Of course you should tell your school that you aren't doing it. But there's also people who are just desperate for any excuse not to go into work and start using stuff like this as a "right" not to go into work, when really it's just an excuse. Like, are you 100 miles from the eye and dealing with 40mph winds and a bunch of rain? Sorry, but you aren't in danger. You're just trying to slack off and get out of work.


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2018, 05:21:37 pm »
It would be a really interesting study for someone to actually try to sue their employers over something like this here. I know it isn't done and that it would be an uphill battle, but based on what I've learned so far there ARE enough Korean laws in place that someone could make a circus out of the legal system over it.

All it would take is just one case with enough national attention to change the norm.
You need to prove damages and some substantial risk of injury beyond say, a normal icy/snowy/rainy day.

Sometimes it's a legitimate reason to not go into work. Other times, people are just looking for a justification (really an excuse) to not work. Without an official government warning, it's going to be hard to have standing. Just because your risk of injury goes from 10 in 100,000 to 14 in 100,000 or even a higher number, doesn't mean they're "endangering" you.

And as I said, just because the storm is over you, doesn't mean you're in danger if it's of the torrential rain rather than the branch-breaking storm variety.

The thing is that they don't really have a standard that is enforced with consistency, and people have been subjected to unsafe conditions as a result. It shouldn't take someone getting hurt or dying before negligence is finally handled. The point is for prevention, and if a storm is deemed too dangerous for kids, even when they'd be under adult supervision (regardless of their ages), then it's too dangerous for adults, too. Just because something that could kill a kid might only maim an adult doesn't mean the adult has to subject him or herself to the conditions that could lead up to it, and, as others have said, whatever can kill a kid can usually kill an adult, too. Adults are just better at avoiding them.

The fact the some people only really care about getting a day off is irrelevant in cases where conditions are considered too unsafe or unpredictable for students to come to school.

The problem here is that bureacracy and hierarchy are superceding safety. That isn't going to change until the government is forced to deal with it. The court system is one method, and, in theory, the potential is there. But I'm not so sure how well it would work out in real life given that Samsung is still able to avoid taking responsibility for all of those cancer cases so far.

Would be interesting for me to see how they'd go about attempting to execute it here.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 06:49:59 pm by Chinguetti »


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2018, 07:05:06 am »
well it's starting to look like the center is going to go up the west coast then turn inland somewhere near Seoul as either a cat 1 typhoon or a strong tropical storm (typhoon strength is 65 knots)

here is the latest path and wind field's from the joint typhoon warning center
http://www.metoc.navy.mil/jtwc/products/wp2218.gif

If you are a weather geek here is the discussion
http://www.metoc.navy.mil/jtwc/products/wp2218prog.txt

my advice is just to take thursday off, tell your bosses your safety aint worth it. Winds of even half of typhoon strength can cause branches to fly around etc

here is some music to get you through it
https://youtu.be/Hq7i6f_s3Vg


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2018, 08:50:42 am »
The point is for prevention, and if a storm is deemed too dangerous for kids, even when they'd be under adult supervision (regardless of their ages), then it's too dangerous for adults, too.
There are a lot of things that are dangerous for 6 year old kids that aren't dangerous for adults or teens. The differences in cognitive and physical abilities are dramatic. It's why an adult is in zero danger unsupervised at the kiddie pool. It's why adults can play with matches and use big scissors.

If high schools and universities are still open, then go in. If not, then don't.

Until it hits and we get a sense of conditions, any claims of "not safe" are premature.


  • JVPrice
  • Expert Waygook

    • 816

    • August 29, 2017, 10:26:13 am
    • Tampa, FL
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2018, 08:55:12 am »
There are a lot of things that are dangerous for 6 year old kids that aren't dangerous for adults or teens. The differences in cognitive and physical abilities are dramatic. It's why an adult is in zero danger unsupervised at the kiddie pool. It's why adults can play with matches and use big scissors.

What exactly does that have to do with uncontrollable, natural disasters like typhoons?
The World Ends With You


  • JNM
  • The Legend

    • 4289

    • January 19, 2015, 10:16:48 am
    • Seoul, South Korea
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2018, 09:25:39 am »
Weather related cancelations are kind of arbitrary everywhere.

Years ago, I worked at the Bruce Nuclear Power Development in Canada.  The rule there was that if the roads were closed, you were not expected to come to work.  One winter there were 10 such says, since highways 21 and 9 were frequently closed.

Going back a little farther, there were some days in Gander, Newfoundland when I had to go to school and my RCAF father got a storm day.  I guess nobody attacks Canada in the winter!


  • T.J.
  • Veteran

    • 186

    • June 09, 2011, 11:07:16 am
    • 서울 은평구 연신내
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2018, 09:30:29 am »
Looks like itís going to hit late on Thursday and pass through Seoul in the early morning 3 am. If that holds then schools will probably not be affected.
"An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock."

-Will Rogers


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2018, 09:39:29 am »
Quote
Weather related cancelations are kind of arbitrary everywhere.

When I lived in Austin, people went berserk one year when the local school district failed to cancel school after a big ice storm (which did, admittedly, result in a number of car crashes the following morning). So the district became notoriously overcautious and cancelled school like four more times that year, all for "disasters" that never materialized. Ice storms that turned to gentle rain before hitting the ground, flood warnings for days that turned out to be 100% precipitation-free. Of course, the parents exploded every time and acted as if the freakout that prompted all this had never happened.


  • alex_ru
  • Waygookin

    • 21

    • April 08, 2015, 11:48:13 am
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2018, 09:47:02 am »
I was hoping thread could stay on just giving updates, instead of a debate about whether or not we should have to go to work...

If you want weather updates go and look at any of the links others have posted. I'm here because I want a day off!


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2018, 09:52:14 am »
The point is for prevention, and if a storm is deemed too dangerous for kids, even when they'd be under adult supervision (regardless of their ages), then it's too dangerous for adults, too.
There are a lot of things that are dangerous for 6 year old kids that aren't dangerous for adults or teens. The differences in cognitive and physical abilities are dramatic. It's why an adult is in zero danger unsupervised at the kiddie pool. It's why adults can play with matches and use big scissors.

If high schools and universities are still open, then go in. If not, then don't.

Until it hits and we get a sense of conditions, any claims of "not safe" are premature.

Again, you're comparing dramatically different conditions and situations, both with and without adult supervision.

Storms are non-negotiable. What's considered unsafe travel conditions for kids are also unsafe for adults. Just because adults are more adept at navigating through them doesn't make it any safer for them. It just means that they're more capable of dealing with it.

I wouldn't ask an adult to walk a tight rope across the Grand Canyon just because they'd be more likely to do it vs. a kid.

If school is canceled due to unsafe or unpredictable weather conditions, the same standard should be applied for both students and staff/faculty until AFTER the conditions either become known or safe. They shouldn't subject people, regardless of their ages, to potentially dangerous conditions just because they don't know if they will or won't be.

That's what standby status is for. People are told to stay safe but with communications open -- so that if conditions become known AND safe for travel, they can come in.

But requiring people to come in before that is both illogical and negligent.


  • zola
  • The Legend

    • 2917

    • September 30, 2012, 06:56:11 am
    • Korea
Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2018, 09:54:54 am »
illogical and negligent.
Coincidentally, that is Koreas national motto.
Kpip! - Martin 2018


Re: Typhoon Soulik could make Wednesday and Thursday interesting
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2018, 10:14:05 am »
Storms are non-negotiable. What's considered unsafe travel conditions for kids are also unsafe for adults. Just because adults are more adept at navigating through them doesn't make it any safer for them. It just means that they're more capable of dealing with it.
That makes it safer- More adept, more experience, more awareness, better judgment, greater physical control and coordination, etc.

Quote
I wouldn't ask an adult to walk a tight rope across the Grand Canyon just because they'd be more likely to do it vs. a kid.
As I said, if it's high winds and branches everywhere are flying, then don't go into work. If it's just heavy rain and 40mph winds, bring an extra pair of clothes and stop looking for an excuse to not go into work.

Quote
If school is canceled due to unsafe or unpredictable weather conditions, the same standard should be applied for both students and staff/faculty until AFTER the conditions either become known or safe. They shouldn't subject people, regardless of their ages, to potentially dangerous conditions just because they don't know if they will or won't be.

As I said, if elementary schools are canceled but universities and high schools are not, then teachers should still go in. Adults are capable of handling more dangerous conditions than kids. There's a world of difference between a 6-year old first grader and a 35 year old adult.

Quote
That's what standby status is for. People are told to stay safe but with communications open -- so that if conditions become known AND safe for travel, they can come in.

You have to give people notice. There's a deadline for school to be canceled or not and I think it's something like 2 hours before work begins because of the logistics involved.

As I said, if it's legitimately dangerous, I have no problem with people telling their school to take a hike. HOWEVER, experience with employees and so called "danger" has taught me that 9/10 times, they're just looking for an excuse not to go to work. Have a friend offer them a shag or a free bag of weed and suddenly that concern about danger goes right out the window.